[X] My Assistant

They both have base damage over 50, which is relatively high. As you can see from the Peerless one in Super's auction, the Peerless ADB is 51.33. For Legendary Slaughter Rapiers the price depends a lot on the ADB value. For 1H the Burden of elemental prefixed Rapiers doesn't matter that much either.

That one has a base damage of 49.05 according to my Equipment Comparison script. Not a low value, but not a high one either. I think that many 1H players looking for a Rapier upgrade are looking for 50+ ADB ones, so there might be price difference even between 49.9 and 50.0 ADB. Also you need to remember how the stats scale in HV, even a seemingly little base stat difference can make a noticeable difference in the forged and level scaled value.

Just keep an eye on the auctions, I'm sure you can find a Legendary Slaughter Rapier for under 500k, maybe even with decent ADB if you are lucky. I got my Rapier for 300k even though the ADB is over 50, probably because no one wants Fiery prefixed equipment.

Yeah, I forgot how much people would be willing to pay for that 1 point difference. Reminds me of another game I used to play, people would pay north of 20m just to get something like +3 to their strength which would boost their max hit from about 50 to 51.

I really doubt that fiery equipment is THAT bad, but for some reason people shun them like the plague. I remember seeing a post where a guy compiled the average damage of the different strike effects and indeed fire was the worst, but only by a few small points.

1H is around 13k+ at lvl500 ~ ask amiya or void for this (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Phewwwwww, that doesn't look like a lot.

Yeah, I forgot how much people would be willing to pay for that 1 point difference. Reminds me of another game I used to play, people would pay north of 20m just to get something like +3 to their strength which would boost their max hit from about 50 to 51.

I really doubt that fiery equipment is THAT bad, but for some reason people shun them like the plague. I remember seeing a post where a guy compiled the average damage of the different strike effects and indeed fire was the worst, but only by a few small points.

IMHO they all suck except ethereal slaughter. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

In all seriousness, I don't get the point of spending that much for a 1 point difference. Hopefully if I ever land a Peerless ethereal rapier of slaughter people don't suddenly realize their +1 ADB has so little intrinsic worth. To me, intrinsic worth is found in upgrades that cut down on clear times, and to do that you need a few thousand additional effective ADB per strike - IOW why not just hang back and wait for a lower ADB ethereal rapier of slaughter, save 21m (judging by Superlatanium's latest auction where a tempestuous rapier of slaughter got 21M vs a mag ethereal rapier of slaughter got ~1m), then spend that savings on a bunch of bindings of slaughter or maybe stock up on infusions of darkness and divinity? My meta-math and my recent experience with very expensive upgrades says making up for the difference with upgrades seems more worth it, and the biggest ADB improvement has been gained by the use of infusions of darkness (my rapier already has holy strike).

How many fewer turns will it take to kill a LVL 404 monster with a 48.19 ADB rapier vs a 51.33 ADB rapier?

This post has been edited by jacquelope: Jul 2 2016, 18:48

Yeah, I forgot how much people would be willing to pay for that 1 point difference. Reminds me of another game I used to play, people would pay north of 20m just to get something like +3 to their strength which would boost their max hit from about 50 to 51.

that +1 may reflect into a +50~100 ADB on a 7k pool or something like that. if you consider that base hit + void strike + elemental strike can hit for thousands ADB each, you'll realize after a certain point it's only a matter of bragging rights. my 2PABs Mag Ethereal Rapier is still enough to let me clear pretty much everything.

I really doubt that fiery equipment is THAT bad

just FYI, one of the best rapiers in all the game is a Leg Fiery one owned by one of the higherups who shows here every now and then

I remember seeing a post where a guy compiled the average damage of the different strike effects and indeed fire was the worst, but only by a few small points.

yep. it was ssss2's math. it basically showed that with the proper Spike Shield stacked, every element is quite close to each other. and it also performs better than the coveted Holy/Dark in non-SG quests.
not sure about the SG quests, but you'll still have an advantage against the average mob pool. and actually, Mag Hallowed/Demonic are pretty cheap, if nothing else (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

To me, intrinsic worth is found in upgrades that cut down on clear times, and to do that you need a few thousand additional effective ADB per strike

it may still not be enough. even the almighty DD perk, which adds 10% damage - x1.1 multiplier - which should lower cleartimes by 9~10% on the paper does less than that. and that comes at the cost of 12M ~ roughly a Silver Star

IOW why not just hang back and wait for a lower ADB ethereal rapier of slaughter, save 21m (judging by Superlatanium's latest auction where a tempestuous rapier of slaughter got 21M vs a mag ethereal rapier of slaughter got ~1m), then spend that savings on a bunch of bindings of slaughter or maybe stock up on infusions of darkness and divinity? My meta-math and my recent experience with very expensive upgrades says making up for the difference with upgrades seems more worth it, and the biggest ADB improvement has been gained by the use of infusions of darkness (my rapier already has holy strike).

How many fewer turns will it take to kill a LVL 404 monster with a 48.19 ADB rapier vs a 51.33 ADB rapier?

everyone does what he wants with his savings. but i'm quite annoyed by all those turn/ADB/time counts/bragging rights that you see pop out on regular basis as well.

In all seriousness, I don't get the point of spending that much for a 1 point difference. Hopefully if I ever land a Peerless ethereal rapier of slaughter people don't suddenly realize their +1 ADB has so little intrinsic worth. To me, intrinsic worth is found in upgrades that cut down on clear times, and to do that you need a few thousand additional effective ADB per strike - IOW why not just hang back and wait for a lower ADB ethereal rapier of slaughter, save 21m (judging by Superlatanium's latest auction where a tempestuous rapier of slaughter got 21M vs a mag ethereal rapier of slaughter got ~1m), then spend that savings on a bunch of bindings of slaughter or maybe stock up on infusions of darkness and divinity? My meta-math and my recent experience with very expensive upgrades says making up for the difference with upgrades seems more worth it, and the biggest ADB improvement has been gained by the use of infusions of darkness (my rapier already has holy strike).

How many fewer turns will it take to kill a LVL 404 monster with a 48.19 ADB rapier vs a 51.33 ADB rapier?

You are talking about very high level players.
If I wanted I could easily get my rapier to Physical Damage Lv.100 (not it's at 71 btw, and I don't think it's really worth spending 4.5m to get to 100, even if I can afford it).
I have 150 infusions both for divinity and darkness, I'm always fighting infused and still my infusion income is positive.
What do you suggest players like me spend the credits on?
It's either maging, further upgrades (but the more you upgrade the less benefit you get) or bid wars on superior quality equips.

I don't see how it can ends up in any other way.

but i'm quite annoyed by all those turn/ADB/time counts/bragging rights that you see pop out on regular basis as well.

It's a game, old arcade games had the highest score, current games have toplist.
Pretty normal that people post things like that.
I'm personally more interested in seeing ADBs, turns etc etc of the best players in HV that to see people posting shit like credits balance (really, why would anyone care?).

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Jul 2 2016, 19:53

probably because no one wants Fiery prefixed equipment.

And that's quite stupid since Shocking is worse than Fiery (less type effectiveness on monsters), if not for the fact you can use Storm Spikes with the first one...but for 1h wind spikes hinder a bit (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

IMHO they all suck except ethereal slaughter. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

In all seriousness, I don't get the point of spending that much for a 1 point difference. Hopefully if I ever land a Peerless ethereal rapier of slaughter people don't suddenly realize their +1 ADB has so little intrinsic worth. To me, intrinsic worth is found in upgrades that cut down on clear times, and to do that you need a few thousand additional effective ADB per strike - IOW why not just hang back and wait for a lower ADB ethereal rapier of slaughter, save 21m (judging by Superlatanium's latest auction where a tempestuous rapier of slaughter got 21M vs a mag ethereal rapier of slaughter got ~1m), then spend that savings on a bunch of bindings of slaughter or maybe stock up on infusions of darkness and divinity? My meta-math and my recent experience with very expensive upgrades says making up for the difference with upgrades seems more worth it, and the biggest ADB improvement has been gained by the use of infusions of darkness (my rapier already has holy strike).

Nope.
First of all, no one guarantees you that you'll get dark or holy strike.
If not, you'll have to re-iw the rapier continuously.
The other solution is to keep it Iw9 and use voidseeker+2 infusions.
And at that point I highly doubt that it would be cheaper than buying directly an hallowed or demonic one.
It's not like the burden matter too much for 1h.

You are talking about very high level players.
If I wanted I could easily get my rapier to Physical Damage Lv.100 (not it's at 71 btw, and I don't think it's really worth spending 4.5m to get to 100, even if I can afford it).
I have 150 infusions both for divinity and darkness, I'm always fighting infused and still my infusion income is positive.
What do you suggest players like me spend the credits on?
It's either maging, further upgrades (but the more you upgrade the less benefit you get) or bid wars on superior quality equips.

I don't see how it can ends up in any other way.
It's a game, old arcade games had the highest score, current games have toplist.
Pretty normal that people post things like that.
I'm personally more interested in seeing ADBs, turns etc etc of the best players in HV that to see people posting shit like credits balance (really, why would anyone care?).

4th choice , you can donate some for me , sapo (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by nobody_xxx: Jul 2 2016, 20:04

I really doubt that fiery equipment is THAT bad, but for some reason people shun them like the plague. I remember seeing a post where a guy compiled the average damage of the different strike effects and indeed fire was the worst, but only by a few small points.

And that's quite stupid since Shocking is worse than Fiery (less type effectiveness on monsters), if not for the fact you can use Storm Spikes with the first one...but for 1h wind spikes hinder a bit (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm ok with other players hating Fire Strike, otherwise I might still be stuck with my old Rapier.

I also asked about the Fiery prefix before, but I think the discussion died:

I'm interested in this too, what makes Fire so bad? At first I though Fire had the Spike Shield with miss chance increase, but that is for Elec strike. Also looking at the Resistance Chart (doesn't take into account how often you meet certain types of monsters) Elec strike is again the worst strike. What actually makes the Fire strike so much worse than the other elemental strikes? I did read the Research for 1H, but is this really the only reason for Fire strike being bad?

-snip-

I think that the best way to improve your clear times after (or before) building a decent set is to optimize your browser and computer for the best possible t/s. After you are sure there is no way to improve that part, you can start spending millions of credits for small upgrades (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I actually find the turn/ADB/time counts interesting. They give some information on what works or doesn't work and perhaps help you see if it makes sense for you to pay for better equipment and forging.

IMHO they all suck except ethereal slaughter. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I think you are giving too much value to Ethereal prefix. Like I said before, the Burden is not that important to 1H players, as long as the overall burden is <70. I would have really hard time picking if I could take either Ethereal one or Demonic one with the same stats. IW is painful enough even without the elemental strike gamble for Ethereal ones. For DW Ethereal Rapier is probably better.

I'm interested in this too, what makes Fire so bad? At first I though Fire had the Spike Shield with miss chance increase, but that is for Elec strike. Also looking at the Resistance Chart (doesn't take into account how often you meet certain types of monsters) Elec strike is again the worst strike. What actually makes the Fire strike so much worse than the other elemental strikes? I did read the Research for 1H, but is this really the only reason for Fire strike being bad?

One thing that comes to mind is monster distribution: Looking at high PL monsters, you'll mostly find Giants, Dragons Anthropods and Celestials. Fire Strike is bad against all of them, while other Elemental Strikes offer at least some benefit. Elec is somewhat strong against Giants while Wind helps against Dragons and Giants. Cold Strike works great with Fire Shield proc, regardless of any monster weaknesses.

4th choice , you can donate some for me , sapo (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I'll think about it when I will complete a full-forged slaughter and fully-forged mage set.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

I guess I was lucky with my rapier http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=3ee03aaaea . It had 51+ ADB unforged. I was ready to drop all my credits on a good rapier when it dropped from RE.

This post has been edited by Madprank: Jul 3 2016, 05:11

I guess I was lucky with my rapier http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=3ee03aaaea . It had 51+ ADB unforged. I was ready to drop all my credits on a good rapier when it dropped from RE.

realoly luck. nice rolls and such IW...

I'm personally more interested in seeing ADBs, turns etc etc of the best players in HV that to see people posting shit like credits balance (really, why would anyone care?).

Agreed, sharing knowledge means faster progress. Trying to win is what makes a game fun after all.

I guess I was lucky with my rapier http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=3ee03aaaea . It had 51+ ADB unforged. I was ready to drop all my credits on a good rapier when it dropped from RE.

Wow that IW. Would Holy instead of Dark be the only possible improvement or negligible?

And apart from the lack of burden/interference whats the advantage of ethereal over elemental rapiers? All elemental weapons are guaranteed to get hollowforged at IW10 which makes it a ethereal minus burden/interference and the values seems small enough to be nulled after a featherweight enchant whilst you have to gamble the elemental strike on a perfect IW on ethereal weapons?

My rapier is similiar with yours and has almost peerless ADB. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The only meaningful upgrade would be a peerless rapier. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I almost got one, but I just came second place in the latest auction. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

This post has been edited by Mantra64: Jul 3 2016, 13:21

Agreed, sharing knowledge means faster progress. Trying to win is what makes a game fun after all.

yep. but seeing the same people who post the very same result (or slightly different) day after day, week after week... is it fun as well?

Wow that IW. Would Holy instead of Dark be the only possible improvement or negligible?

Holy would be a slight downgrade. Dark performs slightly better on the average mob pool.

My rapier is similiar with yours and has almost peerless ADB. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

didn't you have a 4PAB Leg rapier? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

So, what do you call a guy that buys 3 different legendary rapiers all with 50+ ADB, 2 of them ethereal but apparently doesn't use them?
Not trying to call anybody out, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they'd spend that much money.

So, what do you call a guy that buys 3 different legendary rapiers all with 50+ ADB, 2 of them ethereal but apparently doesn't use them?
Not trying to call anybody out, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they'd spend that much money.

one reason may be to be sure to have at least one of them.

it's not that absurd of a thinking.

one reason may be to be sure to have at least one of them.

it's not that absurd of a thinking.

One of what? He already owns one of the rapiers.

yep. but seeing the same people who post the very same result (or slightly different) day after day, week after week... is it fun as well?
Holy would be a slight downgrade. Dark performs slightly better on the average mob pool.
didn't you have a 4PAB Leg rapier? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This one did cost me a lot back then. Legendary Fiery Rapier of Slaughter

yep. but seeing the same people who post the very same result (or slightly different) day after day, week after week... is it fun as well?

If it doesn't contribute to a discussion ala brag post then its pretty pointless, speaking of which we have plenty of pointless threads, pointless rants of being poor and pointless rants about the lack of rng/drops.

So, what do you call a guy that buys 3 different legendary rapiers all with 50+ ADB, 2 of them ethereal but apparently doesn't use them?
Not trying to call anybody out, but I'm genuinely curious as to why they'd spend that much money.

Perhaps inside info on the incoming nerf to maging and a subtle investment (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)