[X] My Assistant

I just want to make the point clear its not an huge buff like he made it out to be.
If I should ever go for the new title I will use it of course.

Can't you use soul stones to build up the necessary OC? Or do you need all item slots for mana replenishments?

Can't you use soul stones to build up the necessary OC? Or do you need all item slots for mana replenishments?

20% per turn for 5 turns. You'd need a ton of them to even make it worth it, and adding Soul Stones would decrease the number of Mana potions you can have. Which are more important than a 50% damage boost.

Am I the only one who hasn't whined about any of the mage nerfs and melee nerfs so far throughout the course of 2011? I might have made some comments regarding some minor aspects but don't think I made any specific complaints as far as magic or melee damage is concerned. I could be wrong though. Damn, can I get a medal or something? Maybe an honorable player/member award or something. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Serious Suggestion:
Change 'Shatter Strike' to 'Shattering Strike' because it sounds cooler. Also, saying Shatter Strike leaves a bad taste on your tongue as if something's missing. /rant

Serious Suggestion:
Change 'Shatter Strike' to 'Shattering Strike' because it sounds cooler. Also, saying Shatter Strike leaves a bad taste on your tongue as if something's missing. /rant

Shattering Strike definitely sounds much better, wonder why nobody commented on it sooner? It's awesome to see it's effect on that many monsters at one shot, especially at lower difficulties. Haven't tried it yet on higher though.

Playing the arenas now is like playing grindfest, with only the arena clear bonus to look forward to. Used to just ignore those health/mana/spirit/mystic drops towards the end, but now they are worth their weight in "gold".

This post has been edited by cyberwaveIT: Dec 26 2011, 22:10

That sounds great! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
You should tell people beforehand, so people would start giving constructive ideas on the variety of skills instead of bitching around some incomplete things.

He did. It was mentioned somewhere near the beginning of this thread, if not in the first post, that this is only the first part of the change.

And I appreciate the explanations Tenboro. It's always nice to know WHY changes are made. And also why things went wrong. When the devs started actually explaining stuff back when I played Everquest, I got a better understanding on why things were changed as a whole. Even if you don't participate in the discussions, at least keep the explanations coming.

thanks for the update

loving the forge

And I appreciate the explanations Tenboro. It's always nice to know WHY changes are made. And also why things went wrong. When the devs started actually explaining stuff back when I played Everquest, I got a better understanding on why things were changed as a whole. Even if you don't participate in the discussions, at least keep the explanations coming.

I actually agree with this quite a lot, except I never played Everquest. It's just that I understand Tenboro's point on never wanting to explain herself/himself(?) because a lot of the people who will actually post will be the whiny fucks. Don't get me wrong, Tenboro is fucking awesome, with the entire e-h being a fucking masterpiece of coding glory, everything working well, everything working quickly, everything simple enough to run on a shitty machine, but at the same time look amazing. But I digress, and the point is that Tenboro is tired of dealing with all the whiny fucks that are bitching about this got nurfed that got nurfed when all that was really happening was the temporary placeholder game mechanics such as the passive overcharge are being turned into their more finalized states with the weapon skills and the spirit mode.

Honestly it shouldn't matter if you got nurfed some in this game especially seeing as it is single player for all combat purposes. You should be playing to have fun, and if things got a bit tougher, then think of that as a chance to hone your skills, maybe things will get easier later.

P.S. I'm still not sure if the overcharge drain on deactivation of Spirit Mode was intentional or just a byproduct of it being in the first phase of the combat logic, which i'm not sure if it is divided into three phases but it seems to me to be that it is.

This post has been edited by Darque_Flux: Dec 26 2011, 22:39

My thought Tenb ...

So it seem there will be some change. Great! Few thought ...

- There should, even a must, be an ability that either give passive dmg bonus (like OC boost used to be) or increased effectiveness of some kind of active in-battle dmg bonus mechanics in some way (the current OC boost barely gives any benefits, you can stay in SP mode longer but it take longer time to fill the OC as well, and the dmg bonus to skill is meh, just like the old spirit attack). One of the satisfaction and joy a melee player can get in HV is to try to earn AP point and put it into this ability and know that their character become stronger, and the thought that the next tier of this ability will be there every 10 lv or so is one of the thing that keep you motivated to continue doing it. I've been there, done that.

- Enough with the skill that just a new version of spirit attack (i.e. use it, awesome, and you're fucked afterward).

This post has been edited by buktore: Dec 27 2011, 01:01

BTW, I highly approved of Stun nerfed (in fact, I requested for it) and the removal of no one cared small-buff 2H gained faster OC bugs. Do mage ever approved of any removal of stupid bugs that made them so absurdly powerful?

Boo on nerfing clubs/maces! That's the 2 weapons that actually seemed feasible to gain melee proficiency for. I remember when the maces and clubs got really nerfed back in 2010 or so... then buffed in 2011... then unbuffed to not trigger when already stunned. Yo-yo buffs/nerfs! I'll probably grind 1H/2H/DW proficiency again after the next patch (probably) makes warriors harder to hit. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Also, I'll enjoy maging for proficiency while it lasts. (LOL probably not long with all the melee people saying how unfair magic is)

The most obvious bug that exists now is that you can have a chance of gaining Coalesced Mana of say, 30%, and fighting 10 monsters, you'll never see it hit more than 1. You have to pray that it hits one of the tougher monsters. This is by design, by the way. It's related to the recent fix to make it so that Domino Strikes doesn't make you get tons of overcharge. You only ever get credit for successfully hitting one enemy. Spirit mode kind of made this much more obvious so Tenboro had to fix it.

I think this pretty much explains why I rarely do melee anymore:
[tvtropes.org] http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...uadraticWizards
It's usually at about 25%-40% of possible (or highest in this case) level that mages suddenly become a lot more powerful. The attempts at solutions in most games leads either to useless mages, or low damage-per-second but very defensive warriors. If it meant that I didn't have to use Spark of Life or such as a warrior in heavy gear, I'd gladly give up the slots for health/spirit potions instead of mana. As it is, warriors get a greater benefit from mana potions than healing potions in the long run. You can use a single godly mana potion and get several life bars of health from it - especially if using Regen II and trained-up supportive proficiency! Oh, and at your convenience and not before the potion runs out. I really wish the potions would 'hold on' from doing a turn if your HP/MP/SP were already maxed. I feel for you full-timers. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I miss how you could mix armor types and clothes to fit your style of play or to train all defensive proficiencies at once. Something like a 1/5th rule would be nice. If you have 3 cloth and 2 light armor pieces, you get 60% chance of cloth and 40% chance of light armor proficiency gains on a defensive proficiency roll. Also, you get 60% of your cloth proficiency bonus and 40% of your light. (I think this is roughly what the old system did when you mixed types)

Teeen is right - HV is free to play and gives us a chance at earning credits for downloads if we don't want to spend them on equipment and stuff. Thanks for the free game! Perception bias makes our dissatisfaction seem bigger but we're actually pretty happy. Almost no one complains that something is good! Also, forge adds spice, hehe. Randommember kind of touched on the same thing about complaining and progress.

Tenboro: "Sure thing. You just need a few Chaos Tokens and a huge pile of crystals. Fair enough?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I was tempted to say the same thing. At least they're tradable so you can forgo the tokens.

Maximum_Joe: "Concussive Strike sucks."
I would have to even notice it to agree or not. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Randommember: "It means we care.
If we didn't get upset, it's because we don't care."
And that would be WAY worse! It means a game is not interesting enough to the players to even care.

Tenboro: "You don't see the benefit of higher overcharge because that part of the mechanism isn't done yet."
Fair enough... We'll see in updates what happens. I was often doing Ring of Blood with melee fighting styles to take advantage of spirit attacks and stunning+defense to outlast them. I wonder if I could do it without bubble gum and flower vases now after all those patches... heh, it was several updates since I cleared FSM and Real Life.

Am I the only one who hasn't whined about any of the mage nerfs and melee nerfs so far throughout the course of 2011? I might have made some comments regarding some minor aspects but don't think I made any specific complaints as far as magic or melee damage is concerned. I could be wrong though. Damn, can I get a medal or something? Maybe an honorable player/member award or something. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You did. We all did, especially during the time Tenboro nerfed mages while claiming there was a bug in the damage formula, which he was blaming on the players for not noticing, for a code that he didn't release to the public.

We even teamed up on bashing Tenboro during that time lol.

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It's pathetic actually. Go ahead and nerf melee damage another 2-3 times so they can know what it feels like to dread every new update, like mages did throughout 2011.

Oh yes. 2012 is their turn to do the whining.

The most obvious bug that exists now is that you can have a chance of gaining Coalesced Mana of say, 30%, and fighting 10 monsters, you'll never see it hit more than 1. You have to pray that it hits one of the tougher monsters. This is by design, by the way. It's related to the recent fix to make it so that Domino Strikes doesn't make you get tons of overcharge.

The CM thing was fixed. Not the other way around ... It has nothing to do with 2H.

Yes, CM only procs once. Yes, Channeling only procs if the targeted monster has CM. Yes, it's working as intended.

Lots of rage ensued thereafter... And this is just 1 of the bugs. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

BTW, when the resist bug, which effects everyone, not just mage, got fixed. They rage all over as well though I don't remember any melee complains. Then again... Everyone were mage back then.

I miss how you could mix armor types and clothes to fit your style of play or to train all defensive proficiencies at once.

I do miss that too. But the current way is ok enough...

This post has been edited by buktore: Dec 26 2011, 23:40

So it is a buff because it can save us a few turns if we waste a few turns before to use it?

Its only really good for High Difficulty Schoolgirl Marathons which any sane person will do only once in his entire HV Career.

I'd say that is a nice buff.
The choice to waste a few turns to save a few turns. Especially since you can choose when to waste them and when to save them.
Meaning you can "save up" power when you don't need it, in order to use it when you do need it.

It's not that Hard nerfs anybody, it's that it's not a difficulty suited for speed tests.
Since most mages can one-shot everything at that difficulty, the person with the fastest connection and the fastest browser (Chrome) will always have the advantage, no matter how strong the other contestants are.

Yeah. Meaning that hard is actually so easy for mages that there isn't much point in even playing it, compared to a higher difficulty.
If anything, that shows just how huge the difference is between melee and mage.

Am I the only one who hasn't whined about any of the mage nerfs and melee nerfs so far throughout the course of 2011? I might have made some comments regarding some minor aspects but don't think I made any specific complaints as far as magic or melee damage is concerned. I could be wrong though. Damn, can I get a medal or something? Maybe an honorable player/member award or something. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If you don't whine, you don't exist.
Without whining, Tenboro likely wouldn't even be aware that melee players considers this a problem.

Guess what, there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of players out there, who hasn't said a single thing about anything.
And noone knows they exist or what they think, except as a statistic of active players.

It just occurred to me that there isn't an e-hentai page on TVTropes. This must be remedied.

You did. We all did, especially during the time Tenboro nerfed mages while claiming there was a bug in the damage formula, which he was blaming on the players for not noticing, for a code that he didn't release to the public.

We even teamed up on bashing Tenboro during that time lol.

Ah yes, gave me quite a chuckle back then. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
To be fair though, I didn't bash Tenboro for nerfing magic damage back to the Stone Age when he 'fixed' EDB, I was actually okay with that. I just didn't think it was proper for him to let players shoulder all the blame where there simply wasn't any effective way for us to determine which part of the damage formula was being affected whenever we change a piece of equipment.

If you don't whine, you don't exist.

That is some pretty flawed logic. I'll let you figure it out yourself where you went wrong with that statement.

So once again, a simple solution to melee class laments: bring the OC passive damage back but make it 33% from maximum Overcharge pool instead of 33% from current Overcharge value. There, every single person out there is happy and praising you etc etc etc~

Mage whine because their unintended numerous bugs that made them ridiculously powerful got removed (and Hito himself is one of the biggest whiner about this, if you didn't know) ...

I must have missed this.

Some of their legit nerfed, like removed elem rating bonus skills, were replaced with a satisfying new high EDB phase and they are happy ever after. In fact, this 'nerf' were even said to be a 'buff' by some mage because of the new phase made their spell of choice more powerful...

Yeah I remember that, but I was never part of that group. In fact the patch was timed exactly at the moment I was selling my "max edb" phase piece in an auction. So I got "screwed over" but in the end, it's just credits - nothing which I can't recover by playing.

Not sure if new phase can be said to be better than old with bug though... bug had squared bonus value if I remember right (the EDB was applied twice). So back then the skill rating bonus + EDB phase + bug led to ungodly amounts of damage. But I personally didn't agree with the voice of mage players there since they were complaining about their loss of ability to facemelt IWBTH which IMO shoulda never happened. IWBTH was meant to be difficult - it should stay that way.

Melee whine because their intended (before this patch) ridiculous-costly-amount-of-AP-needed-for-only-reasonable-gained passive dmg bonus that they must have in order just to catch up with mage got removed, and replaced it with what, a shitty mage spell that once used, leave you feel like shit for the next 30-60 turns? Not to mentioned that now it cost SP point just to feel the same a the last patch ...
See the difference?

I don't melee anymore so I can't say whether you're right or not since I haven't experienced the difference in between the two patches for melee but what I *do* know is there is no one that likes getting flamed/getting fuckload of negative comments - which I feel T is getting a lot of. It's been done. Flaming him won't change anything for the better. In fact it'd probably make it worse.

Like in the cases of the mage "nerfs", I can't say they were equal/worse than melee ones since (again as mentioned above I can't compare the two) but I knew they were done so I didn't complain about them (at least to my recollection). I just had to adapt.

BTW, I highly approved of Stun nerfed (in fact, I requested for it) and the removal of no one cared small-buff 2H gained faster OC bugs.

T removed that bug because he was worried about permi spirit mode. If it had stayed you'd have low level melee's running around Spirit Moding on 2H until they were out of spirit.

Do mage ever approved of any removal of stupid bugs that made them so absurdly powerful?

Not sure which bugs you meant... but the Soul Burst bug was a big difference (I wouldn't call it a small bug) nor was the EDB bug. But again, in both cases I felt the bugs should have been removed and it helped balance the game.

The point is that it's an absolutely free boost. Mage don't have to sacrificed a single thing and they are perfectly the same as before without them.

You're right. It is free. But it's peanuts to a mage. It's like an old lady came up to me and gave me a loonie. I'm thankful for it. But I'm not going to parade the streets over it. Right now everyone is pointing fingers and saying I shouldn't get that loonie. Like Ballistic said, a mage will practically *only* use it in legendary arenas on high difficulty - and like Ichy said that's about once per HV career per sane player. (No hard feelings, Sushi (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

You've got to be kidding me...

As mentioned above, I won't pick a stand whether about how much worse/better things are for melee. But for myself as a mage, I have no problems with the changes in this patch. I was probably misunderstood about my statement. It was from a mage perspective.

Been there, done that.

I could have sworn this isn't your first time maging. In fact you were particularly unsatisfied with your first time maging (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yes, there is a lot of whining. But you don't think there may be a reason for why there is a lot of whining?

No, most whining isn't valid. Like the time when mages whined over the loss of EDB bug. Or when agitation came in and raped almost every mage in existence many times over. Or when 100% accuracy was removed so that agitation became more dangerous. None of that was valid whining.

And yes, I'm currently swapping to mage, so yeah, we can skip that part.
I just think it's pretty ridiculous when the best solution to the problem is to join the other side.
How about we make it complete and stop drops of light and heavy armor and melee weapons, that way we can all have more mage gear, and we won't have to waste time on this worthless melee gear that noone should be using anyway?

Considering how most players play here, Mage was the style most suited for them to begin with. I think the greater concern was people wanting the Mage style incorporated into melee. The bolded is probably the MAIN reason for everyone being all disgruntled about the melee change. *Most* of the melee comments I see involve some ungodly boost to Melee that will break HV. I've seen a few intelligent ones and I've been supporting them but the majority I've had to treat as trolling.

Melees spend spirit on their spirit shield, because it takes them much longer to kill things it allows the monsters more time to load up their mana and spirit for special attacks, so they use up more spirit to soak up the really huge hits.

You're the first melee I've seen say this. Whenever I talk to any other melee they say "lol yah they're all stunned". Guess you're not macing it? What's the difference between your strat and the rest of the melees out there? =\

As for soaking up lots of huge hits to the spirit...
No one will take many big hits in low difficulty (mage+melee) - if they are, they are doing something wrong.
At high difficulties the monsters are all stunned. Those not stunned have to break through melee evasion. Same can't be said about Mages. In fact, there was a Melee guy I was talking to who finished Trio on BT without any consumables. Naturally he didn't do anything special/change his play style. Don't think I can say the same for Mages.

So IMO, if a melee is doing it right. They will have *PLENTY* of spirit to take advantage of Spirit Shield + Spirit Mode. Or maybe they were just using the wrong weapon to begin with (it doesn't *always* have to be about slaughter (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )

As for the passive bonus, if you scroll up you can see that Tenboro himself said he removed it because if he didn't, no melee would use the spirit mode.

Scrolled up. Did not see any post by T

Yeah, being a mage is little more difficult than being a melee, at least for normal grinding, where a melee hits a button over and over and only stops to buff and heal a little now and then.
But mages instead hit fewer buttons, because they do it a lot faster.

It's a little easier. When I was playing Melee I could move the screen off to the side and just hold down my numpad while I watched youtube videos/movies/etc. You can just hold down the button and watch as the life bars drain.

When I swapped to mage I found I had to concentrate way more to move through the rounds (especially if I wanted to go through them fast)

And yeah, mages may need OMFG gear to truly be clearing shit fast on high difficulties, but melees need OMFG gear to clear shit at all on higher difficulties.

Groundless statement. Like I mentioned. I was messaging a melee guy who did T&T on BT without consumables. His gear wasn't exactly stellar. In fact, I sold him most of his gear. T&T on BT is a feat I have yet to do/know whether I can do or not.

There are very few melees that can do the schoolgirl marathons at higher difficulties.

No one in their right mind will do schoolgirl marathons at higher difficulties often. And those that want to try, are using the wrong approach. With the exception of sushi ofc.

I know I can barely do them at normal difficulty, but then I don't have an ethereal mace and OMFG gear. It takes so long to grind them down with melee hits that I run out of spirit and mana, and finally run out of potions, before I'm through the entire arena.

You're probably using the wrong approach. You shouldn't need OMFG gear to go through normal. My melee contact did it with an Exq mace of slaughter I lent him. He also did it with an superior estoc of slaughter. Both non eth. Both very very buyable in today's/past half a year's market.

I started a thread in the other forum to check on times it took to clear The Trio and the Tree, and mages got upset because they thought I was setting the rules for the little competition in a way that hugely disfavored them.
I limited it to hard difficulty and no consumables, in order to make it even and so noone should spam heavy items just to get a good clear times so I could get a better average on the time it takes.
Mages complained, probably rightly so, that they needed mana potions to clear it quick, and they complained that it nerfed them to do it on hard difficulty, since most thought hard difficutly was ridiculous and they didn't play on that low of a setting.
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=49964

I never really bothered with that thread because it was a tad silly to begin with "Showing that melee can compete with mages, when it comes to speed." If melee was as fast a Mage, Mage would be obsolete. This goes back to my statement from above: Considering how most players play here, Mage was the style most suited for them to begin with.

At the same time, telling Mages not to use expendables was pretty silly as well. You think our spells are free or something? We *need* mana to kill. I would assume you'd at least have understood that. ET is not our main source of mana refill. It's our *back up*

You did. We all did, especially during the time Tenboro nerfed mages while claiming there was a bug in the damage formula, which he was blaming on the players for not noticing, for a code that he didn't release to the public.

We even teamed up on bashing Tenboro during that time lol.

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Oh yes. 2012 is their turn to do the whining.

Not me (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) (I think)

That is some pretty flawed logic. I'll let you figure it out yourself where you went wrong with that statement.

With exist, I mean exist in the eyes of the ones in power.

Why do you think the occupy Wall street movement exists? Was it really so that before them, noone thought there was anything wrong with the things they are protesting against?
Of course there was, but since noone was making a ruckus, noone cared.

The louder you scream, the more you are being noticed, and the higher the chance that whatever it is you are complaining about will actually be given some attention.


Of course, just because you scream the loudest doesn't mean you are right, and attention doesn't always mean that it will be fixed.
But at least it will be noticed.

But sit silent and do nothing, and noone will notice, and you won't exist as anything but a number in the statistics.

Not a big fan of this update

I don't dislike it either

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Can atleast magic missile cause overcharge? since its now relevant to maging

The CM thing was fixed. Not the other way around ... It has nothing to do with 2H.
Lots of rage ensued thereafter... And this is just 1 of the bugs. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

BTW, when the resist bug, which effects everyone, not just mage, got fixed. They rage all over as well though I don't remember any melee complains. Then again... Everyone were mage back then.
I do miss that too. But the current way is ok enough...

CM has everything to do with Domino Strikes(specific part of 2H)... Think about it. You're using an area-of-effect spell. It hits a bunch of monsters. You got a chance for CM from each hit (before) but now it gets cut off once even one of them gets CM effect proc'd. You use a 2H weapon and it hits multiple monsters. They each charged your bar on a hit, but now it only limits you to one hit. See the similarity? The algorithm is very close in principle.

It would be cool to go warrior for a few levels. I want to get my proficiencies all above 150. By then, I'll be level 250 or something, though! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The new spirit mode has encouraged me to take more advantage of CM which is leveling my staff proficiency kind of fast.

dcherry: "ET is not our main source of mana refill. It's our *back up*"
Well, I remember relying on my Redwood staff that had nearly 50% chance back when you could actually live on ET. I was a little annoyed because I couldn't do the level 150+ item worlds anymore but I got over it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Oh, and this was back when a staff over 40% was as rare as hell.

This post has been edited by lovehcomics: Dec 27 2011, 02:20