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HV Research Thread, Let's find out how stuff really works |
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Nov 19 2020, 23:51
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Basara Nekki
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,580
Joined: 13-September 12

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QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Nov 19 2020, 11:31)  I wish to add my opinion : for low level players (say < 200 to 250) Rapier cannot be very efficient, because they generally lack high-block shields. Without a significant block, and the rapier already low damage combined with the low level (medium to low item quality and low scale gain in everything from PABS to prof) ... probably DW + Leather with the highest damage/parry combo you can get (possibly with Slaughter Club to get the stun proc and Nimble off hand) is arguably easier and cheaper to get for them, and more efficient then 1H too. IMHO (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Ah yes, at this point you are correct. Dual wielding is the most suitable style for low level players. My opinion was more directed to those players who are making the transition to the 1H style, and also to those who, like me, have been 1H since the beginning of the journey. Specifically in my case, I always used 1H Heavy because I was lucky enough to always get good equipment, even though I was low level. Just to give you an idea, before reaching level 300, my set consisted of 6 Legendary (Rapier, Buckler and 4 Plate) and 1 Peerless Plate. I did not have the same luck with light or cloth.
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Nov 20 2020, 00:51
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mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Nov 19 2020, 18:30)  As a wild guess, perhaps the base cost of every equipment is 100 (nice number) and that axe was worth 2 credits in that state? Well, I'll have more data when I get around to whittling down my own equipment.
I doubt it (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Anyway, if you want to easily and quickly go to 1% condition, the quickest method is simply to equip items you don't care at all. Like the test weapon, with a build all of average plain cotton. Then you enter a PFUDOR IW or suchlike and get defeated. The condition on all your pieces will instantly go down of 10%, so even if it was 100% at the start, in 10 repeats at most you'll reach 1% on everything. The only drawback is that you collect data on 10 point of the curve, instead of all of them; but it shouldn't be so important I think. QUOTE(Basara Nekki @ Nov 19 2020, 22:51)  Specifically in my case, I always used 1H Heavy because I was lucky enough to always get good equipment, even though I was low level. Just to give you an idea, before reaching level 300, my set consisted of 6 Legendary (Rapier, Buckler and 4 Plate) and 1 Peerless Plate. I did not have the same luck with light or cloth.
Hmmm, I see, Advice for lucky players only, I missed that part of the Wiki (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) This post has been edited by mundomuñeca: Nov 20 2020, 00:53
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Nov 21 2020, 01:50
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Basara Nekki
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,580
Joined: 13-September 12

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QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Nov 19 2020, 19:51)  Hmmm, I see, Advice for lucky players only, I missed that part of the Wiki (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Oh, it's just a small detail. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And finally... Part 3: Comparison between different Dual Wielding sets.(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/B8pAIz9.jpg) Arena chosen: 150 rounds Equipment forge: Shortsword Slaughter, Rapier Balance and Slaughter Set (full forge); Balance, Protection, Warding and Fleet Sets (forge level 25) Hath Perk: Dæmon Duality V (no other "game perk" more) Supportive Spells in continuous use: Regen, Protection, Spirit Shield, Spark of Life, Heartseeker, Haste Deprecating Spell in continuous use: Imperil Shock Spike Shield Main Hand: Peerless Shocking Shortsword of Slaughter (Butcher Lv.5 Fatality Lv.4) Off Hand: Peerless Fiery Rapier of Balance (Fatality Lv.5 Overpower Lv.4) 100% Offhand Strike on hit Use of Featherweight Shard on both swords and all heavy armor. (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/mvBNVtM.jpg) Although the statistics of the sets are not exactly from the same time I performed the tests, the numbers have not changed significantly. The test dates, for the same set, are not continuous because in some cases I had to retake the test due to connection problems or inconsistent results (very different from the others). Links of my equipment can be found in my signature. Note: As I was always a player who from the beginning only played in the 1H style, the lack of practice with the DW style should be taken into account when observing the results obtained. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) Therefore, I will probably repeat some of these tests in the future. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) [ 1 ] Fleet Set(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/PQETRIi.jpg) [ 2 ] Balance Set(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/iDagEpM.jpg) [ 3 ] Protection Set(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/KIqcHqR.jpg) [ 4 ] Warding Set(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/edpokKx.jpg) [ 5 ] Slaughter Set(IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/2dsiUgg.jpg) Simple conclusions:Despite my lack of practice with the DW style, the results were within what I expected. The most interesting thing was to note that the DW Heavy style is viable, despite being a little unsafe. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) To measure this "unsafeness", I also decided to write down the number of times I needed to use Cure, Full-Cure and Health Potion. Looking at the numbers, we can see that the difference between the Fleet set and the others (Heavy) is very large. It's amazing how Evade (72,4 vs 29,3~31,4) and Resist (78,2 vs 24,6) make a difference in this regard. For someone like me, who has always used the 1H Heavy style, which due to its great defense does not need to heal, the DW Heavy style really is very insecure and needs more attention when playing. Comparing with the results that I presented in Part 1 ( https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...t&p=5799828 ), it was interesting to note that, even without practice in the style and having to heal several times (playing with more attention and less speed), the times obtained were still close, but the amount of turns was lower (the exception was with the Slaughter set). Balance Set 1H: 4784 turns; 28m49s DW: 4435 turns; 28m56s Protection Set 1H: 4880 turns; 29m21s DW: 4439 turns; 28m13s Warding Set 1H: 4901 turns; 29m58s DW: 4408 turns; 28m17s Slaughter Set 1H: 4017 turns; 24m05s DW: 4034 turns; 25m43s I really need to keep practicing, so that the results are more consistent. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) To be continued...
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Nov 21 2020, 02:19
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Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12

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You should repeat the dual-wield tests with the preferable main-hand (club of slaughter), since you have one available and you're only doing DWD tests (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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Nov 21 2020, 04:41
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mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17

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QUOTE(Basara Nekki @ Nov 21 2020, 00:50)  -- skip --
Balance Set 1H: 4784 turns; 28m49s DW: 4435 turns; 28m56s
Protection Set 1H: 4880 turns; 29m21s DW: 4439 turns; 28m13s
Warding Set 1H: 4901 turns; 29m58s DW: 4408 turns; 28m17s
Slaughter Set 1H: 4017 turns; 24m05s DW: 4034 turns; 25m43s
To be continued...
This is really interesting, thank you. And since the Warding set is the only one all Savage, it seems that the Savage prefix is a bit overrated ... or the Warding suffix is really poor and need to be Savage just to be close to the other non-savage sets (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) QUOTE(Basara Nekki @ Nov 21 2020, 03:03)  QUOTE(lestion @ Nov 21 2020, 01:19)  You should repeat the dual-wield tests with the preferable main-hand (club of slaughter), since you have one available and you're only doing DWD tests (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I will. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) The point is, when I started doing these tests, I still hadn't done the Club's IW, nor any upgrades. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) I plan to test using different weapon combinations. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) I think one very interesting combo (with Shades) could be Axe (main hand) + Shortsword ; it wouldn't work very well with Heavy quite probably thou', but have never seen it really discussed, only dismissed. Who knows ? Thanks for the hard work, Basara (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Nov 21 2020, 07:02
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Basara Nekki
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,580
Joined: 13-September 12

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QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Nov 20 2020, 23:41)  This is really interesting, thank you. And since the Warding set is the only one all Savage, it seems that the Savage prefix is a bit overrated ... or the Warding suffix is really poor and need to be Savage just to be close to the other non-savage sets (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Honestly, I'm starting to think it's both. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) Comparing the tests between Protection and Warding, you can see that even with lower numbers of the Warding set, the performance of the two sets is very similar. In this case I think that the Savage prefix helped (4 Legendary + 1 Peerless) to have a performance equivalent to 5 "non-Savage" Peerless. The issue is not the Warding suffix that is weak. In fact, the equipment has a high ADB, but many other attributes are bad. To be sure of the degree of importance of Savage prefix, I would have to have the entire Peerless set, but for now I only have one piece. But regardless, I think the Savage prefix is not worth the price they give it. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Nov 20 2020, 23:41)  I think one very interesting combo (with Shades) could be Axe (main hand) + Shortsword ; it wouldn't work very well with Heavy quite probably thou', but have never seen it really discussed, only dismissed. Who knows ?
Well, I would have to buy a Peerless Axe first, but at the moment I have no credits left. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I am saving to buy DD6. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Nov 20 2020, 23:41)  Thanks for the hard work, Basara (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Thanks!!! (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Nov 21 2020, 22:16
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Xythy
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 865
Joined: 18-August 14

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Has anyone done before a test of 2h + heavy? Probably a little bit unsafe, but maybe shielding or protection sets can pull it off (or a mix of both).
iirc someone was doing something like that but with mithril pieces, but I can't remember who. Can someone refresh my mind? the only thing I remember is that he was a well known veteran from the catgirl club.
I don't play much anymore but after reading all these posts I feel like returning to play more actively
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Nov 21 2020, 22:32
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Basara Nekki
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,580
Joined: 13-September 12

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QUOTE(Xythy @ Nov 21 2020, 17:16)  Has anyone done before a test of 2h + heavy? Probably a little bit unsafe, but maybe shielding or protection sets can pull it off (or a mix of both).
iirc someone was doing something like that but with mithril pieces, but I can't remember who. Can someone refresh my mind? the only thing I remember is that he was a well known veteran from the catgirl club.
I don't play much anymore but after reading all these posts I feel like returning to play more actively
It was sickentide who played with the 2H Heavy style. However, I don't remember him posting any more detailed results (just one or another print at the end of an Arena and/or Grindfest).
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Nov 22 2020, 01:36
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Xythy
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 865
Joined: 18-August 14

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QUOTE(Basara Nekki @ Nov 21 2020, 15:32)  It was sickentide who played with the 2H Heavy style. However, I don't remember him posting any more detailed results (just one or another print at the end of an Arena and/or Grindfest).
I forget things easily, thanks basara. I hope someday he share his results or resume his efforts in case he stopped his research for some reason. It would be interesting to know more about that particular style.
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Dec 6 2020, 23:13
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Basara Nekki
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 7,580
Joined: 13-September 12

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Another test like: "I did it because I was curious". (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Based on some previous messages posted by BlueWaterSplash, about the relationship between the condition of the equipment and its respective bazaar price, I decided to do a simple check of this. I spent the last few days using my Peerless Shortsword Slaughter, and I wrote down the condition values (numeric and percentage), and their respective price at the bazaar. As the amount of data is large I will not post the complete table; just a few excerpts later, to exemplify some facts. Graphically, this was the result obtained: (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/ktUtLIO.jpg) From what can be seen, this confirms what is already on the Wiki, about the degradation of the equipment being a fixed value for each monster killed. As a result, the price at the bazaar also decreases linearly. In fact, I realized that the price variation is even more visible than the value of the equipment degradation, because on some occasions the value of the condition has not changed, but the price has dropped slightly (after I played an arena with few rounds). The image below shows the condition in percentage, the condition in absolute values, and the price at the bazaar. (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/ETBzM4E.jpg) The initial condition is 800 and the starting price is 5,420 credits. One thing to be corrected on the Wiki is regarding the minimum condition of the equipment. There is written "0%", but the minimum is "1%", as shown in the following image. (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/HmTeDRW.jpg) I continued to play, and even suffered a deliberate defeat, but the condition does not become 0. The minimum price was 632 credits (image below). But I realized that this value did not change after a certain point, even with the continuous degradation of the equipment. For this reason I did not add these points to the chart. The lowest point was that of the first data above that minimum value. But using the equation given by the linear sequence, we can see that the minimum value of 632 credits is reached when the condition of the equipment is 80, that is, 10%. This minimum value, of course, should vary depending on the type and quality level of the equipment. (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/lY9FZDd.jpg) Another thing I realized was that when I was below 50%, the drop in attribute values was linear (as it says on the Wiki), but it was not continuous like the drop in price (as shown above). Basically, the attribute values fall 1% for every 0.5% reduction in the condition of the equipment. (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/Fjta2kj.jpg) Finally, one thing that I think is wrong in the Wiki is the formula for equipment repair cost. By the formula we have: Scraps Needed = 1 + rounddown((100 - condition%) / quality_mod Scraps Needed = 1 + rounddown((100 - 1) / 1.4 Scraps Needed = 1 + rounddown(70.71) Scraps Needed = 71 But I only needed 70 to repair the sword: (IMG:[ imgur.com] https://imgur.com/x96YYj9.jpg) Obviously I (or someone else) would need to check this with other equipment to check the formula's validity.
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Dec 7 2020, 00:50
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sickentide
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 1,355
Joined: 31-August 10

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QUOTE(Xythy @ Nov 22 2020, 01:36)  I forget things easily, thanks basara. I hope someday he share his results or resume his efforts in case he stopped his research for some reason. It would be interesting to know more about that particular style.
oh, i have plans to finalise my research, don't you worry. unfortunately, i am currently roadblocked by two compounding factors: IWs being a bitch on the pieces i need for my research and a lack of free time. the latter factor will be alleviated in may, when i will be done with final exams here's a brief summary of my findings so far: mithril helps you survive at lower leves, but as your player and upgrade levels increase, you can swap mithril for savage. this is the goal of my current efforts, which will be followed by a thorough examination of mithril vs. savage for arenas, longsword and estoc give similar performance. for IW and fest i recommend use of a mace for mace style, use of Imperil and OFC is a must. for the other two, very little, if anything, is gained over simply powering through in spirit stance for a balance vs. slaughter comparison, i have all the needed pieces, but IWs...
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Dec 7 2020, 03:28
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Xythy
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 865
Joined: 18-August 14

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QUOTE(sickentide @ Dec 6 2020, 17:50)  ...
Glad to see you're still working on it and thanks for the brief summary. I'll wait patiently until you finish all your tests and disclose all your findings in detail, I'll make sure to read it with great interest. Oh! And good luck IW'ing all those pieces.
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Jan 1 2021, 15:24
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sssss2
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,955
Joined: 11-April 14

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I got a new cookie and silver award, and run a grindfest, but 2020 cookie doesn't seem to give an exp bonus. Yesterday I had 7 cookies = 140% exp bonus and acquired 5.76b in a GF. So base_exp (including goldstar bonus) = 5.76b / 2.4 = 2.4bAs I got an additional cookie and award, I should have gotten 8b exp. expected_exp_bonus = 8*20% + 75% = 235%base_exp 2.4b * 3.35 = 8.04bBut I actually got only 7.56b exp. 7.56b / 2.4b = 3.15current_exp_bonus = 215%How did the number 215 come out? 7*20% + 75% = 215%The same case happened in 2018. 2017's cookie bonus was not applied at all through 2018. https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...t&p=5691912
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Jan 1 2021, 20:33
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Noni
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 13,134
Joined: 19-February 16

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QUOTE(sssss2 @ Jan 1 2021, 14:24)  I got a new cookie and silver award, and run a grindfest, but 2020 cookie doesn't seem to give an exp bonus. Yesterday I had 7 cookies = 140% exp bonus and acquired 5.76b in a GF. So base_exp (including goldstar bonus) = 5.76b / 2.4 = 2.4bAs I got an additional cookie and award, I should have gotten 8b exp. expected_exp_bonus = 8*20% + 75% = 235%base_exp 2.4b * 3.35 = 8.04bBut I actually got only 7.56b exp. 7.56b / 2.4b = 3.15current_exp_bonus = 215%How did the number 215 come out? 7*20% + 75% = 215%The same case happened in 2018. 2017's cookie bonus was not applied at all through 2018. https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...t&p=5691912Congratulations on your silver award
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Jan 1 2021, 20:37
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chjj30
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 10,914
Joined: 5-January 14

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That's why Parry istn't that useful for 1H-Mage. Specail Thanks to lololo16. Nezu edit: big image -> attachment This post has been edited by Nezu: Feb 14 2021, 01:05
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Feb 14 2021, 01:04
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Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12

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After a year I was able to get the last radiant piece I needed to run one of the last tests I'm interested in: how can an optimally equipped non-imperil elemental mage perform compared to holy? For some background on the non-imperil setup, I chose to use my PSWD with an Elementalist robe, because it's the closest you can get to 1.0 with Willow - but it only comes to 0.966, with 600 base prof. I plan to also test it with PSRD, to see if the 1.0 prof factor is more important than Willow's CR, but unlike my earlier propositions regarding the effect of CR on average damage, I think CR probably plays a bigger effect on turn times than I previously thought, so I'm expecting that test to perform worse. However, if it does turn out to be better, the optimal setup would be elementalist pants rather than robe. Some stats on the different equip setups: Non-imp elec: 44,764 arcane score, 32,939 magic score, 0.966 prof factor Non-imp holy: 43,462 arcane score, 31,984 magic score, 1.0 prof factor Imperil elec: Unknown - I salvaged some of the gear pieces used in it since then, as I planned to replace them anyway. Prof factor was around 0.85 and the arcane score was similar to the non-imp elec set, I believe. As you'll see from the results I choose not to use gems or draughts (except spirit draughts as non-imperil). I have my Monsterbation HP threshold set to 0.4 for the non-imperil setups - it's a hundred or so turns faster with it set to 0.3, but there are more deaths to unexpected spirit overconsumption from spirit shield eating multiple crits when at low health, then triggering spark in the same turn. I am currently safe(ish) to play holy on any day, with maybe occasional deaths on Fridays. Holy 1 is non-imperil on Sunday (holy day). Holy 2 is non-imperil on days that aren't Sunday or Friday. Elec 1 is non-imperil on Saturday (elec day). Elec 2 is my standard imperil set on days that aren't Sunday or Friday, for performance comparison against a very average imperil run. All of these numbers are an average of 10 runs of PFUDOR grindfest: CODE ================================================= | | Holy 1 | Holy 2 | Elec 1 | Elec 2 | ------------------------------------------------- | Turns | 5615.2 | 5798.3 | 6,345.7 | 5,987.4 | ------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------- | T3 | 1,001.2 | 1,031.5 | 1,151.8 | 989.8 | ------------------------------------------------- | T2 | 1,452.9 | 1,501.2 | 1,696.3 | 716.4 | ------------------------------------------------- | T1 | 2,074.3 | 2,136.3 | 2,461 | 93.8 | ------------------------------------------------- | Imp. | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3,408.6 | ------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------- | HP | 113.4 | 115.7 | 122.7 | 101.4 | ------------------------------------------------- | HE | 24.1 | 23.5 | 21.5 | 4 | ------------------------------------------------- | MP | 107 | 110.6 | 118.7 | 125.3 | ------------------------------------------------- | ME | 11.1 | 11.7 | 0 | 10.8 | ------------------------------------------------- | SD | 16.6 | 18.2 | 20.9 | 0 | ------------------------------------------------- | SP | 64.5 | 65.7 | 59.7 | 52.1 | ------------------------------------------------- | SE | 9.1 | 10.9 | 3.7 | 3.2 | ------------------------------------------------- | LE | 10.9 | 10.1 | 5.8 | 0 | ------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------- | Cure | 417.2 | 430.8 | 392.4 | 218.5 | ------------------------------------------------- | F.C. | 192.1 | 205 | 176.4 | 179.3 | ------------------------------------------------- | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------- | A.F. | 4.2 | 4.9 | 5 | 3.8 | ------------------------------------------------- | Regen | 12.6 | 13 | 13.7 | 9.6 | ------------------------------------------------- | A./G. | 13.1 | 14 | 12 | 8.2 | ------------------------------------------------- | Life | 26 | 27.7 | 22.3 | 21.8 | ------------------------------------------------- | Inf. | 51.2 | 53 | 45.6 | 31.7 | ================================================= (A.F. = arcane focus, A./G. = avatar/gods sccrolls, inf. = infusions) My non-imperil elec set is as close as I can get to perfect; it has very very high rolls, I have all relevant profs maxed, it's max forged (obviously), I am DD9, etc. There's not really much room for it to improve (pending results on the PSRD test). In comparison, my holy set is visible in my sig - there's a PHOH, yes, but you'll notice my cap at time of posting is still just a high-roll mystic, my pants are only 66% EDB, and I'm a pretty long way away from being able to run 4+1 holy (568 prof at the moment, need at least 590 with a peerless robe for the average damage score to break even with 3+2). There is a lot of room to improve it, and I anticipate a gain of about 200-300 turns depending on how much it improves survival. However you'll also note the consumable usage. I don't really like spending all those elixirs - especially the last elixirs, which I try to use if my spirit is low after sparking (very efficient to restore both HP and SP at the same time, right?), and otherwise as a backup when SP elixir is on cooldown. To that end non-imp elemental is more viable than I expected, though still miles behind holy. I'll try to update this when I run some other tests, to provide some idea of what turn counts mage can offer if you have enough equipment etc. This post has been edited by Nezu: Feb 14 2021, 09:22
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Mar 15 2021, 00:57
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
Posts: 3,307
Joined: 15-March 11

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Nov 19 2020, 07:30)  Thanks for showing me the crude axe. The most important thing to know is that it is condition 1/203 (1%) and sells for 102 credits.
As a wild guess, perhaps the base cost of every equipment is 100 (nice number) and that axe was worth 2 credits in that state? QUOTE(Basara Nekki @ Dec 6 2020, 11:13)  The initial condition [of peerless shocking shortsword of slaughter] is 800 and the starting price is 5,420 credits.
The minimum price was 632 credits...the minimum value of 632 credits is reached when the condition of the equipment is 80, that is, 10%. Sorry for the very late response, I am very busy in real life this year but fortunately HV 0.87 has delayed everyone's research. Unfortunately HV 0.87 changed the equipment cost formulas, but in a somewhat documented way, so we will need to be careful of it in the future. Thanks for the terrific data! I wonder if we could generalize the equipment sell cost to be the starting price x condition % + 90 credits? --------------------------------------- Back to the related topic of trying to learn how to calculate PXP0 from all an equipment's base stats. I have various formulas for this that seem close but generally have errors. (This topic is related because we're also interested in learning how to calculate bazaar cost from PXP0, or vice versa). Magnificent Shade Breastplate of the Fleet (352 PXP0, 4 PABs) Magnificent Shade Leggings of the Shadowdancer (351 PXP0, 4 PABs, suffix adds crit chance) Magnificent Savage Shade Boots of the Shadowdancer (335 PXP0, 3 PABs, suffix adds crit chance, prefix adds crit damage) I recently noticed the above 3 isekai equipments in auction. I didn't bother to write down all the stats, but note the relatively large differences in PXP0. It's always been known that having an extra PAB greatly increases PXP0. It's a whole extra stat (as opposed to just a higher or lower rolled stat) thus a very big addition into the PXP0 total. The interesting observation is that adding the crit chance stat or crit damage stat may not affect PXP0. So maybe those two stats don't go into the mystery PXP0 sum calculation (although they do still presumably benefit from the PXP0 quality bonus contribution to their scaled stat, in my view that can be considered an entirely separate calculation and phenomena). Alternatively, it might be possible that crit chance and crit damage do go into the mystery PXP0 sum calculation in a lesser weighted amount compared to a PAB, but there would have to be some reason for it, and I cannot find that reason. If we look at the equipment ranges base rolls column on the left, crit chance and crit damage have large base rolls. Note that this "base roll" number is different from what we traditionally consider the "base stats" that we see in equipment popups. If we consider the "base stats" then crit chance and crit damage have comparable values to "base stats" for PABs. The only way in which PABs are greater than crit chance and crit damage, are when they scale. Because many probably realize that PABs (and ADB/MDB) scale a lot with level, while most other stats like crit chance and crit damage only scale slightly with level. But PXP0 is a fixed value per equipment, so I do not think the game would use scaled stats to calculate PXP0.
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Mar 15 2021, 01:52
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Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12

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QUOTE(BlueWaterSplash @ Mar 14 2021, 22:57)  Thanks for the terrific data! I wonder if we could generalize the equipment sell cost to be the starting price x condition % + 90 credits?
The current formula is: CODE round( 400 + 1.2 * $base_value * $quality_factor * clamp($wear_factor, 0.25, 0.75) ) Clamp is a php function that establishes a minimum & maximum value, so it's capped between 25% and 75% essentially. Base value is just 1 for common equipment and 4 for rare equipment. With that, you should be able to calculate quality factors and relate that back to PXP. This post has been edited by Nezu: Mar 15 2021, 02:00
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Mar 15 2021, 04:30
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BlueWaterSplash
Group: Members
Posts: 3,307
Joined: 15-March 11

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Can we get the analogous previous version formula? I presume it would have been similar to:
round(90?? + $base_value * $quality_factor * clamp($wear_factor, 0.1, 1.0)
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