[X] My Assistant

I already stopped making more monster beacuse those gluttons eat crystals by the thousands and barely bring in anything useful.

How so? You can just use happy pills at 500c each and items Crystal Phason brings in 290k each, binding of slaughter/protection/cheetah 50k each.

You can train and hath to increase happy pills and lower moral drain even further. It's the easiest low effort way to get casual credits in the bank, you don't even need to do combat or dawn of a new day.

Honestly with the 60K price per chaos token (From PA) and no longer being account bound it's only going to be more attractive to build monster labs. Assuming the prices for food/crystals increases, that benefits the 'real' players who sell them too, of course.

This post has been edited by Hexxuus: Mar 28 2023, 03:06

FWIW, the response I *have* gotten from the mods who "at least play the game and at least partially understand it" on IRC after the fact is:

<Noni> Personally I think this is a good thing. It was a real problem for regular players that some people could seemingly spend 24 hours per day on HV

<nezu> it was inevitable that -something- would need to become untradeable at some point

Energy Drinks being farmable was a problem and because of that they are no longer farmable. That's the long and short of it.

Like those mods, I don't disagree with your motivation for Energy Drink restriction.
In fact I would fully support this move if artifact value (or any other item value) weren't collateral damage.

There is a huge difference between the system creating credits every time someone hands in an item, and another player trading you for it. And I'm not going to create a precedence of "items that drop in value due to an update get bailed out".

It doesn't have to be a credit handout that would probably cause runaway inflation; I don't want that either.
Instead you can follow up on what you already did by adding new outcomes to artifact rolls that would make artifacts great again.
It would be a much appreciated gesture and an improvement to the game if you could consider Noni's idea a few posts back about an arena reset item as a new artifact roll.

By pack you mean 1000 of each, yeah? It would still give just one type of crystals, but I could probably bump up the count a bit without upsetting the market, seeing as it's true that fewer EDs means fewer crystals gained from battle. I'll mull it over for a bit, but uh, don't sell them too cheap in the meantime.

That also helps.
Even a tenfold twelvefold increase in crystal count can't change market value by much as crystals are already trading very near the minimum value of 1 credit, especially the elemental resistance crystals.

This post has been edited by sabregimp: Mar 28 2023, 06:09

How so? You can just use happy pills at 500c each and items Crystal Phason brings in 290k each, binding of slaughter/protection/cheetah 50k each.

After doing some math I started investing the chaos tokens on scavenging upgrades.

If you want some numbers, I have a single monster over level 500. I look every day if there are gifts and I have been noting any gifs it brings me. Starting from 2021-12-26 until now, accounting for every single item at today's market price, it has made me 179054 credits.
Sadly this poor bastard hasn't brought any crystal phazon during that time. I have only seen about five of those since I started playing. I guess I'm unlucky.
Anyway, that's ~12k/month.

At the time I noted I needed '~133548c' to grow it to level 500 in one go.
Fifteen months and it has barely given back the credits I invested to get it over level 500.
Also, feeding this Lv 500 monster (the bare minimum to bring high grade mats) with crystals instead of pills, so it can grow further, took me ~6K a month during the first two months and I guess it is steadily increasing. I just stopped noting it aftert that.
So it's real profit is maybe 6k/month and decreasing over time as long as I keep growing it.

Of course I could just feed it pills instead like you suggest and take the whole profit, but low level monsters lose happiness A LOT faster than high level ones. This mechanism encourages players to grow the levels of the monsters up to a certain point. Using happy pills instead feels like a waste. Also, this monster that is now level 644 has brought only 12 high grade mats during those 15 months. That doesn't look like it will be enough if I want to forge any legendary equipment. That screams to me that I still have to keep investing crystals in it instead of giving it happy pills. Otherwise I shouldn't have bothered to level it up at all.

I'm sure that players that can invest millions in their monsters and give them chaos tokens can turn a profit very fast, but as I said as a casual player the monster lab isn't such a great source of income compared with fighting in the daily encounters, arenas, and ring of blood.

Anyway, going back to my original intention. I was just saying that I fear this change will make it even more difficult to get crystals to maintain and grow my little monster lab. I just wanted to share my thoughts as a casual player since everyone else here looked like high level players that have been playing for a long time.

Sadly this poor bastard hasn't brought any crystal phazon during that time. I have only seen about five of those since I started playing. I guess I'm unlucky.
Anyway, that's ~12k/month.

At the time I noted I needed '~133548c' to grow it to level 500 in one go.
Fifteen months and it has barely given back the credits I invested to get it over level 500.
Also, feeding this Lv 500 monster (the bare minimum to bring high grade mats) with crystals instead of pills, so it can grow further, took me ~6K a month during the first two months and I guess it is steadily increasing. I just stopped noting it aftert that.
So it's real profit is maybe 6k/month and decreasing over time as long as I keep growing it.

Well for reference, I have 15 monsters between level 500~600, and I get on average, 1 Phazon roughly every 6 weeks. It's nice, but not really enough to consider it as a major source of income for me.

By pack you mean 1000 of each, yeah? It would still give just one type of crystals, but I could probably bump up the count a bit without upsetting the market, seeing as it's true that fewer EDs means fewer crystals gained from battle. I'll mull it over for a bit, but uh, don't sell them too cheap in the meantime.

I did suggested to give 1k of each type when it roll crystals too, even that is not enough to cover the decrease of crystals in market and the value of PA.

I was planned to upgrade all my monsters above plvl1000, which will cost me about 15k packs of the crystals, values about 250M credits before the update. That was supposed to take me some years, but the update almost says: you will never make it now. Honestly that hurt me more than the big lost of my hoarded PAs and the trainings. Before the update it's just the time issue to collect enough credits, but after the update I think I can't even buy that amount in market.

It will cost 5k packs if you want to full upgrade one monster, and assuming we get them all from PAs and now the PA give a full crystal pack instead of one type only, then still need 12.5k PAs to upgrade one monster, or 2,500,000 PAs for 200 full upgraded monsters, that's super high amount in anyway. The upgrading of high level monsters were already sky high expensive before the update and act a big credit sinker, decrease the source will further increase the cost and result the give-up only, I don't think anyone will spend 560M to buy crystals in item shop to upgrade one monster. So we do need more crystals from PA, may probably even need more than 1 crystal pack each PA to cover that decrease, as the update also decrease the PA income

I'm sure that players that can invest millions in their monsters and give them chaos tokens can turn a profit very fast, but as I said as a casual player the monster lab isn't such a great source of income compared with fighting in the daily encounters, arenas, and ring of blood.

Anyway, going back to my original intention. I was just saying that I fear this change will make it even more difficult to get crystals to maintain and grow my little monster lab. I just wanted to share my thoughts as a casual player since everyone else here looked like high level players that have been playing for a long time.

The monster lab will never become a great source of income, high level monster cost more if you want to grow them up for sure, the full upgraded monster will never even get their cost pay back in the life time, the high-end player just do that for fun, or just as time-consumer. If you raise them only for profits, then you shouldn't raise them that high, just make them stay low level and they give you more profits even if their morale drain faster. The update do increase the difficulty to raise the monsters, but I don't think a "high level player" benefit than the "casual player"

With the decreased activity of bot farmers, crystal prices will go up and probably monster food too.
EDs will go up in price, bot farmers will keep buying them as long as it is profitable and compete with each other, until supply and demand stabilizes. Their margings will thin out and there should be less of them.
Gold star members that sell their ED will eat most of the bot farmers income and get a few millions of credits every month.

To sum it up, poorer poor players as the crystal and food prices increase while the PA decreases in value. Less bot users as the price of ED increase. Richer gold star players as the ED price soars to the sky.

Yeah I had thought of this too. It seems like the gap between gold star and silver star just grew bigger. There was already a big exp and daily income jump to gold star to begin with though, so if there is any best place to cut off granting an energy drink, seems like this is the right place.

You could always just make ED completely untradeable; maybe things are best that way. In any case this is a secondary problem, so I hadn't brought it up. Also maybe the market won't evolve as we predict, especially if artifacts are still going to be tweaked.

I pushed some tweaks to PA rewards. They now give 5000 crystals up from 1000, and if you roll Last Elixir it now gives you three of them.

You could always just make ED completely untradeable; maybe things are best that way. In any case this is a secondary problem, so I hadn't brought it up. Also maybe the market won't evolve as we predict, especially if artifacts are still going to be tweaked.

PAs would also have to have been made untradeable for this to be a viable solution to the original problem. I'm not going to do that since it would be a worse solution overall in several ways, but just saying.

That's a cool change, definitely brings up the value of a PA.

Rant:
While I don't care about the first PA change I do find it annoying about the latest PA change but only because it seems to be brought about by ppl compaining about their personal losses. What if something that PA drops becomes so valuable that PA cost 50k, are you going to adjust it so the price will come back down to 20k? Probably not but that's what I see is happening now. 10 years ago PA(the equivalent of PA)dropped slightly different stuff and their value was closer to 10k, I don't remember you adjusting them to keep their prices stable so stop doing that now.

Since you are now changing things when players complain, make all my peerless the equivalent of current peerless!
/Rant

Since you are now changing things when players complain, make all my peerless the equivalent of current peerless!

FWIW, that's one ranty wish you might just be granted by default.

FWIW, that's one ranty wish you might just be granted by default.

I GUESSED that might happen by the way it was described the work you needed to do for the equipment update 😊😊😊
Between now and then who knows if it'll happen but I still remain hopeful, lol

What if something that PA drops becomes so valuable that PA cost 50k, are you going to adjust it so the price will come back down to 20k? Probably not but that's what I see is happening now. 10 years ago PA(the equivalent of PA)dropped slightly different stuff and their value was closer to 10k, I don't remember you adjusting them to keep their prices stable so stop doing that now.
/Rant

That's because almost no one complains about gaining wealth,
whereas almost everyone has a problem with losing wealth.
All the more if the drop is steep, affects everyone, and is just a side effect that could be mitigated without compromising the main effect.

Maybe your /Rant isn't supposed to be taken too seriously,
but why try to stop these tweaks?
Everyone (re)gains from them.

Interesting update. Well I play pretty consistently I'll do the arenas and then maybe a grindfest. Arenas and 2 grindfests a day would be the max its usally only one grindfest thou. That is enough to bring my stamina down to 55 in a day from 99. Well 2 energy drinks and long gone before daylight is enough to cover that. I will lose about 5 stamina a day.
It was hard to run out of stamina before this update. You could essentially be playing non stop with energy drinks. You would also tend to get more energy drinks from doing grindfests than consuming them. Even before this update my energy drink stash would go up and up even with daily use. Right now I have 300 energy drinks. Its not much but they will last me a long time if I play the same way as I do now.
I would like to have another tier to long gone before daylight. So two energy drinks will give double the stamina instead of one. That way I won't be affected as much by the stamina drain when I want to do two grindfests in a day.

This post has been edited by Hinoka: Mar 28 2023, 19:45

I have close to 1000 artifacts saved up, which used to be worth maybe around 17m.

oops i just bought 17m of PAs cuz I saw ED prices go up. Then I started shrining and it dawned on me things have changed. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

What's the rationale behind limiting EDs?

edit: nm, I read something about farming. Got it.

This post has been edited by treesloth: Mar 28 2023, 20:02

Could we have the option to toggle on or off great stamina as the additional stamina drain from great makes it harder for normal players as we lose over 40 stamina before we get below great status.

This is a good idea, but our offensive stats are reduced by some percentage.


My only issue with limiting EDs, is item world is going to take months, given how difficult it is to get the potency you want.

This post has been edited by treesloth: Mar 28 2023, 20:18

Interesting update. Well I play pretty consistently I'll do the arenas and then maybe a grindfest. Arenas and 2 grindfests a day would be the max its usally only one grindfest thou. That is enough to bring my stamina down to 55 in a day from 99. Well 2 energy drinks and long gone before daylight is enough to cover that. I will lose about 5 stamina a day.
It was hard to run out of stamina before this update. You could essentially be playing non stop with energy drinks. You would also tend to get more energy drinks from doing grindfests than consuming them. Even before this update my energy drink stash would go up and up even with daily use. Right now I have 300 energy drinks. Its not much but they will last me a long time if I play the same way as I do now.
I would like to have another tier to long gone before daylight. So two energy drinks will give double the stamina instead of one. That way I won't be affected as much by the stamina drain when I want to do two grindfests in a day.

High Five (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Interesting update. Well I play pretty consistently I'll do the arenas and then maybe a grindfest. Arenas and 2 grindfests a day would be the max its usally only one grindfest thou. That is enough to bring my stamina down to 55 in a day from 99. Well 2 energy drinks and long gone before daylight is enough to cover that. I will lose about 5 stamina a day.
It was hard to run out of stamina before this update. You could essentially be playing non stop with energy drinks. You would also tend to get more energy drinks from doing grindfests than consuming them. Even before this update my energy drink stash would go up and up even with daily use. Right now I have 300 energy drinks. Its not much but they will last me a long time if I play the same way as I do now.
I would like to have another tier to long gone before daylight. So two energy drinks will give double the stamina instead of one. That way I won't be affected as much by the stamina drain when I want to do two grindfests in a day.

Try to ignore the first 2 arenas, which are useless in experience, and I only lost 2 stamina every day.

I pushed some tweaks to PA rewards. They now give 5000 crystals up from 1000, and if you roll Last Elixir it now gives you three of them.
PAs would also have to have been made untradeable for this to be a viable solution to the original problem. I'm not going to do that since it would be a worse solution overall in several ways, but just saying.

10k pls

How so? You can just use happy pills at 500c each and items Crystal Phason brings in 290k each, binding of slaughter/protection/cheetah 50k each.

You can train and hath to increase happy pills and lower moral drain even further. It's the easiest low effort way to get casual credits in the bank, you don't even need to do combat or dawn of a new day.

Honestly with the 60K price per chaos token (From PA) and no longer being account bound it's only going to be more attractive to build monster labs. Assuming the prices for food/crystals increases, that benefits the 'real' players who sell them too, of course.

Why are players rise the monsters' PL&Updater(chaos token)?
→To make monsters more powerful,more active in GFest,and bring more headshot(One headshot =one Valuable material Like Crystallized Phazon).
→due to stamina limited and high price EDs,you will find you dig more GFest you lose more credits.
→So why still doing GFest?
→Less players thus less GFest,your monsters got few and few reward compare with your Crystal packs throwed into the monster lab.
→If(or then) you do not need to play GFest,BONUS your monster seems can't pay off itselves for a long time,so do easy Arenas will be the main and daily quest.
→Now whats your feeling about this?

This post has been edited by unitready: Mar 29 2023, 08:16

Try to ignore the first 2 arenas, which are useless in experience, and I only lost 2 stamina every day.

I can't ignore the arenas. They might drop a chaos!

This post has been edited by Hinoka: Mar 29 2023, 08:45

oh no unitready became a vtuber. unitready is a girl