[X] My Assistant

After playing a bit longer and actually trying out Spirit Mode, I guess it just boils down to my not finding making a decision between a sustained damage increase or burst damage enjoyable. The skills are a great addition and one I've been waiting for since forever ago, but the implementation and cost mechanism seem half-baked.

Is there any reason why an offensive skill should take all our OC? I'd rather it just take a regularly quantified amount of either OC or SP (the latter makes the most sense design wise) and do away with the damage boost from taking all of the OC. It doesn't seem to add anything to the playstyle, as buktore pointed out, but rather makes it the same as it was before, in a way. And more often than not, this is a good thing, but you've added something to the "Melee Class" that is incredibly important, and we should have to make a choice on whether to use a skill or not, but if it's between burst damage and a sustained damage increase...

Clearly the latter wins a good portion of the time.

I see a few people still at it... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) ... Well... I'll have to admitted, bitching is just too fun. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
::A little suggestion to Tenb::

People already asked for no 'spirit attack' type skill. My suggestion is to make skills that supplement the fighting style, not enhancing the existing capabilities of the style.

Shatter Strike is a pretty good skill, I'll admitted. But such skills only make 2H, which is already a good fighting style, even more attractive and there's already a case of people who ditched 1H to 2H solely because of this.

Even though logically it doesn't really make sense, but IMO skills that hits all mobs should be able to use by 1H or DW since they badly in need for one. This scenario is just one example of the 'supplement' skills I'm talking about. You can do it however you see fits if you like this idea. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

After playing a bit longer and actually trying out Spirit Mode, I guess it just boils down to my not finding making a decision between a sustained damage increase or burst damage enjoyable. The skills are a great addition and one I've been waiting for since forever ago, but the implementation and cost mechanism seem half-baked.

Is there any reason why an offensive skill should take all our OC? I'd rather it just take a regularly quantified amount of either OC or SP (the latter makes the most sense design wise) and do away with the damage boost from taking all of the OC. It doesn't seem to add anything to the playstyle, as buktore pointed out, but rather makes it the same as it was before, in a way. And more often than not, this is a good thing, but you've added something to the "Melee Class" that is incredibly important, and we should have to make a choice on whether to use a skill or not, but if it's between burst damage and a sustained damage increase...

Clearly the latter wins a good portion of the time.

A fun thing would be to use both of these ideas.

Give each fighting style a few different skills, each having it's own cost in OC, meaning melees gets some choices in what they wanna do.
Having it cost SP might seem like a logical thing for someone below level 190. But once you get there, you'll quite quickly realize that SPs main usage is for soaking up big hits with spirit shield, and not many can afford using spirit points on things other than that. Especially not melees, who through their slower playing style will suffer more special attacks, which spirit shield is there to protect against.

With different skills and different OC costs, that would make for some fun play.
That means you could for example make DW decent in normal arenas, by giving them "whirlwind" skill, which will hit all mobs in the room for normal mainhand damage, and costs a set amount of OC.
Say a cost of 50% OC, that means that a high-level melee with filled OC tanks can actually use it 5 times in a row if they have filled their OC-meter.
Or a little less, if combined with spirit mode, since that draws OC continously.

But I still think spirit mode needs to be changed, not only does it cost SPs that are needed elsewhere, but it kinda skews things since spirit mode affects damage output from skills, meaning the best way to deal damage with the current skill is to activate spirit mode and then use the skill (requires a few points into OC tanks, since it costs 10% OC to attack and you need minimum 100% OC for the skill).


One solution would be to have the OC tanks give a passive damage upgrade, which melees really need, or possibly change the ability tree a bit, have OC tanks give 3% per AP and only 3 AP to fill out a tank, making it similar to the other tanks. And then add a passive melee damage tank that requires OC tank (which requires SP tank, making it similar to the elemental resistance tank which requires points in the single target and AoE spells first).
That would decrease the maximum possible OC from 280% to 262%, not that big of a deal, especially since it also saves 36 AP points. But with a melee damage tank that gives say 2% per AP and 3 APs per tank, giving a total passive bonus of 6% per level for a total of 108% passive damage with full tanks (which means you have to first fill all spirit tanks and OC tanks, making it pretty expensive AP-wise, but that means high-level melees will get a big boost, and they are the ones that need it the most).

And to that, change spirit mode a bit. Here is one suggestion, remove the SP cost and instead of it costing OC-charge it just doesn't recharge OC while it is running.
And to compensate for that, decrease the damage boost it gives, which is compensated for by the melee damage tanks, and have it no longer apply to skills and spells.
So you have to choose between a small passive bonus from spirit mode, or gaining OC to use for skills.

As for mages, for whom OC will now become useless since spirit mode gives no bonus to spell damage, that is easily fixed by giving staffs some skills (which costs OC) which benefit mages. Instead of the current totally worthless concussive strike which costs lots of OC and is pretty worthless compared to the damage bonus of a single spell through spirit mode.
Something like maybe an auto-hit AoE attack that causes a 2-3 turn stun but very little damage, "defensive staff twirl".
Gives mages a bit of breathing room and a chance to utilize ET better (while skills should not proc weapon of suffix things, but just the skills own stuff, it will give the mage a chance to hit monsters with CM with melee hits to proc it, while they are stunned).


And yes, it's a long post, I'm aware I write long posts, but still, please read it for suggestions, it doesn't contain any whining (or at least, not very much)

This post has been edited by Randommember: Jan 1 2012, 18:36

But I still think spirit mode needs to be changed, not only does it cost SPs that are needed elsewhere, but it kinda skews things since spirit mode affects damage output from skills, meaning the best way to deal damage with the current skill is to activate spirit mode and then use the skill (requires a few points into OC tanks, since it costs 10% OC to attack and you need minimum 100% OC for the skill).

Has anyone tested healing and channeling? Does it improve healing (really handy to warriors) or stack with channeling damage boost( (really handy for mages)? I don't have HVStat installed but it seems you could get the correct statistics using something like that?

Another annoyance is that using items, rebuffing, and so on will take away a turn of OC. But this kind of makes sense if it's supposed to be a time-limited effect(turns) and not action-limited(attacks only).

Gives mages a bit of breathing room and a chance to utilize ET better (while skills should not proc weapon of suffix things, but just the skills own stuff, it will give the mage a chance to hit monsters with CM with melee hits to proc it, while they are stunned).

Meh, I've been using CM/ET/Channeling like crazy in Item World since the patch. My staff proficiency is going up and up and up! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's a lot slower going than burning up a dozen godly potions but it allows me to try out spirit mode and gain staff proficiency which is hard to force yourself to get, so it's not too bad of a tradeoff. Arenas for some reason are a lot harder to use ET in compared to the Item World, also.

This post has been edited by lovehcomics: Jan 1 2012, 22:37

Tenboro, I have a quick question about the skill OC consumption. If someone's already asked and I missed it, well, that's because I gave up on the whinging ~page 20.

Was the intent to consume 100 points of OC, or however much you have when you use it? The way it reads, it's the first, but for me at least, it's the second. My gauge maxes at 154%, if that matters.

EDIT: Derp. I guess I should've tried to read the last page instead of giving up. Still, question stands.

This post has been edited by ringlhach: Jan 2 2012, 02:17

The new setup was alittle confusing at first and took some getting used to because the Spirit power strategy is now drastically different from what it originally was.



Overall, I think it works better for me, because my spirit level was overpowered as it was and now I get more use out of those points instead of blowing them all on one attack where it isn't neccessary to use so much energy.

The new setup was alittle confusing at first and took some getting used to because the Spirit power strategy is now drastically different from what it originally was.
Overall, I think it works better for me, because my spirit level was overpowered as it was and now I get more use out of those points instead of blowing them all on one attack where it isn't neccessary to use so much energy.

Melee. You can now do more damage with the current setup.
BUT you will also need spirit to do that extra damage.
Without spirit attack, you now do about 0,75x damage you used to.
I do believe this is to make melee peoples do more clicking and need to equip spirit potion.
Even then. I swear to the allmighty satan, melee people can't do the 300 arena on Battletoads, even if they equi ethereal mace of illithid.

Melee. You can now do more damage with the current setup.
BUT you will also need spirit to do that extra damage.
Without spirit attack, you now do about 0,75x damage you used to.
I do believe this is to make melee peoples do more clicking and need to equip spirit potion.
Even then. I swear to the allmighty satan, melee people can't do the 300 arena on Battletoads, even if they equi ethereal mace of illithid.

Im fairly sure I can do it with that mace.

Im fairly sure I can do it with that mace.

I'd like to believe that too.
But I haven't even seen 2 leggies until I run out of patience.
Problem ?
I am not running out of mana.
BUT
I am running out of spirit, without using spirit attack.
Because of spirit shield.
The mace I has, has a low proc.
With my cool mace without illithid thingy, running out of mana fast.
Of course, If I ever manage to do it, I will post it to "ask the experts" - not caring if someone asks or not.
It takes over 1000+ rounds to kill one with mace, so imagine the spirit drain.

This post has been edited by Bunko: Jan 3 2012, 23:30

Even then. I swear to the allmighty satan, melee people can't do the 300 arena on Battletoads, even if they equi ethereal mace of illithid.

Don't be so hasty in making such comments. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's not possible. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Don't be so hasty in making such comments. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's not possible. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yea, I surely WILL NOT GIVE UP !!

I am running out of spirit, without using spirit attack.
Because of spirit shield.
The mace I has, has a low proc.
With my cool mace without illithid thingy, running out of mana fast.
Of course, If I ever manage to do it, I will post it to "ask the experts" - not caring if someone asks or not.
It takes over 1000+ rounds to kill one with mace, so imagine the spirit drain.

Can't you use Soul Reaper/Harvest to replenish it?
It shouldn't take too long, and you'll still be doing damage.

Can't you use Soul Reaper/Harvest to replenish it?
It shouldn't take too long, and you'll still be doing damage.

You're too smart to reply to.
That's excactly what I'm gonna try next.
Hopefully the mana drain won't be too much.

I'd like to believe that too.
But I haven't even seen 2 leggies until I run out of patience.
Problem ?
I am not running out of mana.
BUT
I am running out of spirit, without using spirit attack.
Because of spirit shield.
The mace I has, has a low proc.
With my cool mace without illithid thingy, running out of mana fast.
Of course, If I ever manage to do it, I will post it to "ask the experts" - not caring if someone asks or not.
It takes over 1000+ rounds to kill one with mace, so imagine the spirit drain.

Banshee mace would be the better Choice but Mana leech Mace will work too.
With some clever Mana Management it will be possible to do some Soul Harvest in between.

You biggest Enemy will be boredom cause it takes forever to kill a Schoolgirl with Mace.
I hope Skills will make this less boring then I will give it a go.

Not to spam this thread too much.
But this I has to say:
Without illithid weapon, melee can't do it.
Melee Might do it with illithid mace, stealing Spirit with a spell.
That's my next move.

This post has been edited by Bunko: Jan 4 2012, 00:13

Banshee mace would be the better Choice but Mana leech Mace will work too.
With some clever Mana Management it will be possible to do some Soul Harvest in between.

The problem with this is the availability of ethereal banshee maces. I think I'm the only one that has such a mace. Then again, some lurker could also have it.

Melee Might do it with illithid mace, stealij Spirit with a spell.
That's my next move.

You won't have enough mana to consistently drain Spirit. Soul harvest ain't exactly cheap mana wise.

This post has been edited by Sushilicious: Jan 4 2012, 00:13

You won't have enough mana to consistently drain Spirit. Soul harvest ain't exactly cheap mana wise.

This is why didn't already say I has already done it.
Without illithid weapon, it's impossible.
So i'm gonna try stealing spirit with forbidden magics,
Tried, it's too slow.
Can't do it melee.
it'd just too slow. not enough life.

This post has been edited by Bunko: Jan 4 2012, 02:41

time to be constructive

spirit mode should only cost overcharge and skills should cost spirit points (or vice-versa)

You can always ask for 3 types of regen armor to be added; life, mana and spirit.


Add life regen to the leather/plate types, since everyone hates them late in the game.
Add mana regen to cloth types, since everyone maging hates cloth.
Add spirit regen to whatever is left.

This post has been edited by trikon000: Jan 4 2012, 04:28

Will there be a equipment limit indication anywhere for future updates. I try to remove things but i still donno if i've been refilling my inventory back up.

Will there be a equipment limit indication anywhere for future updates. I try to remove things but i still donno if i've been refilling my inventory back up.

If you have over 1,000 pieces of equipment you should be told when loot drops that a piece of equipment was turned into an item.