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HV Research Thread, Let's find out how stuff really works |
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Jun 5 2021, 16:55
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Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,932
Joined: 29-January 12

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QUOTE(what_is_name @ Jun 5 2021, 12:21)  useless test #2: 0% cast speed bonus, no haste, cast 36 x Arcane Focus (and other actions are all item use which cost 0 action time), cost total 64 tick time ( from the scroll expire time ) so the Arcane Focus action time should be 64/36 = 1.778 tick, strange number too, but anyway much bigger than the wiki said. The Heartseeker should have similar time cost maybe
Nah, it's just 2x, there's a cast speed bonus from proficiency factor. Do you have somewhere around 475 supportive prof?
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Jun 5 2021, 18:17
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what_is_name
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 986
Joined: 5-May 19

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QUOTE(Nezu @ Jun 5 2021, 22:55)  Nah, it's just 2x, there's a cast speed bonus from proficiency factor. Do you have somewhere around 475 supportive prof?
oh that make sense. more or less, it's a Isekai test and I have about 1.1x level supportive prof there
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Jun 5 2021, 19:26
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Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,932
Joined: 29-January 12

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QUOTE(what_is_name @ Jun 5 2021, 17:17)  oh that make sense. more or less, it's a Isekai test and I have about 1.1x level supportive prof there
The cast speed bonus formula uses a slightly different factor to the counter-mitigation & counter-resist formulas - instead of being relative to monster level, it's relative to each spell's proficiency floor and ceiling. For example, Arcane Focus is castable with 0 prof, and the ceiling is thought to be 980 (uncertain) - so the formula is as follows: CODE spell_speed_bonus = min(0.25 * ( your_prof - 0 ) / (980 - 0), 0.25)
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Jun 6 2021, 03:59
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what_is_name
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 986
Joined: 5-May 19

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QUOTE(Nezu @ Jun 6 2021, 01:26)  The cast speed bonus formula uses a slightly different factor to the counter-mitigation & counter-resist formulas - instead of being relative to monster level, it's relative to each spell's proficiency floor and ceiling. For example, Arcane Focus is castable with 0 prof, and the ceiling is thought to be 980 (uncertain) - so the formula is as follows: CODE spell_speed_bonus = min(0.25 * ( your_prof - 0 ) / (980 - 0), 0.25) good to know that. I'm 424 sup prof when doing the test, so the Arcane Focus action time should be CODE 2 x (1-min(0.25 * ( 424 - 0 ) / (980 - 0), 0.25)) ≈ 1.784 as my test sample is small, that's close enough This post has been edited by what_is_name: Jun 6 2021, 04:33
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Jun 21 2021, 17:37
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what_is_name
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 986
Joined: 5-May 19

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QUOTE(what_is_name @ Jun 5 2021, 19:21)  useless test: CODE mACC |mEvaded |mHit |mEvaded chance --------|--------|-------|--------------- 190.0% |26 |1823 |1.43% 191.8% |19 |1952 |0.97% 192.6% |13 |2023 |0.64% 193.9% |8 |1998 |0.40% 194.0% |6 |2007 |0.30% 194.5% |9 |2062 |0.44% 194.7% |54 |56000 |0.15% 194.8% |0 |62963 |0.00% 194.9% |0 |61436 |0.00% 195.0% |0 |53842 |0.00%
test samples before 194.7% are small so the chance have no specific meanings, they just means: can be evaded and the samples after 194.7% are large enough that I think monsters can no longer evade you spells if you have over 194.8% macc. edit to add more test datas. no any spells evaded by monster in my test when macc over 194.8% further detailed test between 194.7% and 194.8% macc, calculating macc by CODE mAcc = 80 + WIS*0.04 + SUM(Equips_mAcc) + Prof_mAcc here are the results in Persistent and Isekai: CODE Persistent, lv.419 WIS = 981 SUM(Equips_mAcc) = 53.17 ProfMAcc = Cloth.Prof*0.05 + Staff.Prof*0(unslotted) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Clo.Prof |mAcc |mEvaded |mHit | mAcc on Character Statistics ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 446.032 |194.7116 |2 |6293 |194.7% 446.243 |194.7221 |3 |1865 | 446.327 |194.7263 |3 |3486 | 446.377 |194.7288 |3 |2677 | 446.431 |194.7315 |2 |1638 | 446.478 |194.7339 |1 |1590 | 446.509 |194.7354 |5 |1302 | 446.539 |194.7369 |0 |1257 | 446.566 |194.7383 |0 |1258 | 446.589 |194.7394 |0 |1232 | 446.606 |194.7403 |0 |1004 | ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 446.656 |194.7428 |0 |6316 |194.7%→194.8% ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 446.866 |194.7533 |0 |3534 |194.8% 446.927 |194.7563 |0 |2677 | 446.978 |194.7589 |0 |1923 | 447.031 |194.7615 |0 |1621 | 447.079 |194.7639 |0 |1704 | 447.124 |194.7662 |0 |1332 | 447.154 |194.7677 |0 |1295 | 447.185 |194.7692 |0 |1373 | 447.211 |194.7705 |0 |1256 | 447.234 |194.7717 |0 |1015 |
CODE Isekai, lv.389 WIS = 917 SUM(Equips_mAcc) = 49.24 ProfMAcc = Cloth.Prof*0.05 + Staff.Prof*0.02 = C/S.Prof*0.07(Staff.Prof=Cloth.Prof) ------------------------------------------------------------------ C/S.Prof |mAcc |mEvaded |mHit | mAcc on Character Statistics ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 411.685 |194.7380 |1 |998 |194.7% 411.693 |194.7385 |2 |1221 | 411.705 |194.7394 |5 |1323 | 411.717 |194.7402 |1 |1232 | 411.731 |194.7412 |6 |1288 | 411.745 |194.7422 |1 |1550 | 411.767 |194.7437 |4 |1604 | 411.789 |194.7452 |1 |1793 | 411.814 |194.7470 |1 |2026 | 411.838 |194.7487 |2 |846 | 411.844 |194.7491 |0 |3700 | 411.870 |194.7509 |0 |3147 | 411.890 |194.7523 |0 |3915 | 411.917 |194.7542 |0 |2391 | 411.939 |194.7557 |0 |4004 | 411.986 |194.7590 |0 |2584 | 412.005 |194.7604 |0 |1221 | 412.016 |194.7611 |0 |1315 | ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 412.029 |194.7620 |0 |1268 |194.7%→194.8% ---------|---------|--------|------|------------------------------ 412.042 |194.7629 |0 |1275 |194.8% 412.056 |194.7639 |0 |1602 | 412.078 |194.7655 |0 |1575 | 412.100 |194.7670 |0 |1805 | 412.124 |194.7687 |0 |1975 | 412.148 |194.7704 |0 |2427 | 412.170 |194.7719 |0 |4231 |
seems the calculated macc are not that exactly match the value on character stats but at least both results show the critical value that monster can evade the spells is before 194.8% and the result seems not related to other stats beside total macc, at least not that different between my Persistent and Isekai Persona when testing. well but anyway still useless data, no mages care about macc as everyone have 200%+macc (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Jun 23 2021, 08:54
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Adhinferno Bloodmoon
Group: Members
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Joined: 20-April 12

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@Basara Nekki, You da MVP (^o^)b Btw, I use Shortsword+Rapier (Both Slaughter) and found it quicker and easier to clear arena when I use the Shortsword in my Main Hand than when I use Rapier in my Main Hand ((IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)")
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Jun 23 2021, 14:05
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mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17

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QUOTE(Adhinferno Bloodmoon @ Jun 23 2021, 07:54)  Btw, I use Shortsword+Rapier (Both Slaughter) and found it quicker and easier to clear arena when I use the Shortsword in my Main Hand than when I use Rapier in my Main Hand ((IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)") That's because of your level. When you'll be higher with higher defenses (say, above 350-400) the situation will reverse.
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Jul 4 2021, 15:10
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what_is_name
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 986
Joined: 5-May 19

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QUOTE(what_is_name @ Jun 5 2021, 19:21)  useless test: ... test samples before 194.7% are small so the chance have no specific meanings, they just means: can be evaded and the samples after 194.7% are large enough that I think monsters can no longer evade you spells if you have over 194.8% macc. strange number. wiki says 200%, before the test I thought it would be 195% because of my battle data when I first became mage maybe someone can test the physical evaded chance as well
since my DW stats happen to perfectly in the range, I test the physical evaded data too CODE pAcc |hit |evaded --------|--------|------- 194.7% |2606 |2 194.8% |10850 |0
not detial like the magical evaded test but seem enough to say that the 194.8% magic number that monster can no longer evaded you attack is the same in physical and magical. as the evaded chance in test result seems to "suddently" become 0, seems there is a stupid theory can explain it the effective evade chance resolution is 0.1%, if the effective evade chance lower than 0.1% then it become 0.
threoretically the evade chance for monsters is:
CODE effective_evade_chance = round(counting_evade_chance) counting_evade_chance = raw_evade_chance * player_counter_evade = Evasion_level * 0.5% * player_counter_evade player_counter_evade = max(200% - player_hit_chance, 0)
when the monster have max Evasion chaos forged it has 10% raw_evade_chance
if the hv system use the half rounding method, then to lower than 0.1% effective_evade_chance, the counting_evade_chance need to lower than 0.05%, equals to need 195%+ player_hit_chance
using the 194.7%~194.8% player_hit_chance in test result, the counting_evade_chance is 0.052%~0.053%
so the test result may because: 1) the test samples are too small, they can still evade until you have 195% acc 2) the rounding method used by hv system round 0.052x% to 0
since there is 0 evaded count in over 100k+ hit samples, I would assume the reason 2 is the truth
the counting stats above are incorrect, check stats by BlueWaterSplash here QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Jul 5 2021, 03:23)  I realized that you forgot about this monster stats formula: Evade = 1 - (1 - min( 10 , (AGI / 100) , (AGI - Level) / 75) / 100) * (1 - chaos_evasion_rank * 0.5%) Nearly all monsters have a natural evade of 10%, this combines with the 10% from chaos, to a total of exactly 19% evade. When the player has 194.7%~194.8% hit chance, this monster's evade is 19% * 0.052 = 0.988% ~ 1.007% so your test is basically correct. This means that when effective evade drops below exactly 1%, it suddenly becomes 0%. effective_evade_chance = round_down(counting_evade_chance)... This post has been edited by what_is_name: Jul 5 2021, 03:49
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Jul 4 2021, 20:20
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
Posts: 3,319
Joined: 15-March 11

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Rather than it being your reason 2) I think a more likely explanation is that the game rounds twice somewhere, as many other tiny aspects of this game have a similar phenomena. Anyway, I didn't realize that having 194.8% accuracy is enough to perfectly prevent evasion, thanks! So it's not 200% after all. This also means that if your goal is to get just enough accuracy as needed and not waste credits on upgrades, then it will be "harder" to prevent yourself to rise above 200% accuracy (now 194.8% accuracy). My level 397 persistent 1H character already has 194.1% accuracy and I guess will probably reach over-accuracy soon. I have wondered for a long time how the resist-lowering math of the shock shield works. Is it plainly subtractive, or instead working like anti-evade and anti-resist? Maybe you know?
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Jul 4 2021, 21:23
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
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I realized that you forgot about this monster stats formula: Evade = 1 - (1 - min( 10 , (AGI / 100) , (AGI - Level) / 75) / 100) * (1 - chaos_evasion_rank * 0.5%) Nearly all monsters have a natural evade of 10%, this combines with the 10% from chaos, to a total of exactly 19% evade. When the player has 194.7%~194.8% hit chance, this monster's evade is 19% * 0.052 = 0.988% ~ 1.007% so your test is basically correct. This means that when effective evade drops below exactly 1%, it suddenly becomes 0%. effective_evade_chance = round_down(counting_evade_chance)Note that in reality you experienced effective evade about 0.1% and not 1% around here. This is because most monsters have a natural evade a little below 10% ignoring chaos, because most monsters don't quite have enough AGI. scaled_stats = int(0.01 * base_stat * monster_level + (monster_level ^ 1.076675) * 0.3325) AGI is level scaled AGI. In order to reach (AGI / 100) = 10 the monster needs 1000 AGI. At level 500 this means 146.45 base AGI, which every PL 2250 monster will have. Some monsters at a lower level and PL may not reach 10% natural evade. In order to also reach (AGI - Level) / 75 = 10 is more complicated but at level 500 requires 1250 AGI, or 196.45 base AGI, which a few monster species cannot reach even at PL 2250. But they can still get close to 10% natural evade. As your player level increases to 500, and as the overall monster population rises in average PL, you will likely experience many more evades around 194.7% but it should still drop to no evades at 194.8%, nice find.
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Jul 5 2021, 03:07
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Adhinferno Bloodmoon
Group: Members
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QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Jun 23 2021, 20:05)  That's because of your level. When you'll be higher with higher defenses (say, above 350-400) the situation will reverse.
Not just reverse, now I do complete overhaul and change my style from DW to 1H (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Now I am using Rapier+Kite Shield (don't have any decent Buckler)..... Still wearing Light Armor instead of Heavy Armor, though This post has been edited by Adhinferno Bloodmoon: Jul 5 2021, 03:08
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Jul 5 2021, 03:45
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what_is_name
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 986
Joined: 5-May 19

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Jul 5 2021, 03:23)  I realized that you forgot about this monster stats formula: Evade = 1 - (1 - min( 10 , (AGI / 100) , (AGI - Level) / 75) / 100) * (1 - chaos_evasion_rank * 0.5%) Nearly all monsters have a natural evade of 10%, this combines with the 10% from chaos, to a total of exactly 19% evade. When the player has 194.7%~194.8% hit chance, this monster's evade is 19% * 0.052 = 0.988% ~ 1.007% so your test is basically correct. This means that when effective evade drops below exactly 1%, it suddenly becomes 0%. effective_evade_chance = round_down(counting_evade_chance)... WoW nice catch, this perfactly explain it, and I wrong count the decimal point too (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Jul 5 2021, 02:20)  I have wondered for a long time how the resist-lowering math of the shock shield works. Is it plainly subtractive, or instead working like anti-evade and anti-resist? Maybe you know? No, I have no idea how it work too.
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Jul 5 2021, 12:28
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mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17

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QUOTE(Adhinferno Bloodmoon @ Jul 5 2021, 02:07)  Not just reverse, now I do complete overhaul and change my style from DW to 1H (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Now I am using Rapier+Kite Shield (don't have any decent Buckler)..... Still wearing Light Armor instead of Heavy Armor, though It's Ok, if you don't have Power pieces it's probably better to use Light then Heavy; especially now that you still are below L.250. At 250 you'll unlock the 1H-block ability, then going Heavy will probably be a better choice even if only some pieces will be Power. imho.
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Jul 28 2021, 00:36
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sssss2
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,958
Joined: 11-April 14

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Forge/Upgrade MaterialsWhile developing the script, I found something more concise about this. [ docs.google.com] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gpJ...g#gid=480170546The material list consists of 13 groups- 5x [6 Low-Grade Materials] - 7x [5 Low-Grade Materials] and [1 Mid-Grade Material] - 8x [4 Low-Grade Materials] and [2 Mid-Grade Materials] - 7x [3 Low-Grade Materials] and [3 Mid-Grade Materials] - 8x [2 Low-Grade Materials] and [4 Mid-Grade Materials] - 7x [1 Low-Grade Material] and [5 Mid-Grade Materials] - 13x [6 Mid-Grade Materials] - 7x [5 Mid-Grade Materials] and [1 High-Grade Material] - 8x [4 Mid-Grade Materials] and [2 High-Grade Materials] - 7x [3 Mid-Grade Materials] and [3 High-Grade Materials] - 8x [2 Mid-Grade Materials] and [4 High-Grade Materials] - 7x [1 Mid-Grade Materials] and [5 High-Grade Materials] - 58x [6 High-Grade Materials] The amount required varies based on the equipment's pxp, not the quality in the equipment's name.- Equipment with pxp 313 or less are from index 1 - Equipment with pxp between 313 and 335 are from index 16 - Equipment with pxp between 335 and 348 from index 31 - Equipment with pxp 348 or higher are from index 51 This post has been edited by sssss2: Jul 28 2021, 00:40
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Aug 28 2021, 23:26
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
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QUOTE(Nezu @ Peerless Shocking Rapier of Slaughter B5 O4)  I ended up reforging my rapier and going for B5 O4. I'm pretty sure Overpower is worth considerably more than Fatality, even with Overwhelming Strikes. QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Research Thread last year, condensed)  OverpowerIf average monster parry is 20% then Overpower 5 grants (1 - 0.2 * 0.8) / (1 - 0.2) = 5% more hits. In Research for 1H monsters were stunned 62% of the time, this changes the above calculation to (1 - 0.2 * 0.38 * 0.8) / (1 - 0.2 * 0.38) = 1.645% more hits. The player also gets Overwhelming Strikes in 1H style, which I'll estimate to provide 20% counter-parry on average without haste, and 60% counter-parry with haste. Stacked additively with Overpower 5 the above calculation becomes (1 - 0.2 * 0.38 * 0.6) / (1 - 0.2 * 0.38 * 0.8) = 1.618% without haste and (1 - 0.2 * 0.38 * 0.2) / (1 - 0.2 * 0.38 * 0.4) = 1.568% with haste. There are times when Overwhelming Strikes grants 100% counter-parry which is not uncommon with haste. In these instances overpower does nothing. Haste was used when performing Research for 1H which some might consider a flaw. The experimental result was that Overpower 5 increased the hit rate by 1.3075%. The added overcharge granted by overpower is worth extra, however it's roughly already accounted for. Because even if 1H misses an attack, it will usually perform a counter attack and keep overcharge at a constant level for that turn. For non-imperil rapier spread style only, added hits from overpower have the valuable effect of preventing previously stacked PA from wearing off. I estimate this effect is worth 0.68 * 0.68 * 0.66 = 0.3 hits, meaning overpower becomes 1.3x better with this viewpoint. Overpower = Fatality (1H non-imperil rapier spread style only)Let's suppose the average monster parry rate today is 22%, then Overpower 5 without haste improves hits by (1 - 0.22 * 0.38 * 0.6) / (1 - 0.22 * 0.38 * 0.8) = 1.792% and may improve turns by 1.792% * 1.3 = 2.330% which is equal to Fatality 5. Keep in mind the math is fuzzy and PA wearing off applies less in arenas with small mobs. For other 1H styles the numbers suggest overpower is somewhere between 0.5x to 1x as beneficial as fatality. Even assuming 25% average monster parry, overpower can't give more than (1 - 0.25 * 0.36 * 0.6) / (1 - 0.25 * 0.36 * 0.8) = 1.940% more hits. The percentage of time enemies are stunned affects overpower the most. When I wrote that, I assumed that haste usage would not affect how often enemies are stunned. That should theoretically be the case, but because of discretization issues I later discovered the following: QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Research Thread last year)  Once any enemy recovers from stun, it no longer matters whether you have haste or not in terms of the number of counter attacks you perform (except for increasing the stun duration from 4 to 6~7 turns, which is the biggest effect on loss of counters).
This is because ~95% of all enemies we encounter are chaosed enough to have over 25% attack speed bonus (more than half chaosed, so 10+ levels to attack speed). Combined with the 25% attack speed bonus of PFUDOR difficulty this means that whether we have haste or not, most monsters will attack 1H players twice every time they recover from Stun.
And if we approximate that 1H style deals 3 counter attacks and 2 stuns every turn, then this creates a perpetual loop. Because in many turns, 2 monsters will recover from stun, and those 2 monsters will attack 4 times, for an average of 3 counter attacks (75% chance) and once again 2 stuns (70%+ chance of stun with a counter attack). New data on how often enemies are stunned is badly needed, as sssss2 used haste for his test many years ago. Without haste, enemies ought to be stunned much less often, and overpower would drastically improve. QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Research Thread last year, revised)  ButcherRapier + 5 Power of Slaughter: 5 * 51 / (14400 - 5 * 51) = 1.803% Shortsword + 5 Power of Slaughter: 5 * 1.2 * 51 / (15000 - 6 * 51) = 2.082% Butcher is the only weapon potency that improves counter attacks, so calculated derating factors = 2.4 / (2.4 + 0.75 * counters) for Fatality and Overpower are: CODE stage spell usage difficulty counters/attack derating factor -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 mob arena haste pfudor 0.85 0.74 5 mob arena haste pfudor 0.95 0.72 4 mob arena none pfudor 1.17 0.67 5 mob arena none pfudor 1.30 0.65 item world haste pfudor 1.25 0.66 item world none pfudor 1.75 0.58 item world imperil pfudor 2.33 0.51 FatalityI'll copy Research for 1H and assume +60% crit damage without fatality, presumably from a savage piece or two. Fatality gets better at high level because crit chance increases. The peerless full slaughter warrior has 53.2% crit chance. With Heartseeker it becomes 57.88% crit chance to do +75% crit damage. The base multiplier of the main hit is 2.434 which becomes 2.49198 with Fatality 5, an improvement of 2.49198 / 2.434 - 1 = 2.382% (compare with 2.45373 / 2.4 - 1 = 2.239% in Research for 1H). Taking ~1 counter/attack, the derating factor is 0.70 so Fatality 5 increases overall damage by 2.382% * 0.70 = 1.667%. Butcher and Fatality have always been pretty close, so O5 B4 could be best. However arenas have bigger average mobs with the current game version, so Butcher is improved these days (a derating factor of 0.51~0.60 may be generally applicable now).
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Sep 27 2021, 02:56
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Greshnik
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Tried to compare B5F4 with B5O4 yesterday with my Protection set in 12 runs of 100 rounds PFUDOR IW... With 8,096/8,085 adb and DD1... Legendary Demonic Shortsword of Slaughter (B5F4) CODE 1st run 1,782 turns, 1 Riddlemaster 2nd run 1,765 turns, 2 Riddlemaster 3rd run 1,770 turns, 2 Riddlemasters 4th run 1,785 turns, 1 Riddlemaster 5th run 1,769 turns, 1 Riddlemaster 6th run 1,765 turns, 2 Riddlemasters avg ~1,772 turns
Legendary Shocking Shortsword of Slaughter (B5O4) CODE 1st run 1,728 turns, 1 Riddlemaster 2nd run 1,744 turns, 1 Riddlemaster 3rd run 1,778 turns 4th run 1,749 turns, 2 Riddlemasters 5th run 1,781 turns, 2 Riddlemasters 6th run 1,728 turns, 2 Riddlemasters avg ~1,751 turns
B5O4 have lower turns on average compared to B5F4, but only marginally at ~20 turns difference... This is the same with what Nezu said a few weeks ago... So I think gear lv basically have no difference in this case... This post has been edited by Greshnik: Sep 27 2021, 13:16
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Sep 28 2021, 00:09
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BlueWaterSplash
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If that result is accurate that is actually a big difference. That's about a 1% improvement in turns, and keep in mind that B5 is only a 2% improvement in adb as compared to having nothing.
I assume you infused the two weapons accordingly to match element, but it's still possible that one of those shortswords is better than the other. Also in general, fatality should be improving with higher level and peerless gear (but I would not expect it to improve enough to overcome the superior overpower result you demonstrated).
If overpower is truly as good as your demonstration, then O5 B4 is still looking good.
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Sep 28 2021, 02:26
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Greshnik
Group: Members
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Joined: 13-January 15

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Sep 28 2021, 05:09)  If that result is accurate that is actually a big difference. That's about a 1% improvement in turns, and keep in mind that B5 is only a 2% improvement in adb as compared to having nothing.
I assume you infused the two weapons accordingly to match element, but it's still possible that one of those shortswords is better than the other. Also in general, fatality should be improving with higher level and peerless gear (but I would not expect it to improve enough to overcome the superior overpower result you demonstrated).
If overpower is truly as good as your demonstration, then O5 B4 is still looking good.
Yep... Lightning infusion for Demonic Shortsword and Dark infusion for Shocking Shortsword, on Sunday (Holy day)... Plus featherweight on all eq., and voidseeker for weapon because at the time my acc still <200%... And I consider those two are close enough in stats to start the comparison, though I'm sure a peerless one will gives more accurate result...
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Dec 23 2021, 02:48
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gwwcnm
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Dec 23 2021, 21:36
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BlueWaterSplash
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QUOTE(sssss2 @ wants to buy isekai stuff for season 3)  Magnificent * Rapier Legendary * Rapier
Magnificent * Wakizashi Legendary * Wakizashi
Magnificent * Buckler of the Barrier Legendary * Buckler of the Barrier
Magnificent * Shade * of the Shadowdancer Legendary * Shade * of the Shadowdancer
Magnificent * Shade * of the Fleet Legendary * Shade * of the Fleet Please MM or PM to me. Looking at his request list, this is identical to what I used in isekai season 1. I already knew from way back then that some players had similar ideas to me. Isekai is no longer as competitive (just reach floor 50 to get pabs) so when I have time I want to discuss various things, as the isekai Tower provides a better tangible way for us to measure survivability and what can matter. For my part, I do not play and advance enough for true survivability to matter, but the Tower still helps me to try things and makes theorizing easier. For season 2, I had to use a Force shield for the first time ever (semi-regularly) because it was all I could drop: a high rolled mag force shield was just too much better than low rolled exquisite buckler of barrier. (I dropped a similar mag force shield at the start of season 3 and gave it away). So there are a number of old melee debates that should be revisited. Is force shield better than buckler of the barrier? How does 1H Light compare to 1H Heavy (which could be plate or power, and/or feathered) both on offense and defense? When is spirit shield worth it, or can I just go without it and spark a lot? Most players feel that they have obvious answers to these questions, but I don't think popular thought has ever been absolutely correct, in a perfectly strict sense. Popular thought may be correct for nearly all situations and builds, but the reality is that Player level affects a lot of these things as well as Difficulty level, and behavior of monsters. At certain odd/rarely/never encountered ranges of player level and difficulty level (this could include theoretical difficulties, or theoretical alterations to monster behavior that do not actually exist) there can be different results. And not everything is about 1H (fusrodah is rightfully disabled in isekai). Practically speaking, DW can easily clear the Tower floors I'd ever get to. Though once monsters get tough to the point where they can't all be blown away by Frenzy Blows (which was past Floor 100 in season 1, but probably much lower in season 2) then DW is in trouble. 2H Mace should be another competitor, especially if you target carefully. And I've never completely given up on the unorthodox idea of DW Club with spread stun targeting. (In theory monster behavior and population could theoretically be altered to screw 1H by making all monsters magical, drastically reducing counter attacks and stuns). Another interesting thing I think I noticed in isekai is that Stun probability upon a successful counter attack seems to increase with player level or stats. When I transition from DW to 1H every season and first reach 30% overwhelming and 75% counter attack, my stun rate is still pretty bad. I can beatdown schoolgirls without ever stunning them. This might be due to having pathetic block/parry stats but I don't feel that explains it, as I see the counters happening.
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