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Asked the Experts, For archive purposes only. Please use Ask the Expert! for questions |
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Sep 6 2017, 11:02
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Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Sep 6 2017, 08:42)  According to the Research for 1H thread, Butcher 5 for a particular player gave an effective 2.3% damage boost and Fatality 5 gave an effective 2.2% damage boost (3.8% for special skills and 0% for counter). Overpower 5 only gave an effective 1.3% damage boost due to counter stuns and overwhelming strikes but that's still not bad. Extrapolating the stuns away, Overpower should give at least 3.5% damage boost on other styles. Has anyone else done a similar comparison? Swift Strike is actually serving me well on this rapier. On DW I would consider Swift Strike 5 to give the full 10% speed boost. It doesn't get diluted like the other potencies. Butcher is diluted by your other sources of damage, Fatality is diluted depending upon your other crit stats, and Overpower is diluted depending upon enemy parry. The main problem with Swift Strike is that it's an imaginary boost to offense; it doesn't improve real world clear time. But for low level players who still need survivability, Swift Strike is good. I still need Haste, Absorb, and Shadow Veil to survive even with 1H (and I don't really need Spirit Shield yet). Normal heavy armor burdens Swift Strike down to 0% but with all legendary plate now I have some speed boost. If I could get a couple mithril the speed will be diluted comparably with the other potencies. For hard levels I can use featherweight shards which recovers the full speed boost (and temporarily makes my poor rapier into an ethereal). start looking for power armors. QUOTE(decondelite @ Sep 6 2017, 09:44)  No, his rapier is rather taking a direction that needs a damn amoiunt of overluck to be back to what a rapier's potencies should be. Yours has way better potencies, though the swift strike did a small stain on an almost-perfect potencies.
You're forgetting one essential thing in the calculations: critical damage cannot be risen by any other mean. If you want to raise your base damage, it can always be done by bindings of slaughter.
It's known that for 1H purposes the best potencies is F5B4. I don't know for DW though, but I'm pretty confident that butcher is in the bottom. Without making actual maths, I'd think Overpower comes first, Fatality comes second and Swift Strike comes third.
no, swift is currently at the bottom. only case in which you may want it, is when using 2H + FRD. as for his IW, i don't consider one or two levels of OP to be such a dramatic situation. but his wallet, if he wants to reforge it, his call. in case he wants to recycle it for DW, i suggest to keep though
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Sep 6 2017, 12:05
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
Posts: 3,307
Joined: 15-March 11

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Since his ethereal rapier has high stats and his level isn't too low, reforge is a decent option but at this point he should finish it and see what elemental strike he gets. He's actually in a better spot than I was at that point (Fat 5 and Swift 1). If he gets the dreaded Fire Strike he can always reforge then, right? Or salvage?
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Sep 6 2017, 12:08
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Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Sep 6 2017, 12:05)  Since his ethereal rapier has high stats and his level isn't too low, reforge is a decent option but at this point he should finish it and see what elemental strike he gets. He's actually in a better spot than I was at that point (Fat 5 and Swift 1). If he gets the dreaded Fire Strike he can always reforge then, right? Or salvage?
the influence of an elemental strike for a melee is quite relative, since it won't be a big part of his damage. in case he'll earn holy/dark strike he'll have an upper edge against SGs, otherwise he'll merely have to pair it with the proper spike shield. [edit]: he may forge one stat to unlock the next potency and give us something to chitchat about though (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) This post has been edited by Scremaz: Sep 6 2017, 12:09
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Sep 6 2017, 12:48
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Draw99Gray
Group: Members
Posts: 749
Joined: 10-January 16

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So, i sent the rapier i bought at super's auction to sabregimp for IW and returned with But5 Over4. It is no good? What steps should i take to maximize Overpower's total damage?
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Sep 6 2017, 13:32
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Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(Draw99Gray @ Sep 6 2017, 12:48)  So, i sent the rapier i bought at super's auction to sabregimp for IW and returned with But5 Over4. It is no good? What steps should i take to maximize Overpower's total damage? for 1H? for 1H you should've aimed for B5F4 or B4F5. one or two level of overpower may still be tolerated since they still do something, but 4 seem a bit of a waste to me - since overwhelming strikes has the same effect of overpower, just more powerful. for DW, it's fine.
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Sep 6 2017, 14:14
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jplshejeser
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 4,391
Joined: 24-August 15

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Sep 6 2017, 14:18
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Dk2017
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 281
Joined: 19-August 17

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Sep 6 2017, 14:26
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Ass Spanker
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 4,171
Joined: 25-July 12

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QUOTE(Dk2017 @ Sep 6 2017, 14:18)  I would say the shield. If you can afford a decent one and also the forging cost up to level 30-35 of blocking chance, it will boost your survival chance a lot. I think something around 36% base wouldn't take more than 300k in an auction.
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Sep 6 2017, 15:48
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Dk2017
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 281
Joined: 19-August 17

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QUOTE(as013 @ Sep 6 2017, 20:26)  I would say the shield. If you can afford a decent one and also the forging cost up to level 30-35 of blocking chance, it will boost your survival chance a lot. I think something around 36% base wouldn't take more than 300k in an auction.
Thanks, https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=209198this auction shd02 what price is woth to buy
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Sep 6 2017, 15:55
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Ass Spanker
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 4,171
Joined: 25-July 12

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QUOTE(Dk2017 @ Sep 6 2017, 15:48)  Warding and has agility. Not many people will be interested. Just be aware of other low level players who are also desperate for a Force shield. I don't think it's worth more than several hundred k. This post has been edited by as013: Sep 6 2017, 15:55
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Sep 6 2017, 16:04
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Uncle Stu
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 9,899
Joined: 4-February 12

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QUOTE(Dk2017 @ Sep 6 2017, 15:48)  I would say draw the line at 300k max.
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Sep 6 2017, 16:05
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Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(Goldage @ Sep 6 2017, 15:49)  mind that ? means it's not fully disclosed yet. uncertainty may be in the order of 100c~1k (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)
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Sep 6 2017, 16:54
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CPUAMD
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 2,730
Joined: 24-April 15

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QUOTE(Scremaz @ Sep 6 2017, 23:05)  mind that ? means it's not fully disclosed yet. uncertainty may be in the order of 100c~1k (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif) Anyway, I do not intend to consume 60m for the Assimilator. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)
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Sep 6 2017, 21:25
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ALL_MIGHT
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 1,548
Joined: 14-October 16

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QUOTE(Scremaz @ Sep 6 2017, 17:02)  for 1H? for 1H you should've aimed for B5F4 or B4F5. one or two level of overpower may still be tolerated since they still do something, but 4 seem a bit of a waste to me - since overwhelming strikes has the same effect of overpower, just more powerful.
for DW, it's fine.
overpower reached 2 (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) This post has been edited by ALL_MIGHT: Sep 6 2017, 21:26
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Sep 6 2017, 22:33
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Sapo84
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,332
Joined: 14-June 09

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Sep 6 2017, 08:42)  According to the Research for 1H thread, Butcher 5 for a particular player gave an effective 2.3% damage boost and Fatality 5 gave an effective 2.2% damage boost (3.8% for special skills and 0% for counter). Overpower 5 only gave an effective 1.3% damage boost due to counter stuns and overwhelming strikes but that's still not bad. I would not assume Overpower benefit is really 1.3% for the following reasons: - Monsters chaosing have increased in the last 2 years (even more true after the last update where every upgrade increases the gift factor), the parry rate is probably visibly higher, I would guess easily 10% higher, which would already increase the effect from Overpower to 1.44%
- Parried hits don't build OC so even assuming that bonus OC from counter-attacks is always gained it increases OC gain by 1.44/2%, in a real scenario it's probably a bit less than 1% more OC gained, so it may fasten the usage of OFC. Not very significant but still not bad.
- Parried hits don't inflict PA so Overpower increases the possibility of stacking PAs on monsters. Still not very significant but far from bad
tl;dr: I personally rate Overpower only slightly lower than fatality for 1H (butcher is imho the undisputed best potency since it's the winner in Research for 1H and has by far the best sinergy with OFC since crits on OFC are completely useless apart from bosses/SGs), it's a good potency for 1H and the only potency you really want maxed for DW. If you want to switch between 1H and DW it's fantastic, still good for 1H. I would take 3 Overpower over a single swift strike.
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Sep 6 2017, 22:45
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Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07

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QUOTE(Sapo84 @ Sep 6 2017, 22:33)  the only potency you really want maxed for DW.
i'm not so sure. a DW Shade build has a higher Crit chance than 1H (+15~20 points, especially if offhand is waki and armors are shadowdancer). maxing (or almost) fatality may have a better return. in the doubt, i'd go for F5O4 on offhand and a combo of Butcher, Fatality and Overpower on mainhand (and actually i did it: B4 F3 O2 (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )
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Sep 6 2017, 23:06
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Sapo84
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,332
Joined: 14-June 09

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QUOTE(Scremaz @ Sep 6 2017, 22:45)  i'm not so sure. a DW Shade build has a higher Crit chance than 1H (+15~20 points, especially if offhand is waki and armors are shadowdancer). maxing (or almost) fatality may have a better return.
When parry chance is 20% or possibly more (last time I checked resist chance was higher than 20%, I assume it's the same for parry) 20% counter-resist is 4% more damage, 4% more OC gained and 4% more PAs. Edit: 5%, thanks BlueWaterSplash10% crit bonus, even with 0.65 crit chance is (0.65X0.1X100) is 6.5% damage, then you have to substract strikes, since strikes don't crits. Edit: Actually it would be (0.65 X (FAT5 crit bonus / fat 0 crit bonus) X 100) so even less.Given that strikes are a big part of the damage dealt (strikes do 50% of normal attacks) good luck staying above 4% damage, and good luck for compensating for the loss in OC and PAs. Just like penetrator for mages I see no reasons not to go for OP10 with DW, unless you use a club. This post has been edited by Sapo84: Sep 6 2017, 23:51
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