[X] My Assistant

That should get you started.

Damn, thanks for the detailed reply. Things have changed a mighty lot since the old days, that's for sure. I'm pretty sad to see that 2H has no viability at higher levels (it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

At least it's pretty clear to me that the overflow of gear has reached the point of legendary or bust. That simplifies a lot - now I just have to look at mags+ and can not bother wasting time with lesser stuff besides incrementally building up my 'own' gear/sets. I did notice while looking around the WTS/WTB sections that gear that was practically unattainable without dumping huge chunks of credits way back then can even be found for free now.

Damn, thanks for the detailed reply. Things have changed a mighty lot since the old days, that's for sure. I'm pretty sad to see that 2H has no viability at higher levels (it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

At least it's pretty clear to me that the overflow of gear has reached the point of legendary or bust. That simplifies a lot - now I just have to look at mags+ and can not bother wasting time with lesser stuff besides incrementally building up my 'own' gear/sets. I did notice while looking around the WTS/WTB sections that gear that was practically unattainable without dumping huge chunks of credits way back then can even be found for free now.

don't forget: your old gear could be collectible obsoletes and worth credits!

short answer:
- don't bazaar Exquisite cotton/phase: salvage it for mid-grade cloth (sellable)

Thank you as well for the links. Interesting on salvaging for mid-cloth. I assumed mid-level mats were practically worth nothing since you can buy in shop for 1,000, or 900 with Coupon Clipper (meaning generally I'd expect it to be even cheaper) and Ex's look like they generally sell for around 900-1,200 to the bazaar. Oh wait...you probably get more than 1 mid-cloth from salvaging don't you?

don't forget: your old gear could be collectible obsoletes and worth credits!

I know I'm sitting on some weird nonsense that people for the most part won't want. Like this 4 PAB shield. Or a smattering of Kevlar/Gossamer/Shield class stuff. Some "Fine" quality things and some absolute trash daggers of battlecaster that I used to grind proficiencies with (get the feeling that doesn't work now). Probably sitting on several million credits worth of artifacts and trophies too.

This post has been edited by ravenfrost123: Dec 13 2017, 08:51

I agree with what the wiki apparently says for Ring of Blood. DW with a club + whatever is probably best. Club + wakizashi, or rapier + wakizashi can also be fine. I presume this advice is primarily for low level players who still need some slight effort to beat Ring of Blood. For the highest Rings of Blood, 1H may offer more survivability, but for most of them with just a few monsters, nothing beats DW club + whatever in both offense and defense.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Dec 13 2017, 09:22

(it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

The main point, especially in the 200-250 range I mentioned in which 2h drops off in viability, is due to that being when player-raised monsters typically have spirit attacks. Those hit very hard. So, basically, the environment you fight in suddently becomes way, way more dangerous. Heavy armor, particularly at those low-ish levels, is one of the cheapest/easiest ways to get enough durability to live through that. 1h style with a reasonably good shield offers the block stat which contributes to this overall durability.

Of note, plate armor is super cheap. You can bulk up on a ton of defensive stats very cheaply this route. Even low-tier power armor helps boost damage, while still giving a hefty chunk of durability.

Not getting killed lets you make progress towards the end and win.

2h (along with DW and Niten) would still work reasonably well, except they don't quite work as well in heavy armor the way 1h does. The big culprit is the burden stat. It reduces your crit chance, attack speed, and evade. Those other styles are hurt more by that than 1h is.

1h does suffer a little for the loss of crit. However, due to the counter attack mechanic, 1h is actually better with very low (0% is ideal) attack speed, so opponents take more attacks for you to block and parry and therefore counter attack. Similarly, the build favors very low (again, 0% is ideal) evade, because evade happens before block or parry, and does not trigger counter attack.

It is harder to get as much durability out of light armor as it is out of heavy armor. While most light armor is trash, shade armor of the shadowdancer, especially if it is also agile or savage prefixed, can be very expensive. So, budget-wise, it is way more economical and effective to get a set of plate armor, and work into power armor.

In addition to not dying as easily, 1h's counterattacks offer a pretty sizeable amount of damage.

Consider DW:
Main strike(100%)+void strike(50%)+elemental strike 1(25%) + elemental strike 2(25%)
Offhand(50%)+void strike(25%)+elemental strike 1(12.5%) + elemental strike 2(12.5%)

8 total strikes hitting the opponent from one click, all combines to about 300% of your main strike damage.

Consider 1h:
Main strike(100%)+void strike(50%)+elemental strike 1(25%)+ elemental strike 2(25%)
and up to three counters per round, at 50% main strike each.

4-7 strikes hitting the opponents from one click, all combining to 200%-350% of your main strike damage.

Add to that the fact that 1h gains overcharge from counter attacks which let it actually maintain spirit stance pretty much indefinitely in most situations, so double all that damage. So 400%-700% main strike damage. Though to be fair, DW can put spirit stance up too, but not indefinitely. So it can count some increase in damage due to that but not quite a full doubling.

There is also the increase to damage from Penetrated Armor from your rapier in either build, and DW gets slightly better benefit from that since counters usually hit non-penetrated targets while all 8 of DW's strikes do.

One of these days I plan to work out the numbers on 2h and Niten.

But that's why 1h isn't that slow.

The strategy in the wiki for Ring of Blood is... wrong.

as a generic rule of thumb, sure. many sections in wiki can be outdated/wrong. reason is that wiki is big (really big!) and it's hard to update all of it. add this to the fact that it was primarily edited by a lone person (who has many things to do apart that) or still a small group of persons...

this being said, yep. that paragraph needs a bit of reworking.

- don't bazaar Exquisite cotton/phase: salvage it for mid-grade cloth (sellable)

phases are generally worth more at bazaar. just saying.

(it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

because of the particular way 1H is implehemented in this game. see Cryo's post for more details. but yep, it's sort of an oddity.
also, it's not like 2H has no viability. sickentide displayed it quite recently. it's most that for such a build to work, it may require particular conditions which confine it to the rank of an oddity, rather than a mainstream style.

I assumed mid-level mats were practically worth nothing since you can buy in shop for 1,000, or 900 with Coupon Clipper (meaning generally I'd expect it to be even cheaper)

and at 350~500 c on auctons/WTS/WTB. jfyi.

Probably sitting on several million credits worth of artifacts and trophies too.

feel free to fire me a pm with the list for an evaluation. equips are fine too. refer to this page for a generic definition: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Obsolete_Items
and to my WTB for some additional items

rapier + wakizashi can also be fine.

confirmed.

nothing beats DW club + whatever in both offense and defense.

quite not. probably i didn't catch the glimpse of the style yet, but it seems to me it's weaker than both 1H and DW rapier/waki. or better: less safe, so more risky.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM, then slash him to death (because I use a shortsword and not a rapier), and once I get enough overcharge I just OFC everyone. And once FSM is dead, I turn back to Invisible Pink Unicorn, do the same, and then it's Real Life. Once all 3 of them are dead, the goddesses are already dead from the OFCs, and the 3 dragons are already either dead or almost dead.

Way faster and more efficient than DW, IMHO.

I highly recommend Imperil+BW instead of PA. BW is unpopular mostly because people don't know how to play it correctly.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM

last time i did it, i killed the tree, then fired a gum and all of three gods were either dead or almost dead before the gum expired. all the rest are pretty much mere punchbags in comparison. goddesses last to enjoy groping them as much as possible :3

though gums weren't as expensive as they currently are (they still were at 3k), so knowing that i can still end the quest without too trouble i wouldn't use it now.



btw, once you reach a level high enough you can even go there, just cast Regen and Heartseeker immediately, spirit stance as soon as possible, imperil as needed and whacking the critters indefinitely. a bit longer, but still effective.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM, then slash him to death (because I use a shortsword and not a rapier), and once I get enough overcharge I just OFC everyone. And once FSM is dead, I turn back to Invisible Pink Unicorn, do the same, and then it's Real Life. Once all 3 of them are dead, the goddesses are already dead from the OFCs, and the 3 dragons are already either dead or almost dead.

Way faster and more efficient than DW, IMHO.

I highly recommend Imperil+BW instead of PA. BW is unpopular mostly because people don't know how to play it correctly.

Seconded. Shortsword is really better compare to Rapier when you're fighting bosses. 1 action from the enemy mean you get 1 free hit with BW on. And you get higher ADB compare to Rapier so that's even more damage.

(◕‿◕) okay. I have a question! ٩(◕‿◕)۶

IW still beats my mage up... When you start forging your set it becomes comfortable to do IW or it will always keep itself somewhat hard requiring too much healing?

quite not. probably i didn't catch the glimpse of the style yet, but it seems to me it's weaker than both 1H and DW rapier/waki.

While I do think that DW club is a good style, for that particular sentence I was only referring to DW club on a very low level player in the lower Ring of Bloods only. In this case, say you are fighting Yuki Nagato all by herself, and she is hard for you. You cannot go wrong with DW club because you will just keep stunning her over and over, providing the best defense, and potentially the best offense.

Only multiple monsters can overcome the invincible stun wall of DW club.

Only multiple monsters can overcome the invincible stun wall of DW club.

A.K.A. pretty much everything else than the 2-3 first RoBs.

A.K.A. pretty much everything else than the 2-3 first RoBs.

and arenas. but it still remains that these two guys:
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showuser=805738
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showuser=497966
play with a club. axe + club and club + rapier respectively.

While it's an obvious conclusion when there is only 1 opponent monster, even when there are maybe 2~4 opponent monsters, DW club still falls into that category of both best offense and best defense. Your club targeting style can also play a role with multiple monsters. After 5+ monster mobs then rapier + wakizashi is clearly the best defensive DW.

(◕‿◕) okay. I have a question! ٩(◕‿◕)۶

IW still beats my mage up... When you start forging your set it becomes comfortable to do IW or it will always keep itself somewhat hard requiring too much healing?

yes, when your set is highly forged, you don't need scrolls anymore for the last rounds of IW. Until that day, use scrolls for the last 25 rounds. And infusion, of course.

because of the particular way 1H is implehemented in this game. see Cryo's post for more details. but yep, it's sort of an oddity.
also, it's not like 2H has no viability. sickentide displayed it quite recently. it's most that for such a build to work, it may require particular conditions which confine it to the rank of an oddity, rather than a mainstream style.

For the context of a new player lacking the funds and gear Sickentide has access to, I'd say the "popular" choice of putting the longsword down in favor of the rapier and shield is overall the best advice.

Top-end agile/savage shade of shadowdancer/fleet are "expensive." Roughly on par in price with good power armor, from observing auctions. Often they spike up into the ~1m range. This is prohibitively expensive for a new player who hasn't even unlocked DWD. Low-end shade armor just doesn't really get put on the market at all. Super and Kedama won't even bother putting shade armor of Negation with ~30% ADB, because they hardly ever draw up a bid for 50k.

Good quality 2-handers also have a really bizarre market presence: if they're top-tier, they're expensive. If they're not top-tier, they're trash and bazaar'd. If you're lucky, you'll find something mid-tier and useable in Decondolite's shop and/or FreeShop.

In contrast, popular stuff will be more of a presence on the market. Rapiers well below top-tier will still wind up in auctions because more people are buying them. Power armor of various grades will show up because people will often buy them.

I highly recommend Imperil+BW instead of PA. BW is unpopular mostly because people don't know how to play it correctly.

Well, I would argue there is a lot more overall going to that mentality than merely "don't know how to play."

I chose "popular" and "unpopular" in my advice not "viable/unviable" or "good/bad" for a reason. Other styles, like 2h, or other weapons, like shortsword, may well be incredibly good. But the bulk of the advice, particularly from the wiki, has clearly shaped the community's opinions.

Add to that, most players get themselves rather locked into certain choices. It takes a lot of resources to get your main weapon(s) and armor. From collecting the base pieces that are good to IW10 and forging. While it might be easy to get your hands on a very powerful shortsword, because they're unpopular, many people would question the decision to upgrade one, when it appears nearly all the advice says, "get a good rapier." The resources spent trying out a shortsword could be spent getting an even better rapier/power armor for example.

There are also a lot of players who have a language barrier. The wiki is written in English, and I can only imagine how well it translates to Chinese/Portuguese/etc. A concept like "get a rapier, it's good" is pretty easy to convey across translation I imagine. "Rapiers are good, but shortswords can be good, and here are some considerations on how you'd make the most of each" might be harder to convey through translation.

You have some players like, hc br who have really informative guides on the game, written in Chinese. I imagine that for a Chinese-only player, the way they get their advice and information on how best to play the game differs from mine and yours. The wiki and Ask the Experts thread are in English and Google Translate may be of some value, but then you have this player with all this advice in your own language. Maybe hc br gives great advice, or maybe he takes the "lazy" approach and says "get a rapier, it's good." If the latter, then you have a lot of Chinese players spending their credits like everyone else, but wanting good rapiers and entirely ignoring shortswords.

So, overall, there is a lot of miscommunication going on I feel. The most popular stuff is popular largely because a) it works (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) the more experienced users have tried it, and have more experience with it, and advise others to use it, and c) the absence of advice for other options gives the impression that it either won't work, won't work as well, or will be too hard or expensive to do compared to the popular route.

Complicate that with old/outdate/incorrect/opinion-based advice rather than facts and testing. And all for a game which is mostly easy, so not much motivation exists to go for the truth.

But the bulk of the advice, particularly from the wiki, has clearly shaped the community's opinions.

the other way around, actually. wiki has been modified to reflect players' opinions on the playstyles. because no matter what one may think, wiki is written by players who're trying to get a glimpse of the game (like me and you) and usually something is written only when it has been tested/discussed enough. or a reliable source has been provided.
personally i tend to trust Tenb's patch logs and sssss's data repositories, when they aren't level-dependant.

There are also a lot of players who have a language barrier. The wiki is written in English, and I can only imagine how well it translates to Chinese/Portuguese/etc.

i'm sorry for how rude i may appear here, but this is a problem of ours only until a certain extent. all over the world English is accepted as sort of an exchange language - and as per forum rules, we have to use at least that. this means that if meanwhile some other translation appears, then all the better.
but as users seeking for help in the forum or on wiki are part of a community, they should do a bit of effort and behave as such.


and btw, there are some localized versions and suggestions here and there. at times even outside of this site - this is particularly true for Chinese subcommunity.

You have some players like, hc br who have really informative guides on the game, written in Chinese.

the drawback is that hc br's WTS is sort of an extension of the Chinese thread. if i needed to read something in there for whatever reason, i'd need to call for a Chinese speaker and waiting for him/her/it to translate.
i'd like to keep such number of istances as low as possible, since it's me (and noni) who eventually have to moderate it - even if we don't know how to read it.
another problem is that if hc br went AFK, nobody would update his guides anymore. so people would continue to read potentially outdated infos. on the other hand, with a centralized, mono-language wiki we will have someone reporting mistakes, sooner or later.

So, overall, there is a lot of miscommunication going on I feel. The most popular stuff is popular largely because
a. it works
b. the more experienced users have tried it, and have more experience with it, and advise others to use it, and
c. the absence of advice for other options gives the impression that it either won't work, won't work as well, or will be too hard or expensive to do compared to the popular route.

i'd like to remind you another of the suggestion i give out to everyone who brings up this topic: what we suggest are only the most tested builds.

do we lack feedbacks about how the various builds perform? hell, yes! i mean, not even admin knows how, saying, Waki + Club performs in this meta, so according to the little infos we have we can only assume from math that it'd work better if it was Club + Waki at the very least because generally weapons with high ADB go on mainhand and weapons with high parry on offhand.
if people want to be of any help, please try a setup, build a bit of datas and put them up to discussion. in the worst case they will be pointed out their assumptions are wrong so the datas may be meaningless.

Complicate that with old/outdate/incorrect/opinion-based advice rather than facts and testing.

as i already said (today!) wiki is big and we cannot possibly cover all of it. not even wiki admins can, and they have way more tools than what me and you have.
currently we listen to people reporting what feels odd, speak about it to avoid for a mere opinion to be raised to universal suggestion and eventually fix it. of course, some of these are bypassed (ie: current version doesn't need to be discussed). if someone has a better idea to optimize the process or wants to read all the pages and report all the mistakes/imprecisions, i'm all ears. eyes. whatever...

I believe it is a good thing that some miscommunication due to language exists. It allows for different communities to develop who have different biases and opinions on what is good. Not everything we talk about here is fully agreed upon (and that is fine). For example some people here only like Protection and Juggernaut armors, while others here agree that Warding and Capacitor have their uses. Some people want to soulfuse everything and some people want to avoid soulfuse.

Just in case we are all mistaken about something, it helps that there are other language communities out there who understand properly, and vice versa.

Too much fighting ヾ( ￣O￣)ツ for something simple to fix

If X section of the wiki is wrong, or someone think that it is wrong, why not create a new thread, the "friendly ヽ(∀° )人( °∀)ノ and informative wiki revision discussion" to rewrite the text?

A new text can be made and edited to fit niceness standards (＠＾◡＾) and when it is done it can be presented to the proper EHWiki thread so someone with the editing powers can give the yes/no and if it receive a yes he copy+paste over the old text ....φ(・∀・*)

Add/fix information, allow whoever is not satisfied with the current standard to create/give input/discuss information and gives (I suppose the edition is kinda similar to other wiki websites?) almost no major work to the editor as it would be an entire subsection at once ( ^▽^)ψ__ instead of tiny little bits of info at a time (unlike the equipment range findings which must be a pain...), reduces or at least deflects the disharmony into another thread.

I'd certainly like to contribute to the wiki and general knowledge more than I already do, but I lack time for that.
It's been several weeks already that I promized I'd build an Excel to simulate the damage output against monsters and calculate the exact primary attributes of schoolgirls, yet today I still haven't even started.

I do have the edit rights on the wiki, and let me tell you that sometimes I feel shame when I have to correct/write info regarding some simple stuff that is widely assumed, yet no one never actually write it. Last time I had to write the actual buff of a staff's spellweaver potency level, even though I'm not mage (yet).

So be assured that there do are players who take a particulr inteest regarding what's written in the wiki. And we do talk sometimes about this or that page that is biased/obsolete/needs to be redone entirely. Except that we don't always have the time to actually do the damn job.