[X] My Assistant

I just bought IA3 not too long ago; what a waste of money... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

T_Starrk didn't have IA either, iirc. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

He does.

I don't have IA1 either because I don't see a real benefit in having 1 spell on autocast with a 10% cost reduction. Probably more mp efficient to just try get channeling for Regen/Heartseeker with the spell I'd put in IA1.

I also don't really see a point in IA until you can get probably 3 right off the bat. The mp savings vs cost just isn't there; probably cheaper to just toss more levels into Pack Rat and use more MP pots.

Edit: And if that was sarcasm, whoosh.... right over my head even with the cat.

Also IA1 and IA2 actually don't save a whole lot of MP, of at all, if you cast all your buff in Spirit Stance, which reduce the mana cost a solid 50% of the MP cost the entire length of the buff. Whereas, IA uses up (1-x)(a*0.5+(1-a)) = (1-x)(1-0.5*a), of the original mana cost, where a is the percentage of time you spend in Spirit Stance, x is the save reduction percentage.

Replace x with 0.2 for IA2, and you got (1-0.2)(1-0.5*a) = 0.8-0.4a of the original mana cost.
So IA2 saves you 0.5-(0,8-0.4a) = 0.4a-0.3, for that number to be positive, a > 0.75, that is, you have to spend 75% of the time in Spirit Stance.

Now assuming that you gain an average of (10+5)/2=7.5 overcharge per turn if you don't miss any attack, or never stop attacking to recast buff, and you lose 10 overcharge per turn for spirit stance, you'd be in spirit stance 75% of the time.

So even if you're attacking non stop, you don't even save any mana. In realistic scenario where you have to cast buff and heal, and you miss your attack, you actually use more mana with IA.

There's 2 exception though, mage and 1H

Mages don't use Spirit Stance, so IA2 will always use 80% of your original mana cost, saving 20%

1H gains more overcharge, at a rate of (20+10)/2 = 15 overcharge per turn. Ideally, you'd be spending 100% (or close to it) of your time in Spirit Stance. That would save you 0.4*1-0.3=0.1=10% the mana cost. Of course you'd be saving less if you stop your attack to cast buffs

so basically unless you're a mage or 1H, IA2 is not gonna help you much

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 17 2014, 11:11

Spirit stance reduces mana costs by 25% ,not 50%.

Spirit stance reduces mana costs by 25% ,not 50%.

OMG when was it changed O_o
Well I retract my tl;dr, IA2 saves a lot. Go buy it xD

(sneakily hoarding hath)

IA1 -> haste, there's no better buff than more speed

this. haste also makes all the other IA slots cheaper to run because it increases the duration of all buffs.

That's of course if you dont already have Pack Rat maxed. Which I really hope a lvl 300+ does. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

Nope.

The following are just my thoughts but feel free to dispute it.

My play time is limited so I just aim to do the best bang for the buck... which is fast clears of arena. I don't have 23+ LotD yet so there's not really any point to trying to push PFUDOR on everything either as I doubt legendaries will drop until I've got a higher LotD level. Although that said, I do PFUDOR on the short arenas as its not much of a time difference anyways compared to easier difficulties. So I just generally clear everything on a setting which is fast/efficient on at least Hell difficulty so I don't get nerfed drop rates.

And to do that, I don't need a maxed pack rat as a melee build.

Sure, there's situations where it'd certainly be nice to have...
Old IW (for which I would have loved more Pack Rat when grinding up my weapon)
Hellfest which just seems like an absolute insane grind at 1000 rounds.
Maybe some of the school girl runs at high difficulty or going after FRD

New IW doesn't seem to need it as much compared to before with its shortened length. There's only a few rounds near the end where you'll just need to dig down and mash cure/weaken (where your MP expenditure/round goes through the roof) compared to maybe 20+ rounds before where every round eats a ton of MP.

I'll max it out eventually to try Hellfest but I don't see the need right now (and there's no way I could do a Hellfest in any sort of reasonable amount of time either). I'd rather save the credits for more LotD levels or try and get a full pony set which I could use immediately and full time instead of situationally.

I'm reporting on my DwD Nintendo attempt earlier today. I spammed Iris Strike + Backstab on boss as much as possible, as Cats Lover suggested. And I breezed through the first 100 round with only 4 mana pots and 2 spirit used. The rest of the run suddenly became a lot harder and I went through 6 mana pot in in 30 rounds, so I ended up fleeing.

I haven't tried using Weaken/Silence yet, so I will do it in my next attempt. which one should I use (I don't think I can afford the cost of both), and what should I target, all 3 of the schoolgirls, or just the one I'm gonna kill?

how much % of crit would 75 strength give?

According to formulas in the wiki(if they are not outdated) first 75 points of ST(if you have ST 75 and DX 0) give you ~1% crit chance from attributes. The more ST and DX you already have, the less benefit you receive from the same amount of added stats. If I assume that at your level you have (ST/2+DX) around 500 then adding 75 more points of st will give you about 0.75% crit chance. But you also receive crit chance from base and from equipment, and all crit chances are added multiplicatively, so actual increase in crit chance will be even less. I am quite sure in my calculations but let actual veterans confirm that wiki is true.

This post has been edited by Paarfi: Jan 17 2014, 12:53

I am a level 140 2hand/heavy armor.

I have been using the same superior mace of slaughter since around level 40~ and just found what MAY be an upgrade (I haven't gotten the whole HV math shit down yet) it is a Superior Etheral Estoc of Balance.

Current weapon, stats scaled to level 140 (base in brackets)

Superior Mace of Slaughter
Two-handed Weapon Level 0 128 / 289
Stunned: 30% chance - 4 turns
+560 Crushing Damage (59.57)
Attack Accuracy+6.71% (6.53%)
Attack Crit Chance+6.15% (5.75)
Burden+21.70
Interference+9.10
Primary Attributes
Dexterity +23.25 (4.73)
Upgrades and Enchantments
None

Possible upgrade, scaled to level 140 (base in brackets)

Superior Ethereal Estoc of Balance
Two-handed Weapon Level 0 0 / 284
Penetrated Armor: 22% chance - 6 turns
+391 Void Damage (41.62)
Void Strike
Attack Accuracy+12.94% (12.58%)
Attack Crit Chance+10.76% (10.05%)
Primary Attributes
Dexterity +9.94 (2.02)
Agility +8.46 (1.72)
Upgrades and Enchantments
None

Basically my question is what is better? I know I'll miss the mace stun and raw damage, but does void damage and armor pen make up for it enough?

This post has been edited by tailor64: Jan 17 2014, 12:54

I am a level 140 2hand/heavy armor.

I have been using the same superior mace of slaughter since around level 40~ and just found what MAY be an upgrade (I haven't gotten the whole HV math shit down yet) it is a Superior Etheral Estoc of Balance.

Current weapon, stats scaled to level 140 (base in brackets)
Basically my question is what is better? I know I'll miss the mace stun and raw damage, but does void damage and armor pen make up for it enough?

You can try the estoc out, see how much damage bonus you get but it shouldn't really be worth it until level ~200 as that is when the mitigation of mobs get out of hand (for example, at my level I hit mobs for 2k without PA and 5K with 3 stacks of it), but at your level, the bonus damage you gain probably isn't worth giving up stun.

This post has been edited by m118w11: Jan 17 2014, 13:24

btw, is there an app that displays what the stats will become when i change an equip?
the only one i found is a bit outdated...

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 17 2014, 13:41

I am a level 140 2hand/heavy armor.

I have been using the same superior mace of slaughter since around level 40~ and just found what MAY be an upgrade (I haven't gotten the whole HV math shit down yet) it is a Superior Etheral Estoc of Balance.

Current weapon, stats scaled to level 140 (base in brackets)

Superior Mace of Slaughter
Two-handed Weapon Level 0 128 / 289
Stunned: 30% chance - 4 turns
+560 Crushing Damage (59.57)
Attack Accuracy+6.71% (6.53%)
Attack Crit Chance+6.15% (5.75)
Burden+21.70
Interference+9.10
Primary Attributes
Dexterity +23.25 (4.73)
Upgrades and Enchantments
None

Possible upgrade, scaled to level 140 (base in brackets)

Superior Ethereal Estoc of Balance
Two-handed Weapon Level 0 0 / 284
Penetrated Armor: 22% chance - 6 turns
+391 Void Damage (41.62)
Void Strike
Attack Accuracy+12.94% (12.58%)
Attack Crit Chance+10.76% (10.05%)
Primary Attributes
Dexterity +9.94 (2.02)
Agility +8.46 (1.72)
Upgrades and Enchantments
None

Basically my question is what is better? I know I'll miss the mace stun and raw damage, but does void damage and armor pen make up for it enough?

from my experience when switching styles, ethereal balance will always be better than non-prefix slaughter of the same quality in damage. The void damage increases damage by a lot, and crit chance can partially make up for the loss in damage. Less interference and burden can be very important, especially if you're wearing heavy. Of course ideally, you'd want an ethereal slaughter but that's not an option for you.

As for mace vs estoc, frankly it doesn't matter much at your level, since monsters haven't yet gotten enough pmi for PA to be useful, nor evade/parry for stun to become relevent. Longsword is actually the better choice in pre-200 level for its sheer damage, and the fixed damage dealt by bleeding.

So I'd say, go with the estoc.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 17 2014, 13:48

so aside from IA1 &2, is there really any Hath perks worth the Haths cost?

Crystarium perks, definitely.. Daemon duality for late-game/multi-equipment set forging.Tokenizer if you play more than arenas, strongly believe in RoB and have close to maxed trainings. MPV is just awesome.

I'm forgettting something....Oh, Resplendent Regeneration is probably better than IA1+2+3 for melee. Also, the hath perks for HP/MP are probably cheaper than more htan 50% of the rolls goy going your way in Iwing, and SP hath perk is one of the only ways to stop the spirit pot overflow, since you can't cast from spirit.

OMG when was it changed O_o
Well I retract my tl;dr, IA2 saves a lot. Go buy it xD

(sneakily hoarding hath)

Never, I believe. Spirit stance was changed to reduce mana cost in 0.64. (You can just feel the melees rejoicing, but apparently mages used spirit stance too much so it's magic damage bonus was removed).

This post has been edited by Lement: Jan 17 2014, 14:24

so aside from IA1 &2, is there really any Hath perks worth the Haths cost?

Source Nexus
Multi-Page Viewer
The Big Picture

Can't forget your main reason for being here, right?

Joking aside, Thinking Cap is good if you've maxed adept learner. Higher exp rate = Higher level = Higher chance of getting good drop = tons of profit if you're lucky. Other perks (like IA3/4, crystarium, Effluent Ether, Suffusive Spirit) would need a high level to make full use of their benefits

Joking aside, Thinking Cap is good if you've maxed adept learner. Higher exp rate = Higher level = Higher chance of getting good drop = tons of profit if you're lucky. Other perks (like IA3/4, crystarium, Effluent Ether, Suffusive Spirit) would need a high level to make full use of their benefits

What.

Leaving alone the fact that you should get Thinking Cap before maxing Adept Leaner at current hath prices...

Did you meant reach the level where you face Kodou Yuki faster(I think it is somewhere around 160 with IWBTH atm?), with having sunk 7.5m into those, to max the PL bonus to loot drop chance, or reaching the level 300 faster to do marathons on PFUDOR?

I'm sorry, I've never gotten this interest in leveling - in fact, as a mage I did my best to shy away from it as much as possible.

Granted, you geth higher pool, and stuff might scale now a bit more favorable to players. Stlll a notable investment, imho.

Source Nexus
Multi-Page Viewer
The Big Picture

Can't forget your main reason for being here, right?

Joking aside, Thinking Cap is good if you've maxed adept learner. Higher exp rate = Higher level = Higher chance of getting good drop = tons of profit if you're lucky. Other perks (like IA3/4, crystarium, Effluent Ether, Suffusive Spirit) would need a high level to make full use of their benefits

tbh, i found Source Nexus & Multi-Page Viewer a bit of a let down (especially when you consider the cost). at the end of the day, i just DL the whole damn thing and view it on my computer. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

i probably spend less than 100k GP on DL everything which is nothing.

I'm reporting on my DwD Nintendo attempt earlier today. I spammed Iris Strike + Backstab on boss as much as possible, as Cats Lover suggested. And I breezed through the first 100 round with only 4 mana pots and 2 spirit used. The rest of the run suddenly became a lot harder and I went through 6 mana pot in in 30 rounds, so I ended up fleeing.

I haven't tried using Weaken/Silence yet, so I will do it in my next attempt. which one should I use (I don't think I can afford the cost of both), and what should I target, all 3 of the schoolgirls, or just the one I'm gonna kill?

Assuming you're using a rapier in either/or hand, have you tried waiting for 3x PA on the bosses before using your skills? the increase in damage can be pretty substantial. Of course, if you Club/Rapier, you can try using focus (when enemy is stunned) to regain MP instead of mana pots. It'll just take longer. I haven't used weaken/silence in a long while, so no advice on that from me.

Edit: oh, and OFC really helps in the later rounds. It can clear all the normal mobs, allowing you to concentrate on the girls.

This post has been edited by Valkrey: Jan 17 2014, 15:20

What.

Leaving alone the fact that you should get Thinking Cap before maxing Adept Leaner at current hath prices...

Did you meant reach the level where you face Kodou Yuki faster(I think it is somewhere around 160 with IWBTH atm?), with having sunk 7.5m into those, to max the PL bonus to loot drop chance, or reaching the level 300 faster to do marathons on PFUDOR?

I'm sorry, I've never gotten this interest in leveling - in fact, as a mage I did my best to shy away from it as much as possible.

Granted, you geth higher pool, and stuff might scale now a bit more favorable to players. Stlll a notable investment, imho.

thinking cap adds 25% exp bonus, and it cost 250 hath => 10hath(~100k) for each 1% The last level of Adept learner costs only 50k ....

Well I'm a melee, and levels seem to improve my clearing speed. Frankly the only scalable things on custom monster that matter is HP (Chaos upgrade, like parry and evade, afaik, don't scale with level). We on the other hand, scale has our attack, crit, proficiency (ie. more attack and crit) from both our stats and equipments with our level. So I'd say we scale at least twice as fast as monster.

And wut you're a mage? I'm always under the impression that you're a melee. It's kinda funny, you made mousemelee for melee despite being a mage, and I made SpellSpam for mage despite being a melee O_o

And tbh, I don't consider any hath perk to be worth the investment, not even crystarium or IA. Trainings like LotD or Quartermaster are far more beneficial.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 17 2014, 15:19