[X] My Assistant

According to the wiki when shrining trophies regardless of FoS:
What happens to this flat peerless chance when shrining upgraded trophies?
Does it behave as if it was one trophy or the roll is done for every upgraded one?

That's actually incorrect; I think it's a misinterpretation of an old statement, but I'll have to wait for Tenboro to confirm exactly what it means. It's at least easy to confirm it's false; noodles have a significantly higher peerless chance than lower trophies, as do stocking stuffers and other seasonal trophies.

There are two potential cases:

- Trophies have a quality roll which can produce a peerless at the appropriate rate
or
- Trophies have an independent base peerless chance each, unrelated to their quality roll

I believe it's the latter, and I thought I had some evidence on this related to the way peerlesses are normally generated (with a static difficulty modifier unrelated to the quality roll), but unfortunately I seem to have lost it...

Anyway, at least to answer your question - the merged trophy roll is treated as a single T5 roll (equivalent to using a unicorn horn). So it'll have a peerless chance equivalent to the peerless chance of a unicorn horn, whatever that is.

That's actually incorrect; I think it's a misinterpretation of an old statement, but I'll have to wait for Tenboro to confirm exactly what it means. It's at least easy to confirm it's false; noodles have a significantly higher peerless chance than lower trophies, as do stocking stuffers and other seasonal trophies.

Ok, that makes sense, I found 2 places on the wiki that will need correcting once proper information is known:
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Shrine#Trophies
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Loot_Drop_Rolls#Loot_Rolls (E.Quality Roll row)

Every trophy tier has a fixed chance to return an equipment piece of each given quality tier. As far as upgrading goes, you'll have a much higher chance to get a peerless with 1x T5 roll compared to 32x T2 rolls

Every trophy tier has a fixed chance to return an equipment piece of each given quality tier. As far as upgrading goes, you'll have a much higher chance to get a peerless with 1x T5 roll compared to 32x T2 rolls

Do you mind giving the fixed chances per tier? At least for peerless, but it'd be very nice to know legendary as well - we can make feasible assumptions about lower qualities from data.

This post has been edited by Nezu: Jan 31 2021, 17:27

It has been reported in the past that we now longer have a wiki link in hentaiverse.
I was looking around the page code and saw it was like that:

CODE

<div>
    <div id="level_readout"><div class="fc4 far fcb" style="width:108px"><div>IWBTH Lv.471</div></div></div>
    <div id="level_details" class="nc" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden;">
        <div>
            <p>3,109,358,814,081 / 3,221,381,035,207</p>
            <p>Next: 112,022,221,126</p>
        </div>
    </div>
</div>
<a href="http://alt.hentaiverse.org/isekai/">
    </a>
<div><a href="http://alt.hentaiverse.org/isekai/">
        <div id="world_readout"><div class="fc4 far fcb" style="width:98px"><div>Persistent</div></div></div></a>
        <div id="world_text" class="nc" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden;">
            <div>
                <p>Currently playing on Persistent</p>
                <p>Click to switch to Isekai</p>
            </div>
        </div>
    </div>

Seeing the link to isekai appear twice, and the first time being outside of a div, and probably where the wiki link used to be, I feel like there may really be something wrong here.

Posting the quote since I feel like I didn't post in the right topic.
It's a bit confusing. Should both really stay open?

12 years ago, the Scavenger drop rate bonus was doubled but the training page wasn't updated to reflect that.

Is it still effectively a 2% increase to the base roll per level? The training page still says 1%. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, I've been asked a couple times in the last few days if spirit stance provides a defensive bonus. The wiki has no record of it and I researched release notes, but there's never been any mention of such a thing. Are those asking me this just imagining it?

This post has been edited by Nezu: Feb 6 2021, 21:35

12 years ago, the Scavenger drop rate bonus was doubled but the training page wasn't updated to reflect that.

Is it still effectively a 2% increase to the base roll per level? The training page still says 1%. :)

Also, I've been asked a couple times in the last few days if spirit stance provides a defensive bonus. The wiki has no record of it and I researched release notes, but there's never been any mention of such a thing. Are those asking me this just imagining it?

Finding that reference to the 2% Scavenger drop rate bonus is pretty amazing. I think it is safe to say that you would have come across a reference to extra defense from spirit stance if it existed. Spirit stance is already powerful enough as it is, so I believe this is a case of some wishful thinking.

SS is indeed quite powerful, but I believe also quite balanced. It's really only usable long-term in 1H mode, as the overcharge requirements can't really be met in any other mode - even in 1H, it's not so easy to keep the overcharge going unless you have 6-9 enemies or so per round. And it's realistically useless if you're going for mage, so maybe SS providing defensive capabilities for mages isn't that bad of an idea.

any balance updates for melee weapons? non-rapiers need some love I think

any balance updates for melee weapons? non-rapiers need some love I think

There might be some minor changes to how the melee damage types (slashing etc) function next season, but we'll see what there's time for.

For what it's worth, my opinion as a player is that all 1H weapons except axes currently have a good place; shortswords are an acceptable alternative to rapiers for imperil-style players (and everyone should be playing imperil if they care about speed anyway), clubs have their niche as the preferred DW main hand weapon due to stuns preventing parries, and wakizashis are primarily useful as off-hand weapons due to their high parry being enhanced further by the DW off-hand parry bonus.

Do merged trophy rolls simply appear as an option, once you have the required number of trophies?

Do merged trophy rolls simply appear as an option, once you have the required number of trophies?

Its based on the option you use in the settings page https://hentaiverse.org/?s=Character&ss=se

If you set it to tier 5, and need 8 dolls, it won't let you shrine until you have those 8 dolls, without changing the settings to go lower again

Its based on the option you use in the settings page https://hentaiverse.org/?s=Character&ss=se

If you set it to tier 5, and need 8 dolls, it won't let you shrine until you have those 8 dolls, without changing the settings to go lower again

Thank you. Yes, I saw that as soon as I looked for it...stupidly, I thought default was the NEW setting when I first setup Isekai.

The default option just sets it for you based on your level, similar to how titles can work

Level 200: Tier 2 => Tier 3 at a rate of 4:1
Level 300: Tier 3 => Tier 4 at a rate of 2:1
Level 400: Tier 4 => Tier 5 at a rate of 4:1

Edit: But unlike the title, you can set these manually to any upgrade amount even at level 1 if you want

This post has been edited by Shank: Mar 2 2021, 18:19

Question: Does Quartermaster/Archaeologist training decrease token drop chance?
The reason I ask is that I used to have a little more than 5 token of blood drop on average after clearing Lv 50-300 arena a few weeks ago, but now it's less than 5; the only thing that changed is the trainings. According to "Loot Drop Rolls" wiki page, I guess it's because Equipment Roll and Artifact Roll success rate increase with training, so the chance that it goes to token roll / item roll decreases. Is that how it works?
I know that the "Loot Drop Rolls" page is not accurate, e.g. the "Luck of the Draw" training is supposed to "+1% Base Rare Equipment Chance" and has nothing to do with the item roll, and "All trophies have 0.0001% chance for Peerless" is also misleading. Maybe the flowchart is also wrong, but I wonder if it gives an explanation to my token drop decrease, or if it's my misconception.

Further question: Does Tokenizer hath perk increase ToB drop? What is "random mob token" anyway... "random mob token"="ToB + CT" or something else? Am I the only one who is confused? Does this hath perk decrease the item drop chance, as implied by the flowchart on the wiki page?

This post has been edited by jy-laji: Mar 4 2021, 13:56

Question: Does Quartermaster/Archaeologist training decrease token drop chance?

Yes, although it is a small decrease.

The reason I ask is that I used to have a little more than 5 token of blood drop on average after clearing Lv 50-300 arena a few weeks ago, but now it's less than 5;

RNG is RNG, sample size of 5 is statistically meaningless

Does Tokenizer hath perk increase ToB drop?

Yes and No, it actually decreases it relative to chaos tokens, but should increase it in absolute terms. At least it if 0.76 patch notes are to be believed

What is "random mob token" anyway...

It is a token that was dropped by a monster, there are also tokens you receive as a arena clear bonus - those are not affected by Tokenizer

Does this hath perk decrease the item drop chance, as implied by the flowchart on the wiki page?

Yes, but it is very insignificant change.


The wiki is wrong in many aspects but I don't remember reading about that flow-chart image specifically being wrong so for now I would be inclined to believe it.
Just keep in mind that although I am pretty confident in what I wrote, only Tenboro can confirm or deny it with 100% certainty.

This post has been edited by Tenrag: Mar 4 2021, 20:27

Yes, although it is a small decrease.
RNG is RNG, sample size of 5 is statistically meaningless
Yes and No, it actually decreases it relative to chaos tokens, but should increase it in absolute terms. At least it if 0.76 patch notes are to be believed
It is a token that was dropped by a monster, there are also tokens you receive as a arena clear bonus - those are not affected by Tokenizer
Yes, but it is very insignificant change.
The wiki is wrong in many aspects but I don't remember reading about that flow-chart image specifically being wrong so for now I would be inclined to believe it.
Just keep in mind that although I am pretty confident in what I wrote, only Tenboro can confirm or deny it with 100% certainty.

Thank you. That answers the question qualitatively. I hope it's just RNG, but I wonder how much impact do the 4 trainings have on the token drop rate quantitatively (i.e. the change of the expectation value of ToB drops from clearing each arena before and after each of the 4 loot drop trainings is fully trained?). I agree that a sample size of 5 drops is too small, I'll have to wait for more days to see how the drop rate goes, although I can't test the drop rate before the trainings.

This post has been edited by jy-laji: Mar 4 2021, 22:34

Yes and No, it actually decreases it relative to chaos tokens, but should increase it in absolute terms. At least it if 0.76 patch notes are to be believed

Could you explain this part please? I don't see why tokenizer should change the 4:1 ratio for chaos/blood tokens.

The wiki is wrong in many aspects but I don't remember reading about that flow-chart image specifically being wrong so for now I would be inclined to believe it.
Just keep in mind that although I am pretty confident in what I wrote, only Tenboro can confirm or deny it with 100% certainty.

I'd say the flow chart is correct like you said but the Other_drop formula seems to be wrong because they forgot about the Token_drop formula, which should also be a factor in it, i.e., instead of

CODE

Other_drop = (Loot_drop - Equipment_drop - Artifact_drop) * (Base_other_drop)

it should be

CODE

Other_drop = (Loot_drop - Equipment_drop - Artifact_drop - Token_drop) * (Base_other_drop)

unless I'm missing something?

12 years ago, the Scavenger drop rate bonus was doubled but the training page wasn't updated to reflect that.

Is it still effectively a 2% increase to the base roll per level? The training page still says 1%. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Did you get any confirmation on this yet? It would be nice to be sure since the difference is huge for max drop rate

I've also confirmed a couple of incorrect formulas on the wiki section for character stats but the wiki doesn't seem to be edited anymore so it just feels pointless to report them at this point.

Could you explain this part please? I don't see why tokenizer should change the 4:1 ratio for chaos/blood tokens.

umm, the 0.76 patch notes I linked directly say that this ratio is changed by the Tokenizer so I am not sure what more is there to explain:

- Tokenizier now additionally increases the relative rate of Chaos Token drops.

Did you get any confirmation on this yet? It would be nice to be sure since the difference is huge for max drop rate

No confirmation yet, no.

I've also confirmed a couple of incorrect formulas on the wiki section for character stats but the wiki doesn't seem to be edited anymore so it just feels pointless to report them at this point.

The wiki is still maintained, but there's not really much activity because there's not many good sources if we need to change information, and few of the volunteers have time and interest in doing any of the bigger work right now (I know I don't have time to do the isekai stuff, unfortunately, so Noni's covered some of it). We can't rely on Joe to do it all for us anymore...

Anyway, if you do find proof that something is incorrect, and you have the correct information, please provide it over at the EHWiki report thread along with any sources or research you used to prove it.