[X] My Assistant

Lattie, i think you should set the script to ignore any edits in the last 36 hours or so, thus post-edited bids at the time are valid (no easy cancelling). It prevents confusion & encourages people to be careful near the end time.

*むしゃむしゃ...
世柄が平和だ。

everyone, calm down. here we are merely discussing what superlatanium *could* do in order to bring this thing to a (hopefully) clear end.

he wasn't even forced to do this (so we aren't even saying what he *should* do - he could've merely announced his decision (whatever it may have been), so i guess he did it just to be as transparent as possible.


so, out of respect for this, i invite all people involved to speak as politely as possible. if they have something to say between each other, that's what PMs are there for.

as for people not involved, feel free to voice your opinions, but still i a polite way.

Hmm, you try to mixed things up. The situation is easy to understand.
1) WM bid 280m
2) BJ bid 300m and edited later
3) WM bid 309m but didn't see the edited post.
4) WM see it and want to roll back if it's possible.
Isn't it up to dealer? (seller, auctioneer, buyer)
This is the current problem. For the change in the system it's can be discuss and improve it later to prevent the situation.
I don't get your point. You come with angry. You said the money isn't problem why are you so strict with it?

This one may answer.
no matter what, it will restart.

Let's resolve the matter. Is there anything to resolve? I suggest the following:

If you want anything: please state your claim here. And the main reason why you believe that your claim is just.

Then I suggest that Superlatanium and our moderator evaluate all claims and make final decision.

If there is no one who wants anything, I think enough has been said. And the auctioneer will make final decision on any changes to his system.

And everybody: have a nice day.

Then I suggest that Superlatanium and our moderator evaluate all claims and make final decision.

btw, here i'm just checking things don't escalate too much - and eventually moderate discussion a bit.

i was pointed out this discussion was starting a few hours ago, but i noted the current auctioneers are worth a bit of trust so i think i'll be fine with latanium's decision...

This one may answer.
no matter what, it will restart.

Why you still annoying?
You treated ppl rude and still no word.

Current:

I don't know for sure what everyone was thinking back then, but it is true that
(*) the situation was confusing, due to the post edit
(*) I failed to reply to morineko in time
Maybe he was trying to wait to see what I would say before bidding again. (he wanted to be sure of the next minimum valid bid? minimum increment is a lot of credits) Maybe he accidentally missed the deadline, I don't know. He should have shown his full intention to bid earlier, but many people made mistakes in the situation. Miscommunication was the problem, and as that's my responsibility, I take part of the blame.

Now that everyone understands everyone else, and understands the plan, we can restart, and we will see a fair result now that communication is not a problem.

If the system has the problem I offered a solution to do-over bidding. Isn't it fair?

More than fair. Thank you very much for being willing to restart.

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I don't know what's going to happen, but just my opinion: if someone wants to bid on it, bid because you want the item, and not to protect reputation invested in this issue.

[Private Auction] Peerless Savage Power Gauntlets of Slaughter

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Future/system:

then we moved into this thread, and discussed about "how to properly handle the exceptions", for the auctions in future.
how will it go if the "bid price rolled back" becomes a practice?
the last time I met was 17m rolled to 16.483m, this time I saw 309m to 280m.
will this be used intentionally by someone knows the mechanic in future? hopes not.

(*) The situation is extremely rare; as we can see, this is the first time it's been discussed.
(*) For this to be "exploited", the highest bidder and the second highest bidder must secretly collude. But if they're colluding in the first place, the final sale price is already unfair, and a very rare bid rollback possibility won't be a factor.
(*) Here, Waifu's bid was initially rolled back because it was obviously a mistake to bid over himself. Sure, I (initially) allowed him to go with 280m rather than 309m, but the final bidder can ensure they pay the lower amount simply by not making the mistake in the first place; no collusion or maliciousness required.

Isn't it up to dealer? (seller, auctioneer, buyer)
This is the current problem. For the change in the system it's can be discuss and improve it later to prevent the situation.

Yes, the problem there was me, not the system; at the end, if I had responded instantly (rather than an hour later) when I saw morineko had a problem with my decision (to rollback to 280m final price) because he wanted to bid (288.4m - 318.27m), I would have restarted the 15 minute countdown, and things would have been resolved without issue.

Lattie, i think you should set the script to ignore any edits in the last 36 hours or so, thus post-edited bids at the time are valid (no easy cancelling). It prevents confusion & encourages people to be careful near the end time.

People frequently enough mistype near the end, and I want to let them fix it on their own. If I make it more strict like you suggest, I will get tons of PMs at end time and have to fiddle with the database during the most crucial time, which I very much want to avoid. It will encourage people to be more careful, but many will still make mistakes, and I don't want to lock people into mistakes they fix immediately. It's not worth the headaches it would cause.

I added a feature that lets you submit proxy bids without going through the not-entirely-quick Update process. Your proxy bid will be saved, but it won't be displayed on the thread or the logs until the next Update. This will help anyone who wants to submit more than one bid and doesn't want to wait a bunch of seconds between each one.

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In response to a question via PM, I want to clarify something:

If someone accidentally bids over themselves, they should edit their post, invalidating the bid, even if it's during the last minutes of an auction, like others do when they mistype late. If it appears to be obviously unintentional or a mistake (like what happened here), I will be inclined to put the post on the ignore list once I notice it. Someone who legitimately wants to increase their own bid would do well to add "yes, I want to bid over myself" or something to make it perfectly clear.

Ultimately this sort of thing has to be done on a case-by-case basis, and we have to use our best subjective judgement when it's not certain, but it's an incredibly rare situation so I don't consider it a problem to worry about.

Things have been working well, so I might experiment with implementing something to cut down on snipers

I want to start this and see how it goes.

Currently, there isn't a whole lot of incentive to bid early unless someone's not going to be around at auction end time. Users can proxy bid early and forget, but it also informs all other bidders of your serious intent to win the item, and gives them all time to see it and think and bid against you. Waiting until the very end denies your opponents this opportunity, and also gives you the chance of winning due to your opponent(s) missing the 15 minute extension deadline (or due to your opponent(s) missing their chance to bid over you in the last hour, or something similar).

Some people who participate think this, and to counter them, others have adopted the same strategy. As a result, after a lull of a day or two, there's a big pileup during the last couple hours, and especially during the last few minutes - and the average participant is not better off as a result, compared to if everyone bid as soon as they decided to try for an item. I think it's quite an inconvenience, on this very international forum, for everyone to be slightly incentivized to be online at the exact same end time. It is a coordination failure, and as the auctioneer, I'm probably the only one who can really try to resolve it.

I made graphics of the bid times. They're nice to look at and give a better overall sense of what we're dealing with. The top number beside each user on the right is the sum total time they've been winning the item.
[reasoningtheory.net] Last week's, [reasoningtheory.net] this week's, [reasoningtheory.net] earlier (a bit broken), others to come later

This is my idea. Once someone decides there's an item they want to win, they should bid early and consistently if they get outbid. If they don't, if they wait until the last few hours or minutes to show their first intent to bid seriously, they are noticeably inconveniencing other potential contenders. I think that they should be penalized, and that those who bid in good faith earlier should be rewarded, because they are being courteous to other bidders.

Currently, the auctions last a couple days and change, but after the beginning, often what's seen is a lull of a day or so during which there's little to no activity, when many are (I presume) simply waiting for closer to the end to show their true hand. It would be nicer if more people used the time allotted to test their mettle. (On a similar vein, in order to be fairest for all time zones, I should make sure the auction starts Wed. around the same time it ends Sat, 14:00)


What do you think? Any change to the rules will come after the end of next week's at the earliest.

It's the main reason I just quit dealing with the auctions.
To be honest Super, I've even been sniped by "you".

But I really don't think there's a way to penalize or reward.
And if someone jumps on a 20m piece with 50k at the beginning of the auction...
Is that a penalty or a reward?

@Superlatanium

and to counter them, others have adopted the same strategy.

It's true. it is real cause of concern and i also felt it.
keep it up, you might find a genuine solution of this issue. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

time zones,

Please , please do it, it is really hard for me to participate at end moments of auction(as per the time you have selected at the moment)
(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

But I really don't think there's a way to penalize or reward.

The auctioneer can give rewards or fees as long as they're clearly stated in the rules. One possibility is, for example, if someone's been winning an item for a sum total of only 20 minutes by 14:00 Saturday, a fee of 8% or so could be added. Or, if someone's been winning an item for at least 50% of the auction duration, that could be be enough to qualify for the maximum discount (eg 8%).

Ideally, in the long run, any changes would be revenue-neutral to how things work currently. This isn't for my profit; for a while I'll probably donate all fees to the seller and pay all discounts myself while people get used to it.

And if someone jumps on a 20m piece with 50k at the beginning of the auction...
Is that a penalty or a reward?

It's a bit difficult to determine how much an equip will go for. Even given identical stats, end bid variance is pretty high for higher value items. I would want to count a winning bid as a winning bid for as long as it lasts, even if the end bid will surely be an order of magnitude higher. People will be incentivized to bid as soon as they understand how much they value an item, so even if A bids 50k, if the item is truly worth a good amount, another user will very likely bid more within an hour.

(actually, manually bidding, A would probably be best off early bidding an amount moderately less than the amount they expect the second highest bidder would be willing to pay, which is probably far higher than 50k. The higher A's initial bid, the longer his bid will remain before someone comes who wants to bid more. Some users might start bidding semi-serious amounts and completely avoid obvious low-balls.)

what if I want something but I'm able to get the required amount only a few hours before the end of the auction?

what if I want something but I'm able to get the required amount only a few hours before the end of the auction?

The time that you pay has never really been an issue; I've never cared whether someone pays their COD a day or a week later. For low-value items, active players will probably earn enough to pay for them in a day or two. For high-value items, if you really really want something and know how much you value it, you can almost always get a loan from someone. I think selling a high-value item of your own just in time to compete in the last hours for a high-value item in an auction is a pretty rare occurrence. Worst case, just consider that you've missed it, and wait for another to come around.

Still, it is still a small disadvantage of weighing total bid time.

This is great for me to know, thanks. For me, anything more than 300k is high value, as I've rarely had more in my pocket. On average I have under 200k. I tend to build up what I can before auction, and spend when auction ends or there is nothing I can get. The only thing I ever have of value are energy drinks.

However, I still have a nightmare. What if I won an auction and then I accidentally spilled all my energy drinks. I would be doomed. Please, don't kill me.

I associate that with the original exp/rest system design in WoW.

Notifications are bugged. I haven't received neither a forum PM nor a MoogleMail.
I haven't have bid any higher anyway...

Until bids are anonymous it doesn't solve the problem of " (early bidding) ... informs all other bidders of your serious intent to win the item, and gives them all time to see it and think and bid against you. " However, this arrangement is welcome to disincentivise the initial bids in overtime (which is very bad faith imo). The problem isn't even that the above problem occurs, it's the perceived risk of it happening.

Rewards earlier bidders is good but punish low-bid-time bidders is kind of…… Just in case,what if I don't have many time to check auctions?Like I've check auction twice a day or only once at night and overbid an item at that time,after my bid a player with lots of time on forums overbid it and he'll have much longer bid time.I can get any thing I want with about 30 minutes a week at Sat in each auction in past,but now I have to check it much more often if I don't want to pay that *sniper* fee.
Also I can put my final line on but that can make me pay 20m for an equipment that no one else will pay more than 5m.It's hard to caculate values on auction.
Not everyone can check forums at work,punishes on this can be unfair to those with less time on hv.

Yes, pretty much leftover hunter killer in the sewer.