QUOTE(Tenboro @ Dec 25 2011, 14:33)
There are lies, and there are gross misrepresentations.
How many people had Overcharge maxed? Fully? Maybe one, two tops? And you expect me to balance everything for extreme outliers? Really?
And your argument about mages having more use of it than melees fails flat on its face on the fact that melees will on average drain overcharge with Spirit Mode active at 25% the rate of mages, since they regain 5-10 points for every melee attack. And that's disregarding it having half effect and needing to take time out to charge it in the first place.
Don't even talk to me about balance if you disregard everything that's counter to your opinion.
There are exaggerations to get your point through, and there is math.
Of course not everyone is gonna have overcharged maxed, the first reason for that is that you have to be level 250 to even have access to all the ability tiers.
But that doesn't really mean that much, because it's not 93% damage boost with OC fully trained, or nothing. Even with no points in it at all, you still got 33% just from the basic overcharge.
So it varied between 33% and 93%, depending on how much AP into overcharge tanks you had.
Now it's 0% or 100%, and you can't have the higher bonus on you all the time, unlike with how the old system worked.
The fact that mages have more use out of it is because they didn't have it all.
That means that any use at all they get out of it is a buff compared to what they had before.
While for melees, what they got was effectively a nerf, once they were out of the lower levels.
And here's the kicker. Melees don't have it that hard at the lower levels, that's where it is fairly equal. Mages don't start to run away in power until level 200+.
And it's the high-level melees, the ones that least needed it, that got the kick in their teeth.
So to talk about balance, you need to take in the whole picture, and at higher levels, mages were more powerful than melees even before this.
Now melees gets a nerf and mages got a buff.
Guess what the result is?
The answer isn't balance.
QUOTE(Tenboro @ Dec 25 2011, 16:55)
What?
Except for equipment upgrades and weapon skills, but talking about those would weaken your position, wouldn't it.
A good argument.
Except for the fact that mages use equipment as well, and therefore benefit equally.
Actually, one could easily argue that mages benefit more from it, since the damage bonus mages get from phase gear (which is a reason for why high-level mages do such tremendous damage) can be upgraded as well, and gets more benefit from +1 to holy/elemental/dark damage than a melee get from +1 damage on a shade piece.
QUOTE(Tenboro @ Dec 25 2011, 18:22)
So your logic is that melees should get all the swag and the mages should get nothing. Gotcha.
And yes, I bet mages will be beating stuff to death constantly now to get at those skills.
No, the logic is is that mages were already more powerful than melees, and now they were made even more powerful.
Since it is about balance and comparison between the two, that's a pretty important logic.
And no, mages probably won't be beating stuff to death, but they will hit them with staffs every now and then, just like they used to.
Only now they get a sweet 50% boost to their damage output as a bonus for doing it, instead of just doing it for mana.
Now that might have been balanced with melees "boost", if melees didn't have any bonus damage from overcharge at all.
Since that got removed from melees. That is a really important thing. The damage bonus melees had was removed.
And it was replaced with a mode that both melees AND mages got. That melees can use it more doesn't make up for the fact that melees lost something pretty significant in order to get it.
If you gave melees a flat 33% damage boost (to equal the old damage boost from 100% base overcharge) and then had OC tanks give a 3% damage boost per filled tank, then it would be equal.
This in addition to the spirit mode, which affects melees and mages both.
QUOTE(Tenboro @ Dec 25 2011, 20:09)
Well, that's exactly what you're saying. It doesn't matter that melee got some active tools to make their gameplay more strategic since mages also got something they could use. For the vast, vast majority of players, melees are in no way worse off than they were before, and I'm not at all convinced any of them lost anything. And despite the wails of those who apparently lack any long-term memory, melees have been buffed in nearly every single patch this year.
But melees also lost something.
That's the problem.
Melees lost something, and got something else, something weaker for higher-leveled melees, to replace it with.
Mages didn't lost anything, but they still gained something, something they didn't have and something that is a pure boost with no drawbacks (they can choose not to use it, which would leave them unchanged from before the patch).
And the fact that melees have been buffd in nearly every single patch just makes me sad to see that mages are still more powerful.
And there is the problem. It doesn't matter how much you buff melees, if you also buffs mages the same of even more than you buff melees.
Sure, both get more powerful, but the balance doesn't improve.
This post has been edited by Randommember: Dec 25 2011, 22:05
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Dec 25 2011, 18:12
