[X] My Assistant

Youshi has cleared one time and half the number of floors of the person placed second, aka you.
That in HV scaling means 3-4x the difficulty if not more.

Let's check. From Floor 180 to Floor 100 the rounds difference would be about 80 * 5 = 400 rounds which corresponds to +800% damage with item world round scaling. However Floor 100 was already roughly 450 rounds and +900% damage. So it's 1800%/1000% damage, or 1.8x monster damage.

The 80 floor difference would also have gone from PFUDOR +12 to PFUDOR +28 which was another 16 * 5% = +80% increase in damage. Floor 100 was already +60% damage, so it's 240%/160% or 1.5x monster damage.

Assuming multiplicative stacking, that's 1.8 * 1.5 = 2.7 times damage. Plus the monster levels would increase from 1000 to 1800 and studying the complex monster stat scaling formulas this would increase their damage by roughly 1.8 * 0.9 ≈ 1.6 times (strength and dexterity contribution to damage is logarithmic and by this high level is reduced to about 0.3 times compared to level one). So it's about 4 times more damage, you're right. :)

(Note that monster health would increase, too. From level 1000 to 1800, the monster stat scaling formulas suggest that health would either increase roughly 1.8 times, or 1.8 * 1.8 = 3.24 times if the HV 0.85 level_mod scaler doesn't actually cap at level 500 as originally intended. And there would also be the 1.5x health increase from going from PFUDOR +12 to PFUDOR +28).

Still, I think it's believable. We know that the group near Floor 100 includes Nezu, who was using DW which while it worked well for a long time in the tower, eventually limited him and he took too much damage.

Someone who chose a different style or switched to it earlier may have made Floor 180. Sabregimp was also at Floor 100 and he used the same 1H style as me I think, but he probably didn't play as constantly, or just enough to make top 10 as there's no point to doing more.

At some point I think damage sort of caps out, and given enough time I think someone could go up nearly unlimited floors in the season 1 tower if they had the right fighting style (perhaps not 1H Heavy). Damage you can take gets limited by either you sparking (and then getting nearly invincible for 3 turns afterwards) and/or the Spirit Shield drain limits for health and also spirit (which high level players normally never reach, but we would reach it in the tower, and low level players also reach it in persistent).

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Jun 24 2021, 22:21

I was wondering - and i dont know whether it was discussed in the past:

Would it be possible to carry some of the XP we earn in isekai over to persistent ? For example, like it is in diablo 3 seasons, something along those lines, if you are familiar.
Does nothing to maxxed out players, helps simple, mid lvl folks, like me.

Just an idea, dont burn me for it please (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)

This is more of a minor bug than anything, but you know how you gain a Mastery Point on every 10th level?

I reached Lv 90 in isekai and got a mastery point and there's supposed to be a message in the battle screen about it, except that it doesn't appear until I reached the next level.

I'm not sure if it's a display bug or what.

Will have to see the changes, but I liked having the low level arenas available and given my limited play time restrictions usually chose to do them in lieu of the higher level arenas.

• They allow poor but hardworking players to do more arenas per day in total and make more credits
• They allow very poor players without free time to quickly earn a few 1000 credit completion bonuses per day
• They allow players who wish to keep their level low to earn credits without an Exp modifier
• Low level arenas are good and fun for building deprecating proficiency without having to use mana draughts
• Certain arenas have different size mobs which could be useful for playtests
• If you are ultra weak, pathetic, and ill-equipped, even a high level player might only be able to do the lowest arenas (imagine if you are robbed of all your credits and left to fight naked)

I agree with this. I don't have time for it any more so I've just been doing the lowest level arena for the bonus skillup that you have to play one round to get.

It costs a lot of time to clear pfudor DWD in isekai.I want the low difficulty DWD still available.

Can we have the monster density raised in the early rounds of the high-level arenas?

The number of 3-monster rounds in End of Days makes it an enormous waste of stamina to actually play, and that's more important now in isekai - but if the same is still the case with Eternal Darkness the same applies there. It'd be nice to have them increased in early Dance with Dragons, too. And if the new arenas are like that also... it would be sad!

On the other hand, those rounds could be removed entirely and we could just jump straight into the boss rounds. That would also be great.

Thanks!

Can we have the monster density raised in the early rounds of the high-level arenas?

The number of 3-monster rounds in End of Days makes it an enormous waste of stamina to actually play, and that's more important now in isekai - but if the same is still the case with Eternal Darkness the same applies there. It'd be nice to have them increased in early Dance with Dragons, too. And if the new arenas are like that also... it would be sad!

On the other hand, those rounds could be removed entirely and we could just jump straight into the boss rounds. That would also be great.

Thanks!

A Dance With Dragons now forces PFUDOR difficulty

We don't need monster density raised in the early rounds,
Because the difficulty forces PFUDOR,
the Isekai Arenas is not only for the hardcore player,
a lot of people play Isekai just for the free "Follower of Snowflake"
Iimprove the difficulty to get Trophies will reduce the amount of Isekai player
So keep it with the three monsters is better,

Assuming multiplicative stacking, that's 1.8 * 1.5 = 2.7 times damage.

Plus the monster levels would increase from 1000 to 1800 and studying the complex monster stat scaling formulas this would increase their damage by roughly 1.6 times (strength and dexterity contribution to damage is logarithmic and by this high level is reduced to about 0.3 0.25 times compared to level one). So it's about 4 times more damage, you're right. :)

Made some partial mistakes on this part. Monster damage is increasing at a rough rate of 1.8 * 0.75 ≈ 1.3 times more damage around level 1000.

And actually that's not correct either, because it doesn't take into account the "starting pool" of monster damage that builds up at lower levels, before the logarithmic scaling of damage with strength and dexterity becomes flatter and more linear. Although when I properly took that into account, the answer was roughly the same 1.3 times more damage increase from level 1000 to 1800.

So overall a 3.5 times damage increase in the tower, just as Santa said.

We don't need monster density raised in the early rounds,
Because the difficulty forces PFUDOR,
the Isekai Arenas is not only for the hardcore player,
a lot of people play Isekai just for the free "Follower of Snowflake"
Iimprove the difficulty to get Trophies will reduce the amount of Isekai player
So keep it with the three monsters is better,

High-level challenges are meant to be a logical succession, in terms of both difficulty and reward, from the earlier arenas. If you can't handle them, play the lower level stuff until you can. If you're too incompetent to manage even that, why should you be rewarded for it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

edit: do you realise that there are no SGs in the rounds I'm talking about? The 2- and 3-monster rounds at the very beginning just waste time. If you can handle the later rounds with SGs in them, you can handle say, 5 monsters to start with instead - or remove those rounds altogether, so it's less of a waste of stamina.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jun 25 2021, 21:06

We don't need monster density raised in the early rounds,
Because the difficulty forces PFUDOR,
the Isekai Arenas is not only for the hardcore player,
a lot of people play Isekai just for the free "Follower of Snowflake"
Iimprove the difficulty to get Trophies will reduce the amount of Isekai player
So keep it with the three monsters is better,

What?
On season 1 isekai I was doing PFUDOR DwD a couple of weeks in already.
I don't get the hard part about it.
DwD has always been just a very long arena, and with tedious last 37 rounds.

I second the part about making the early rounds with more monsters.

I would also add an extra reason: with less than 4 monsters 1h can't keep perma spirit stance consistently (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

We don't need monster density raised in the early rounds,
Because the difficulty forces PFUDOR,
the Isekai Arenas is not only for the hardcore player,
a lot of people play Isekai just for the free "Follower of Snowflake"
Iimprove the difficulty to get Trophies will reduce the amount of Isekai player
So keep it with the three monsters is better,

It's not solely about isekai though, since these get transferred over to persistent (and note: in isekai, on pfudor, you can play sg arenas with piss poor equipped melee as quick as a persistent high level mid forged mage because of the sg nerf...its really not as hard as you make it out to be)

But the people only grinding trophies aren't the only players, anyone seriously competing needs to avoid some arenas because the rewards don't logically scale with arena challenge, it makes sense for higher level arena challenges to increase in both difficulty and reward which they don't currently, because of so few monsters in the rounds

I would love to see proper arena difficulty/monster density progression in both isekai and persistent, and I say that as a relatively casual player that only really does arenas and the odd IW (generally, sudden urge to get exp with this update excepting)

I always remember its a game rather than a credit grinding farm

Why fight for higher level challenges only for those challenges to be easier than the ones you fought to get there

Can we have the monster density raised in the early rounds of the high-level arenas?

The number of 3-monster rounds in End of Days makes it an enormous waste of stamina to actually play, and that's more important now in isekai - but if the same is still the case with Eternal Darkness the same applies there. It'd be nice to have them increased in early Dance with Dragons, too. And if the new arenas are like that also... it would be sad!

On the other hand, those rounds could be removed entirely and we could just jump straight into the boss rounds. That would also be great.

Thanks!

I second this idea, perhaps the ideal is doing the same as done the past: reducing the rounds and increasing the density to get more and less the same number of mobs in total arena challenge.

yeah, please more monsters or school girls, i've done end of days 2 times now and i'm already regretting it :c

This post has been edited by lololo16: Jun 25 2021, 21:33

High-level challenges are meant to be a logical succession, in terms of both difficulty and reward, from the earlier arenas. If you can't handle them, play the lower level stuff until you can. If you're too incompetent to manage even that, why should you be rewarded for it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

edit: do you realise that there are no SGs in the rounds I'm talking about? The 2- and 3-monster rounds at the very beginning just waste time. If you can handle the later rounds with SGs in them, you can handle say, 5 monsters to start with instead - or remove those rounds altogether, so it's less of a waste of stamina.

DWD is level 300 AR not 400 or 500
so forces PFUDOR difficulty is wrong step in the first
the 400 AR, 500 AR forces PFUDOR difficulty, I will applaud

if the first turn is three SGs.
Good, I support you.
Because the SG is easy to play than player's monster

What?
On season 1 isekai I was doing PFUDOR DwD a couple of weeks in already.
I don't get the hard part about it.
DwD has always been just a very long arena, and with tedious last 37 rounds.

I second the part about making the early rounds with more monsters.

I would also add an extra reason: with less than 4 monsters 1h can't keep perma spirit stance consistently (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

A richer spned 1000 USD in One meal, and he think it very cheap.
Do you Agree with him.
I think not, because I'm not rich like him.
So you think it's not hard, Does not mean other people think it too.

It's not solely about isekai though, since these get transferred over to persistent (and note: in isekai, on pfudor, you can play sg arenas with piss poor equipped melee as quick as a persistent high level mid forged mage because of the sg nerf...its really not as hard as you make it out to be)

But the people only grinding trophies aren't the only players, anyone seriously competing needs to avoid some arenas because the rewards don't logically scale with arena challenge, it makes sense for higher level arena challenges to increase in both difficulty and reward which they don't currently, because of so few monsters in the rounds

I would love to see proper arena difficulty/monster density progression in both isekai and persistent, and I say that as a relatively casual player that only really does arenas and the odd IW (generally, sudden urge to get exp with this update excepting)

I always remember its a game rather than a credit grinding farm

Why fight for higher level challenges only for those challenges to be easier than the ones you fought to get there

because this topic is about of Isekai.
In Persistent, I also think it too difficult.
We can't think it easy to us, so we don't care the low level player.

PFUDOR DwD does seem to defeat even low level 1H players with Exquisite gear, especially if they are foolish enough to insist on Exquisite power armor (when Exquisite plate might get them through) which most players do on Persistent. Probably they could struggle through it with Weaken but you don't want to be using that on SGs since it might not last long enough at low level.

I find the small mobs in the beginning of DwD and the SG arenas to serve a purpose. They screw up 1H players who use Haste or Imperil too much by making the spirit stance run out. It's a negative but also a challenge which I enjoy, because it is barely possible to weather the hungry times and make it through without running out of spirit stance even with Haste on.

I think the 2x drop rate of isekai might be too generous. Are gems also dropping at 2x the rate? That kind of makes the game too easy. If credits and equipment also drop at 2x the rate then isekai could become more profitable than persistent after your character is powered up reasonably.

I find the small mobs in the beginning of DwD and the SG arenas to serve a purpose. They screw up 1H players who use Haste or Imperil too much by making the spirit stance run out. It's a negative but also a challenge which I enjoy, because it is barely possible to weather the hungry times and make it through without running out of spirit stance even with Haste on.

To be honest, my biggest concern is exp/stamina (and drops/stamina to a lesser extent). It doesn't actually matter very much to me - as a wealthy player on persistent, I can afford the EDs, and it's not like the difficulty makes any difference to me. But grinding through 50 3-monster rounds is a lot of extra unrewarding work at poor stamina conversion, and that really draws out the times for low-level and melee players.

I think the 2x drop rate of isekai might be too generous. Are gems also dropping at 2x the rate? That kind of makes the game too easy. If credits and equipment also drop at 2x the rate then isekai could become more profitable than persistent after your character is powered up reasonably.

We have 2x drop rate on isekai because we also have 2x stamina costs for everything (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

It does mean that if you have very limited time, you might be better off doing your daily arenas on isekai as a priority, but that's offset a little by the build-up time to get your character ready and up to a similar speed (even with the half-health SGs). Plus I presume anyone with very limited time isn't playing isekai anyway, or frankly, HV at all.

The game should definitely be balanced for the people who actually play it, I think.

PFUDOR DwD does seem to defeat even low level 1H players with Exquisite gear

If isekai has taught me anything, it's that this isn't true at all. trash gear and a buckler of protection (lol) was enough for pfudoring dwd

I take back what I said about Exquisite players in PFUDOR DwD, I was recalling low level 1H players in Item World instead. I remember now that SG arenas are even easier than regular arenas in terms of survival.

At around level 140 which I am currently at, I can only do Hell or IWBTH difficulty with Exquisite gear in DW style. I think it varies by level, even post HV 0.85. At lower levels I could do higher difficulties (due to residual level 1 starting stats) and at higher levels likewise I believe higher difficulties again become naturally possible (though clear times also get worse naturally).

I think at least the Gem drop rate should not be doubled in isekai. That too drastically improves the survivability/sustainability of a player.

At around level 140 which I am currently at, I can only do Hell or IWBTH difficulty with Exquisite gear in DW style. I think it varies by level, even post HV 0.85. At lower levels I could do higher difficulties (due to residual level 1 starting stats) and at higher levels likewise I believe higher difficulties again become naturally possible (though clear times also get worse naturally).

I think at least the Gem drop rate should not be doubled in isekai. That too drastically improves the survivability/sustainability of a player.

Apparently not by so much that you can trivially do PFUDOR (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Gems are really small compared to potions, and they're still only 1 per round maximum (since the drops only happen at the end of a round), so it's not too much of a concern.

I agree , make the minimum monster start 5 from Longest Journey and beyond, kinda annoying how Longest Journey and 2 others are already 5 but the higher lvl arenas were reduced. Also decrease the rounds to add the next monster.