 |
 |
 |
 HV Research Thread, Let's find out how stuff really works |
|
Dec 23 2019, 21:47
|
Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12
|
The data. CODE | Rank | Trainer | Monsters | Counted | Avg/Count | Avg/Monster | Total pLvl |
|--------|----------------------|------------|-----------|-------------|---------------|--------------|
| 1 | Nero-Arc | 199 | 16597 | 1666 | 1646 | 327646 |
| 2 | serorin | 115 | 14139 | 1697 | 1663 | 191277 |
| 3 | morineko | 200 | 13402 | 1617 | 1575 | 315096 |
| 4 | sssss2 | 200 | 11356 | 1924 | 1552 | 310500 |
| 5 | gc00018 | 97 | 11166 | 1716 | 1665 | 161557 |
| 6 | Petal_Kiss | 200 | 9526 | 1716 | 1505 | 301128 |
| 7 | MidNightPass | 84 | 8930 | 1640 | 1606 | 134930 |
| 8 | FreeloaderV | 101 | 8830 | 1782 | 1603 | 161919 |
| 9 | NerfThis | 200 | 6381 | 1795 | 1485 | 297156 |
| 10 | Sushilicious | 134 | 5244 | 1503 | 1474 | 197573 |
| 11 | RoadShoe | 200 | 4767 | 1580 | 1470 | 294062 |
| 12 | Koaen | 7 | 3384 | 2214 | 2209 | 15469 |
| 13 | tempasdf | 14 | 3139 | 1728 | 1728 | 24196 |
| 14 | danixxx | 17 | 2754 | 1718 | 1658 | 28193 |
| 15 | qdjseh001 | 59 | 2327 | 1493 | 1480 | 87369 |
| 16 | Mantra64 | 19 | 2131 | 1729 | 1557 | 29588 |
| 17 | lestion | 18 | 1908 | 1744 | 1567 | 28218 |
| 18 | Godde?? | 39 | 1816 | 1518 | 1512 | 59004 |
| 19 | .@_@.@_@. | 24 | 1638 | 1789 | 1473 | 35366 |
| 20 | DJNoni | 34 | 1497 | 1503 | 1493 | 50795 |
| 21 | StonyCat | 3 | 1465 | 2174 | 2161 | 6483 |
| 22 | Honeycat | 5 | 1447 | 2140 | 1862 | 9311 |
| 23 | Hina Amano | 186 | 1271 | 1440 | 1433 | 266694 |
| 24 | ddwiki | 4 | 1240 | 1984 | 1872 | 7490 |
| 25 | moanim | 14 | 1128 | 1562 | 1562 | 21870 |
| 26 | cylinnia | 27 | 1088 | 1500 | 1500 | 40501 |
| 27 | Void Domain | 5 | 1087 | 2241 | 1735 | 8677 |
| 28 | in memory | 21 | 1056 | 1497 | 1495 | 31407 |
| 29 | another planet | 2 | 1043 | 2250 | 2250 | 4500 |
| 30 | KINOSHITAMIKOTO | 5 | 1004 | 1971 | 1731 | 8658 |
| 31 | warachiasion | 3 | 994 | 1944 | 1899 | 5697 |
| 32 | Ichy | 3 | 930 | 2011 | 1877 | 5632 |
| 33 | Kira.Yoshikage | 22 | 869 | 1501 | 1501 | 33031 |
| 34 | EsotericSatire | 3 | 786 | 2088 | 1787 | 5363 |
| 35 | foobarwtf | 2 | 782 | 2081 | 2016 | 4033 |
| 36 | sabregimp | 12 | 766 | 1532 | 1531 | 18378 |
| 37 | treesloth | 7 | 760 | 1608 | 1564 | 10948 |
| 38 | ashimoto | 4 | 760 | 1777 | 1680 | 6722 |
| 39 | ???? | 7 | 758 | 1787 | 1567 | 10973 |
| 40 | 15112006 | 11 | 739 | 1541 | 1531 | 16848 |
| 41 | poi999poi | 18 | 711 | 1486 | 1478 | 26609 |
| 42 | HTTP/308 | 5 | 706 | 2076 | 1648 | 8240 |
| 43 | arialinnoc | 7 | 694 | 1947 | 1568 | 10979 |
| 44 | sehokila | 6 | 585 | 1574 | 1573 | 9440 |
| 45 | Loli Extremist | 2 | 554 | 1889 | 1786 | 3573 |
| 46 | biborobi | 1 | 545 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 47 | eliudnir | 1 | 535 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 48 | Thira | 1 | 533 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 49 | TheTornPrince | 1 | 531 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 50 | Dreamophobia | 1 | 519 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 51 | kamio11 | 2 | 511 | 2066 | 1818 | 3636 |
| 52 | atomicpuppy | 1 | 508 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 53 | SakiRaFubuKi | 1 | 504 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 54 | tibus1979 | 1 | 497 | 2250 | 2250 | 2250 |
| 55 | fihero | 1 | 486 | 2116 | 2116 | 2116 |
| 56 | Nekobenki | 3 | 465 | 1741 | 1653 | 4961 |
| 57 | kzh125 | 1 | 460 | 1953 | 1953 | 1953 |
| 58 | Alicia Florence | 6 | 459 | 1724 | 1450 | 8700 |
| 59 | hayate hisakawa | 3 | 435 | 1661 | 1627 | 4881 |
| 60 | ?? ?? | 3 | 423 | 1646 | 1634 | 4903 |
| 61 | J.L. | 2 | 420 | 1761 | 1722 | 3444 |
| 62 | Atypical | 5 | 404 | 1554 | 1543 | 7718 |
| 63 | Amiya | 1 | 404 | 1983 | 1983 | 1983 |
| 64 | Hentai Woody | 1 | 403 | 2003 | 2003 | 2003 |
| 65 | LittleSnowBoy | 1 | 402 | 2033 | 2033 | 2033 |
| 66 | blackjac00 | 42 | 398 | 1452 | 1451 | 60981 |
| 67 | Sky Arc | 4 | 362 | 1566 | 1552 | 6210 |
| 68 | lord of dao | 2 | 355 | 1812 | 1693 | 3386 |
| 69 | pontaqqq | 4 | 336 | 1560 | 1560 | 6240 |
| 70 | Ass Spanker | 4 | 324 | 1862 | 1462 | 5850 |
| 71 | The_Ellimist | 1 | 324 | 1869 | 1869 | 1869 |
| 72 | unitready | 1 | 315 | 1869 | 1869 | 1869 |
| 73 | ariosty | 3 | 304 | 1590 | 1590 | 4770 |
| 74 | Anemone | 1 | 301 | 1839 | 1839 | 1839 |
| 75 | ctaglack | 8 | 283 | 1600 | 1455 | 11640 |
| 76 | dkdk554 | 1 | 276 | 1839 | 1839 | 1839 |
| 77 | Maximum_Joe | 1 | 270 | 1797 | 1797 | 1797 |
| 78 | Lostwizard | 6 | 265 | 1503 | 1503 | 9018 |
| 79 | Holy Bunny | 2 | 249 | 1617 | 1616 | 3233 |
| 80 | mfs5vnut32 | 6 | 242 | 1500 | 1500 | 9000 |
| 81 | Null2Null | 2 | 231 | 1590 | 1590 | 3180 |
| 82 | e-Stark | 1 | 224 | 1728 | 1728 | 1728 |
| 83 | jantch | 5 | 221 | 1499 | 1497 | 7488 |
| 84 | Bane13 | 1 | 220 | 1716 | 1716 | 1716 |
| 85 | jackalo | 3 | 218 | 1554 | 1525 | 4575 |
| 86 | Asariborn | 2 | 211 | 1681 | 1566 | 3133 |
| 87 | sky15jam | 1 | 198 | 1703 | 1703 | 1703 |
| 88 | ????? | 2 | 187 | 1575 | 1560 | 3120 |
| 89 | ace_amuro | 1 | 187 | 1698 | 1698 | 1698 |
| 90 | Ckyc | 1 | 185 | 1712 | 1712 | 1712 |
| 91 | Shimaidon | 3 | 183 | 1538 | 1525 | 4577 |
| 92 | megaplayboy | 2 | 173 | 1546 | 1522 | 3045 |
| 93 | Sapo84 | 2 | 173 | 1616 | 1509 | 3019 |
| 94 | shinji-rei | 3 | 170 | 1627 | 1512 | 4538 |
| 95 | needaname | 2 | 168 | 1592 | 1571 | 3142 |
| 96 | Drksrpnt | 1 | 167 | 1638 | 1638 | 1638 |
| 97 | gamagaeru | 1 | 152 | 1650 | 1650 | 1650 |
| 98 | december08 | 1 | 149 | 1608 | 1608 | 1608 |
| 99 | damemo | 1 | 149 | 1608 | 1608 | 1608 |
| 100 | Lin Setsu A | 2 | 144 | 1560 | 1560 | 3120 |
| 101 | TurendoT | 4 | 140 | 1570 | 1470 | 5883 |
| 102 | piyin | 3 | 135 | 1515 | 1514 | 4543 |
| 103 | The Original Zeo | 3 | 132 | 1505 | 1505 | 4515 |
| 104 | goro50neco | 5 | 126 | 1499 | 1460 | 7304 |
| 105 | FAhentai | 4 | 125 | 1535 | 1463 | 5853 |
| 106 | minson | 1 | 125 | 1585 | 1585 | 1585 |
| 107 | ymy | 1 | 122 | 1604 | 1604 | 1604 |
| 108 | believego | 1 | 114 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 109 | skywaterboy | 1 | 114 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 110 | hellweekdays | 1 | 111 | 1600 | 1600 | 1600 |
| 111 | kaien123456 | 1 | 109 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 112 | safmy | 3 | 107 | 1537 | 1482 | 4447 |
| 113 | SoraNoAki | 1 | 106 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 114 | K.A. | 1 | 104 | 1583 | 1583 | 1583 |
| 115 | tazmanian devil | 1 | 96 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 116 | Akitsuki Fuuka | 1 | 94 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 117 | Forty two | 1 | 91 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 118 | labiskvi | 1 | 91 | 1590 | 1590 | 1590 |
| 119 | Darwin4078 | 2 | 90 | 1515 | 1515 | 3030 |
| 120 | xyzjarod | 1 | 86 | 1565 | 1565 | 1565 |
| 121 | nta-008 | 2 | 85 | 1514 | 1493 | 2987 |
| 122 | Logii | 2 | 84 | 1525 | 1487 | 2975 |
| 123 | chronokorea | 1 | 83 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 124 | kii9999 | 1 | 77 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 125 | Ea-Moon | 1 | 74 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 126 | ankwchi | 1 | 71 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 127 | Kpop of Orz | 1 | 70 | 1530 | 1530 | 1530 |
| 128 | Charlotte1 | 1 | 69 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 129 | telice | 1 | 68 | 1535 | 1535 | 1535 |
| 130 | chazer | 1 | 63 | 1530 | 1530 | 1530 |
| 131 | YellowHui2 | 2 | 61 | 1507 | 1505 | 3011 |
| 132 | tsukasagetsu | 1 | 61 | 1560 | 1560 | 1560 |
| 133 | Passerby4 | 1 | 58 | 1523 | 1523 | 1523 |
| 134 | Epion | 1 | 56 | 1505 | 1505 | 1505 |
| 135 | issary | 1 | 51 | 1202 | 1202 | 1202 |
| 136 | southrim | 1 | 50 | 1510 | 1510 | 1510 |
| 137 | kira0002 | 1 | 49 | 1535 | 1535 | 1535 |
| 138 | izer | 1 | 43 | 1469 | 1469 | 1469 |
| 139 | sneqt | 15 | 39 | 1379 | 1372 | 20589 |
| 140 | foxian | 1 | 36 | 1465 | 1465 | 1465 |
| 141 | s976113 | 4 | 35 | 1464 | 1389 | 5559 |
| 142 | maxsnowman | 27 | 33 | 1345 | 1339 | 36155 |
| 143 | ruesny | 1 | 25 | 1460 | 1460 | 1460 |
| 144 | SidZBear | 1 | 15 | 1455 | 1455 | 1455 |
| 145 | utsuge | 1 | 14 | 1455 | 1455 | 1455 |
| 146 | Doracra | 3 | 12 | 1434 | 1371 | 4113 |
| 147 | Doomdragon2 | 1 | 12 | 1455 | 1455 | 1455 |
| 148 | alfonx | 1 | 12 | 1455 | 1455 | 1455 |
| 149 | wodhuhh | 1 | 11 | 1455 | 1455 | 1455 |
| 150 | The Nameless Monster | 1 | 10 | 1413 | 1413 | 1413 |
| 151 | FullestDay | 1 | 10 | 1465 | 1465 | 1465 |
| 152 | Rikis | 1 | 9 | 1408 | 1408 | 1408 |
| 153 | Sonic | 1 | 7 | 1403 | 1403 | 1403 |
| 154 | TygerTyger | 1 | 6 | 1431 | 1431 | 1431 |
| 155 | Hybridie | 1 | 3 | 1431 | 1431 | 1431 |
| 156 | dorcus07 | 1 | 3 | 1431 | 1431 | 1431 |
| 157 | KamuiSeph | 1 | 2 | 1335 | 1335 | 1335 |
| 158 | kujinsi | 1 | 2 | 1395 | 1395 | 1395 |
| 159 | Selcouth | 1 | 2 | 1327 | 1327 | 1327 |
| 160 | imnotgay | 1 | 2 | 1353 | 1353 | 1353 |
| 161 | oblivion1989 | 1 | 2 | 1426 | 1426 | 1426 | |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
Dec 24 2019, 07:05
|
Fudo Masamune
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 1,636
Joined: 2-February 10
|
wait, you could meet PL 1202 at lvl 500? that's like on the margin of error from PL vs player lvl calculation. and it pop out more frequently than PL 1400? are there some huge difference on monster type pool that such low PL monsters got a chance to shows up more than other? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 24 2019, 19:03
|
Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12
|
QUOTE(Fudo Masamune @ Dec 24 2019, 05:05)  wait, you could meet PL 1202 at lvl 500? that's like on the margin of error from PL vs player lvl calculation. and it pop out more frequently than PL 1400? are there some huge difference on monster type pool that such low PL monsters got a chance to shows up more than other? That's most likely an outdated scan. This info is not 100% accurate - it relies on the monster database being up-to-date. This is beyond my ability to control without scanning every single monster for 20,000 rounds, which would be prohibitively long and tedious. The most interesting data is the very high-level player averages, which could possibly inform a ML upgrade strategy (though it'd be for appearance rate, not so much economically for gift rate vs investment), and for curiosity's sake, where we each place in the ranking for number of monsters & appearances or how many players even have a high-level monster in the database. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 30 2019, 21:31
|
sssss2
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,955
Joined: 11-April 14
|
Monster Gift: Expected Income1) The ratio of normal materials-rares-bindings is the same regardless of PL. - Normal materials: 85%; Cloth 1: Leather 1: Metals 2: Wood 1 - Rares: 1% - Bindings: 14% 2) The ratio of low-mid-high grade materials depends on PL. - PL 25-499(?): Low-Grade, Mid-Grade materials - PL 500-749(?): Low-Grade, Mid-Grade, High-Grade materials - PL 750-1499(?): Mid-Grade, High-Grade materials - PL 1500-: High-Grade materials only I calculated the expected income of PL 1500+ monsters: It bases on the current prices. CODE
var prices = {
"Low-Grade Cloth": 50,
"Mid-Grade Cloth": 300,
"High-Grade Cloth": 12000,
"Low-Grade Leather": 50,
"Mid-Grade Leather": 75,
"High-Grade Leather": 100,
"Low-Grade Metals": 50,
"Mid-Grade Metals": 150,
"High-Grade Metals": 400,
"Low-Grade Wood": 50,
"Mid-Grade Wood": 300,
"High-Grade Wood": 4000,
"Crystallized Phazon": 190000,
"Shade Fragment": 3000,
"Repurposed Actuator": 55000,
"Defense Matrix Modulator": 3000,
"Binding of Slaughter": 90000,
"Binding of Balance": 1000,
"Binding of Isaac": 3000,
"Binding of Destruction": 55000,
"Binding of Focus": 500,
"Binding of Friendship": 500,
"Binding of Protection": 30000,
"Binding of Warding": 1000,
"Binding of the Fleet": 10000,
"Binding of the Barrier": 1000,
"Binding of the Nimble": 1000,
"Binding of Negation": 500,
"Binding of the Ox": 10000,
"Binding of the Raccoon": 10000,
"Binding of the Cheetah": 30000,
"Binding of the Turtle": 3000,
"Binding of the Fox": 15000,
"Binding of the Owl": 15000,
"Binding of Surtr": 500,
"Binding of Niflheim": 500,
"Binding of Mjolnir": 500,
"Binding of Freyr": 500,
"Binding of Heimdall": 500,
"Binding of Fenrir": 500,
"Binding of the Elementalist": 500,
"Binding of the Heaven-sent": 500,
"Binding of the Demon-fiend": 500,
"Binding of the Curse-weaver": 500,
"Binding of the Earth-walker": 500,
"Binding of Dampening": 1000,
"Binding of Stoneskin": 500,
"Binding of Deflection": 500,
"Binding of the Fire-eater": 500,
"Binding of the Frost-born": 500,
"Binding of the Thunder-child": 500,
"Binding of the Wind-waker": 500,
"Binding of the Thrice-blessed": 500,
"Binding of the Spirit-ward": 500,
};
function calc(low,mid,high) {
return [
{ratio:0.85*low,mats:["Low-Grade Cloth","Low-Grade Leather","Low-Grade Metals","Low-Grade Metals","Low-Grade Wood"]},
{ratio:0.85*mid,mats:["Mid-Grade Cloth","Mid-Grade Leather","Mid-Grade Metals","Mid-Grade Metals","Mid-Grade Wood"]},
{ratio:0.85*high,mats:["High-Grade Cloth","High-Grade Leather","High-Grade Metals","High-Grade Metals","High-Grade Wood"]},
{ratio:0.01,mats:["Crystallized Phazon","Shade Fragment","Repurposed Actuator","Defense Matrix Modulator"]},
{ratio:0.14,mats:Object.keys(prices).filter(e=>e.startsWith("Binding of"))}
].reduce(function(p,c){
return Math.round( p + c.ratio * c.mats.reduce((p,c)=>p+prices[c],0) / c.mats.length );
},0);
}
var expected = {};
expected["low50-mid50"] = calc(0.5, 0.5, 0);
expected["mid50-high50"] = calc(0, 0.5, 0.5);
expected["high100"] = calc(0, 0, 1);
console.log(expected);
- low 50% mid 50%: 1789 - mid 50% high 50%: 3205 - high 100%: 4558Umm, 4558 credits per gift... How long will it take to recover the cost? My Monster Lab gift log for 100 daysCODE
==============================================
pl | class | gift | count | avg
==============================================
2250 | | 9,092 | 14 | 649
----------------------------------------------
2250 | Celestial | 1,875 | 3 | 625
2250 | Daimon | 672 | 1 | 672
2250 | Dragonkin | 2,024 | 3 | 675
2250 | Elemental | 618 | 1 | 618
2250 | Giant | 1,990 | 3 | 663
2250 | Mechanoid | 1,913 | 3 | 638
==============================================
1500 | | 31,182 | 186 | 168
----------------------------------------------
1500 | Arthropod | 2,881 | 17 | 169
1500 | Avion | 2,894 | 17 | 170
1500 | Beast | 2,842 | 17 | 167
1500 | Celestial | 2,116 | 14 | 151
1500 | Dragonkin | 2,309 | 14 | 165
1500 | Elemental | 2,695 | 16 | 168
1500 | Giant | 2,177 | 14 | 156
1500 | Humanoid | 2,062 | 12 | 172
1500 | Mechanoid | 2,310 | 14 | 165
1500 | Reptilian | 2,985 | 17 | 176
1500 | Sprite | 2,930 | 17 | 172
1500 | Undead | 2,981 | 17 | 175
==============================================
PL 2250: gift factor 260% cost: 5200 packs * 20k/pack = 104m income per day: 6.49 * 4558c = 29581c Break-Even Day: 104m / 29581 = 3515 days; 9 years 8 months PL 1500: gift factor 230% cost: 500 packs * 20k/pack = 10m income per day: 1.68 * 4558c = 7657c Break-Even Day: 10m / 7657 = 1306 days; 3 years 7 months This post has been edited by sssss2: Dec 30 2019, 21:35
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2019, 16:31
|
mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17
|
QUOTE(sssss2 @ Dec 30 2019, 21:31)
Monster Gift: Expected Income
~ skip ~
[code]
PL 2250: gift factor 260%
cost: 5200 packs * 20k/pack = 104m
income per day: 6.49 * 4558c = 29581c
Break-Even Day: 104m / 29581 = 3515 days; 9 years 8 months
PL 1500: gift factor 230%
cost: 500 packs * 20k/pack = 10m
income per day: 1.68 * 4558c = 7657c
Break-Even Day: 10m / 7657 = 1306 days; 3 years 7 months
It seems you just put in the Xtals' cost to bring them to level, not the cost of feeding them ... that would make the break-even point even farther in the future (if your other estimates are correct). And before you tell me that you don't have to buy feed 'cause you drop enough, that just means you use it instead of selling it. Any ledger-maintaining clerk could tell you that a possible income becoming not possible because of the need to feed your monsters, is just the same as a direct cost; you must put it in too. Sorry (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Btw, most players here (and not just low levels) would be more interested in an estimate of break-even with only PL < 400 monsters (or even all PL < 250 !). Can you provide that too, please (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2019, 17:13
|
Noni
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 13,142
Joined: 19-February 16
|
1789c per gift, 1 gift per 3 days, that's
596.3c per day, or 212k per year. Cost to PL25 is, well, very low. So -> excellent payback time
PL400? Just for showing off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 1 2020, 01:56
|
Nezu
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 3,931
Joined: 29-January 12
|
QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Dec 31 2019, 14:31) Btw, most players here (and not just low levels) would be more interested in an estimate of break-even with only PL < 400 monsters (or even all PL < 250 !). Can you provide that too, please (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) He can't, because his entire monster lab is 1500+ now... (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) But that aside, my experience is that anything below 1300 has the same gift rate, and 500+ only brings it to mid-grade guaranteed which isn't really a huge bump in income. Actually, that's not even strictly true - I see slightly higher wins on my minimum level monsters than anything in the 500-ish range because 1) very new players come in fairly frequently for a few REs and never get stuck in, I guess, 2) the mid-level monster range is only around for a very narrow player level range on specific difficulties, and 3) players in that level range very, very quickly outlevel it. I keep everything at 25 til it's time to start pouring crystals into it til it's over 1500, personally. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 1 2020, 10:06
|
Noni
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 13,142
Joined: 19-February 16
|
QUOTE(lestion @ Jan 1 2020, 00:56) He can't, because his entire monster lab is 1500+ now... (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) But that aside, my experience is that anything below 1300 has the same gift rate, and 500+ only brings it to mid-grade guaranteed which isn't really a huge bump in income. Actually, that's not even strictly true - I see slightly higher wins on my minimum level monsters than anything in the 500-ish range because 1) very new players come in fairly frequently for a few REs and never get stuck in, I guess, 2) the mid-level monster range is only around for a very narrow player level range on specific difficulties, and 3) players in that level range very, very quickly outlevel it. I keep everything at 25 til it's time to start pouring crystals into it til it's over 1500, personally. Well, in my experience, lv25 get a very low absolute number of wins. Most gifts come from 3 days automated gift. Mid-level monsters will still do that. You lose very little. But you do gain something. At lv300, you can already upgrade the Scavenger to 6 or so, which increases the chance of double gift once every 3 days. Conclusion remains: all lv25 has the best ROI |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2020, 18:25
|
sssss2
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,955
Joined: 11-April 14
|
QUOTE(mundomuñeca @ Dec 31 2019, 23:31) It seems you just put in the Xtals' cost to bring them to level, not the cost of feeding them ... that would make the break-even point even farther in the future (if your other estimates are correct). And before you tell me that you don't have to buy feed 'cause you drop enough, that just means you use it instead of selling it. Any ledger-maintaining clerk could tell you that a possible income becoming not possible because of the need to feed your monsters, is just the same as a direct cost; you must put it in too. Sorry (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) High PL monsters, about PL 750 or above, are fed crystals for level-ups, not for morale. It is much cheaper to use Happy Pills because they need more than 10,000 crystals at a time. This brief explanation is insufficient and I can't make you understand this due to my poor English, but you'll understand it if you have a higher PL monster. Sorry. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2020, 20:01
|
mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17
|
QUOTE(sssss2 @ Jan 2 2020, 18:25)
High PL monsters, about PL 750 or above, are fed crystals for level-ups, not for morale.
It is much cheaper to use Happy Pills because they need more than 10,000 crystals at a time.
This brief explanation is insufficient and I can't make you understand this due to my poor English, but you'll understand it if you have a higher PL monster.
Sorry.
I wasn't clear enough, it seems (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif) When I say "feeding them" I meant the cost in consumed Chow, or Edibles or Cuisine, not Xtals; after all, it is the "Hunger bar" that get fed food (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Keeping their Morale bar in the green, now, I'd call that "Maintenance" or "Fueling" or perhaps "Recharging" (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) But whether you use Pills or Xtals for that, it's immaterial (except for the increasing PL) : in terms of cost, you still have to account for what you use. Otherwise your Break-Even estimates are simply under-estimated (and you don't even know by how much). I had made some estimates myself back then when I started my Lab, but I was just interested in ballpark estimates of what PL to reach before switching from Xtals to Pills. The rough result was that using Xtals was more convenient up to PL 300 more or less, after that Pills (and increasingly so the higher the PL, so you see, I know what you're saying (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But here we are talking of matching costs with (avg.estimated) recoveries, to see where the BE point is : therefore you have to put ALL the costs you have sustained to keep the monster alive and kicking during the time from its creation until the Break.Even has been reached, not just the cost of reaching the intended PL, otherwise your calculation is simply off. As for me, I feed Xtals to all until they reach above PL200 (to get the second strike) but below 250 (to avoid having to feed them Edibles), then start them on Pills. I don't claim for this strategy to be optimal, it's just my personal strategy and I like it (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2020, 12:28
|
sssss2
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,955
Joined: 11-April 14
|
Assimilator and Base Proficiency
I did some simulations about Assimilator and proficiency.
0) EXP settings
- "Dawn of a New Day" bonus everyday
- PFUDOR difficulty
- stamina < 80
- Goldstar (+100%) and 7 cookies (+140%)
- Adept Learner 300 and Thinking Cap 4 (+300% +100%)
- Forum posting bonus (+100%)
1) start a mage at level 400
- If the assimilator level is 15 or higher, it is easy to achieve 1.1 base factor.
- However, it decreases slowly after level 450.
- To keep 1.1 factor, the assimilator level needs to be above 20.
[attachmentid=137759]
2) start a mage at level 450
- Give up or pour your credits into training Assimilator.
[attachmentid=137760]
This post has been edited by sssss2: Jan 17 2020, 12:29
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 25 2020, 23:58
|
jantch
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 3,699
Joined: 13-May 12
|
QUOTE(decondelite @ Jan 25 2020, 15:47)
I've got the feeling that Cold Coupon is Tier 7, and Platinum Coupon is Tier 8.
Does anyone confirm this, have more info or more coupons to shrine?
QUOTE(Tenboro @ Jul 26 2015, 03:09)
Equipment/Drops
- Inserted a new level 7 trophy tier between the tier 6 and 7 trophies. Old tier 7 is now tier 8, old tier 8 is now tier 9.
- Difficulty now more significantly affects the tier bonus at higher arenas. The 101+ arenas get +1 tier at Nightmare and above, and the three highest arenas get an additional +1 tier (+2 total) at IWBTH and above.
- Toplist Tickets were renamed to Coupons to avoid confusion with the Golden Lottery Ticket. Gold Coupons and below were bumped up one tier. (So, Gold is now the newly added Tier 7.)
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 00:48
|
Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 01:02
|
KitsuneAbby
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 7,571
Joined: 12-July 14
|
QUOTE(Scremaz @ Jan 25 2020, 22:48) That tier info isn't located where one would expect to find it (in the trophies page), jeez. Fixing that. |
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 12:44
|
Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07
|
QUOTE(decondelite @ Jan 26 2020, 00:02)
That tier info isn't located where one would expect to find it (in the trophies page), jeez.
Fixing that.
ah, you copy/pasted the whole table, uh? i thought you were adding rows to the existing one to integrate infos, but probably it works too |
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 13:15
|
KitsuneAbby
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 7,571
Joined: 12-July 14
|
Fitting the coupons inside the already existing trophy table would have been quite crude and ugly, and we wouldn't be able to see the evolution of their tiers easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 16:17
|
mundomuñeca
Group: Members
Posts: 4,221
Joined: 14-July 17
|
QUOTE(decondelite @ Jan 26 2020, 01:02) QUOTE(Scremaz @ Jan 26 2020, 00:48) That tier info isn't located where one would expect to find it (in the trophies page), jeez. Fixing that. I personally think that the Toplists page is the right place for that info : they are rewards for toplist placement afterall. And there is also a link from there to the Trophies page. It would have been better to just add a phrase about them with a backlink to Toplists#Coupons, imo, instead of copy-pasting. That way, should ever the table need to be edit and/or changed in any way, there would be only one instance of it; no risk of changing one and leave the other as it is. Or even worse, different edits possibly by different people, ending up with to differnet version of the same thing (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 17:19
|
KitsuneAbby
Group: Catgirl Camarilla
Posts: 7,571
Joined: 12-July 14
|
Finished conducting research regarding the exact calculation of Bleeding Wound, with the help of lestion. It was needed, since the formulae and the way how things were written in the wiki were quite unclear and incomplete. Now the proc has absolutely no secret for us anymore. Here are my conclusions: Bleeding wound is unaffected by physical mitigation. Bleeding wound's base power is proportional to the power of the attack that dealt it. => The base power is proportional to the character's Attack Base Damage, not the weapon's ADB. => Equipment forging or Butcher will increase Bleeding Wound accordingly => Vital Strikes inflicts a dot with a very high base power, since the attack itself is very powerful => A critical hit won't affect the base power of Bleeding Wound The dot is always equal to "base power*number of stacks" => Any new proc is susceptible to affect the base power => Proccing with a shortsword's regular attack will overwrite Vital Strike's base power and effectively lower the dot's damage output A Longsword's proc is 50% stronger than a shortsword's. Formula to calculate the base power of bleeding wound: Character's Attack Base Damage * Equipment DOT % * 0,44 * damage multipliers You can find all my data in there: [ www.mediafire.com] https://www.mediafire.com/file/3tu19zxbq1ff..._test.xlsx/fileI'll mention that the only thing that changed between the setups was the weapon (and the removal of the shield for the Longsword). Today was quite fun. (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Other conclusion, related to the subject: 8% of my base damage output per stack seems quite low, stated just like that, but actually it's certainly way more powerful than a rapier's Penetrated Armor against an Imperil'ed monster. And then more than one stack utterly defeats a rapier against the said Imperil'ed monster. Against a non-Imperiled monster, things are a bit more though to compare. At best (and I'd really like to emphasize this), a rapier can deal a stack of PA that reduces a monster's PMit from 80% to 60% (80%PMit * 0.75 = 60%PMit), to be counted for the next attack. In the meanwhile, a shortsword's Bleeding Wound will deal two/three dots of 8% each, amounting to an average total of 20% of an attack's unmitigated power. And then the rapier will have the upper hand on every subsequent hit. Overall and contrarily to the popular belief, both weapons are rather balanced regarding their procs. It's just that a rapier will shine when you're taking long to kill a single monster, otherwise it's rather the shortsword that will be better, especially when you use Imperil. The only issue with the shortsword is that the attack speed bonus will prevent the dot from occuring every once in a while, but this is balanced with the higher ADB of the weapon as well as its very slightly higher crit chance (due to higher STR PAB). TL;DRRapiers being better is only a myth. They are certainly better when hitting the same non-Imperil'ed monster multiple times, but the shortsword is actually not far behind. And then against Imperil'ed monsters, the rapier stands zero chance against the shortsword. Overall both weapons are very viable: it all depends on your playstyle. For Imperil 1H, both are rather on the same level, with the shortsword having the upper hand when the amount of continuous hacking at the same non-Imperil'ed monster is limited. PS: Lestion edited the wiki with the accurate mechanics of Bleeding Wound. There is absolutely no room for uncertainty anymore. https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Equipment_ProcsThis post has been edited by decondelite: Jan 26 2020, 18:03 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 26 2020, 17:51
|
Scremaz
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 24,304
Joined: 18-January 07
|
QUOTE(decondelite @ Jan 26 2020, 16:19)
Rapiers being better is only a myth. They are certainly better when hitting the same non-Imperil'ed monster multiple times
from how i read it, a shortsword needs imperil to be comparable to a rapier, right? wouldn't this mean that actually "rapier ~ shortsword + imperil", hence "rapier > shortsword (alone)" ? This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 26 2020, 17:51 |
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
 |
|
 |
|
