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In a long fight the poison damage adds up. I don't have the equipment to do fast kills on FSM, even in normal difficulty. Poison's mana cost isn't that great so it's an easy extra 6k-ish damage. That's 4-5 hits in melee, but I have to cast it 10+ times. I might have to try without it to compare.

Does Poison's damage go up based on the monster's original hp on normal, or it's difficulty-adjusted hp?

In a long fight the poison damage adds up. I don't have the equipment to do fast kills on FSM, even in normal difficulty. Poison's mana cost isn't that great so it's an easy extra 6k-ish damage. That's 4-5 hits in melee, but I have to cast it 10+ times.

Why don't you just focus first and then cast? It will surely hit then. It doesn't seem to make sense to cast it 10 times just to get 4-5 hits when you could have been swinging away 10 times anyway.

I meant that 6k is about the same as 4-5 melee hits. But during a single fight with FSM I cast Poison more than ten times. So the damage adds up, and rather cheaply too. Anything that finishes the fight sooner is good.

I usually don't have a problem landing it. Though I always focus when casting Silence.

Poison isn't too good if you have Silence, since you've basically counted out the fear from the monster charging up its powerful shots.


The following is if you do not care about the extra effects of Poison (halved MP/SP gain):

The better your depreciating proficiencies are, the more the damage will feel "worth it". Especially with a spell like Poison, where the base duration is extremely long, some increased points of proficiency would make a really noticeable difference in duration.

For example, with at least 100 depreciation proficiency, with the formula

duration = base_duration * (1 + [additional_AP / 4]) * (1 + [proficiency / 50])

Poison's base duration being 15, 5 points in poison would be

15 * (1+1) * (1+2) = 90 turns

I'm not sure what the true base HP of FSM is, but let's assume it does 400 a turn - that's a grand total of 36k damage, for the cost of 15 base mana. Assuming you are not killing him faster than 90 turns in this situation, it's a great cheap damage tool. I also don't think Smite (13 base mana) at level 100 would match up to 36k damage, even with full Heimdall gear.

Is Poison really good for damage for 5 AP? No. You may as well spend those 5 AP on better skills instead.

I tried FSM just now, with my light armor. Normal difficulty.

The increase in the duration of the spells was quite noticable over my plate duration. Twenty mp a cast. I hit 88 rounds with Poison, at 279 damage a round. 24,552 damage over it's duration. And the fight lasted over 500 rounds, which made it well over 100,000 damage the entire fight.

Not the best spell, but I'd have been fighting for over 100 more rounds with the weapon I was using, an ethereal club.

This post has been edited by Drawde: Nov 2 2011, 10:01

[troll]

People discuss about how to kill FSM, ...today? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

RoB is so ridiculously easy now its not even worth talking about it; just use whatever gear you want, no need for special armor set, let alone any holy/dark mit gear, and you will win.

[/troll]

[troll]

People discuss about how to kill FSM, ...today? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

RoB is so ridiculously easy now its not even worth talking about it; just use whatever gear you want, no need for special armor set, let alone any holy/dark mit gear, and you will win.

[/troll]

Level 252 (Godslayer)

k.

Level has nothing to do with it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

The reason is much simpler than that: Player got buffed + RoB monster got nerfed... It took me about a thousand turns to kill FSM on normal at 122 using specialize equipment, and this was after he got nerfed (resist bug was introduced when Tenb upgraded HV a few weeks before this fight) ... I didn't even try to fight him before this nerfed, since my chance of winning is so slim... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

1) Get underleveled and crappy gear to make up for the higher stats and proficiencies
2) Go fight FSM
3) Make sure you don't use Spirit Shield, Heartseeker, Arcane Focus, Nerf, MagNet or Regen II
4) Report back results

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Am I missing something here: Why would you want to keep Silence and Poison on FSM? Just for the reduction to its evade chance? I don't remember Poison's DoT being all that great, and halving its MP and SP regeneration rates is moot since Silence is on.

Poison is great damage for melees. FSM lasts a long time so the poison gets to do it's full damage, which is pretty considerable, since it lasts so long.
And it becomes even greater when you get spirit shield, and can put weaken on FSM instead, so that the halved MP/SP will get some use.

And the reduction in evade chance is nothing to scoff at. Considering how cheap poison is, and how long it lasts, even giving a 5% increase in chance to hit, is quite noteworthy just by itself.

But all of these things rolled into one, makes poison pretty good.

[troll]

People discuss about how to kill FSM, ...today? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

RoB is so ridiculously easy now its not even worth talking about it; just use whatever gear you want, no need for special armor set, let alone any holy/dark mit gear, and you will win.

[/troll]

FSM is not all that hard, once you start getting the necessary spells. But he is long and boring, and ways to make it faster is always appreciated.

Otherwise, you could take him on with nothing but magic missile (assuming you are a mage), sure you will win, especially with access to all the spells and ET and stuff at your level. But it will be long and boring, even if it isn't very hard.



Also, I really am considering switching from melee to mage....just seems like there will be such a huge change to make, needing to train up new proficiencies (staff, cloth, forbidden/divine/elemental*), resetting my ability tree and deciding what spells to get and getting a decent set of phase armor....

*Which of these is best for a lvl 200+ mage? Should one go for elemental for the cheaper spells, or go straight to holy/dark/soul spells? Or is it almost a must to get all, and vary your gear depending on the type of battle?

This post has been edited by Randommember: Nov 2 2011, 18:18

Level has nothing to do with it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

The reason is much simpler than that: Player got buffed + RoB monster got nerfed... It took me about a thousand turns to kill FSM on normal at 122 using specialize equipment, and this was after he got nerfed (resist bug was introduced when Tenb upgraded HV a few weeks before this fight) ... I didn't even try to fight him before this nerfed, since my chance of winning is so slim... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif)

Player's level still have the influence. Think about Nerf, Spirit Shield and Heartseeker/Arcane Meditation for example. It was a pain to deal with FSM without this things (Nerf and Heartseeker for me).

*Which of these is best for a lvl 200+ mage? Should one go for elemental for the cheaper spells, or go straight to holy/dark/soul spells? Or is it almost a must to get all, and vary your gear depending on the type of battle?

Elemental for non-bosses. The rest for bosses.

Too bad, I ran out of token... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

and ways to make it faster is always appreciated.

DW: Club & Rapier + a few Infusion of Divinity.
Armor: Shade with high damage bonus or Shadowdancer. You don't have to care about defense stats.
Spells: Haste, Weaken or Silence, Slow, Poison.

What to do

- Buff & Debuff
- Use Infusion of holy
- Keep whacking him
- Once his SP is almost full, use Scroll of life / Spark / Silence
- Regen & Cure when needed
- Use Infusion of holy
- Keep whacking him
- Use Infusion of holy
- Keep whacking him

** This is for low lv. player. For higher lv player: add more buff-debuff to your liking.

I second lowering your INT. Since you are not caster, you get more benefits from putting points into all your other stats. But because INT does increase your mana for every 4 points, it's still good to invest some in it. I usually keep my INT around 30-35 points below my WIS. The reasoning is because at 30-35 points below, the cost of 4 points in INT would be equal to 1 point in WIS in terms of increasing your mana. If you want to be really accurate, just make sure you invest points in the cheaper of the following two choices:

1. Total exp cost for 4 points of INT
2. Exp cost for 1 point of WIS

Example: If it costs me a total of 60,000 exp to increase INT by 4 and it only costs 58,000 exp to increase WIS by 1. Put the exp towards WIS. Now the next WIS point will probably cost more than 60,000. So the next time I have the exp, I'd put it into 4 points of INT.

(Sorry to butt in while you guys are so busy discussing FSM.)
I've been browsing and saw this. Which is wrong I believe.

I get the reasoning, and you're probably right while being a little off. I've been arranging my stats as well these days and I came to the conclusion to leave it at a 1:3 ratio not 1:4.
Because every WIS point raises your Magic Points by 1, except for every fourth point (before MP Tank Modifier). So you get 0.25 MP per INT and 0.75 MP per WIS. Which puts it to a "3 points of INT would be equal to 1 point in WIS" instead. In terms of mana points anyway.

I've been allocating my stats evenly for hundreds of levels so I'm trying to optimize them instead.
(rounded down for convenience)

evenly distributed:
STR 16%
DEX 16%
AGI 16%
END 16%
INT 16%
WIS 16%

And what I'm doing now is to optimize this without losing any stats I need. (Well quite frankly I could go lower with INT, since WIS gives better bonuses like mitigation, regen and resist. But this isn't a good idea. Lowering INT beyond a point to increase WIS even further will result in lower mana points. You'll start to trade more and more INT points for 1 WIS. Which isn't worth it. Obviously.)

So lowering INT and increasing WIS to a point where 1 MP from INT costs the same as 1 MP from WIS is the ratio I want.

current distribution:
STR 16%
DEX 16%
AGI 16%
END 16%
INT 8%
WIS 24%

What I need next is to do something about END. Unfortunately I can't lower either DEX or AGI, I'm phase melee so I need the avoidance stats. My defences are like.. non-existant.
And END is kind of useless to me. Except for HP.
There's no health regen in battle, so that's out. Physical and magical mitigation are low priority with my equip.
So should I decrease END and put the exp in DEX and AGI instead? I'd be losing HP though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So should I decrease END and put the exp in DEX and AGI instead? I'd be losing HP though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I too, feel like spending 5 mil+ exp on a mere 10 HP (and 0.07% damage mit) just isn't worth it anymore. I've left my END where it's at, since I'd rather take the action speed and 0.04% evasion bonus over the tiny health and mitigation bonus. The growth of END HP relative to your HP just gets lower and lower, whereas additional Action Speed is always welcomed.

This post has been edited by CrazyFlame: Nov 2 2011, 20:16

I prefer single element focus to frontload as much damage on the first strike as possible. If you're building a new set though, you'll probably be mixing and matching anyways as you won't be able to fill all slots.

Sorry for the necro-quote, but is it possible to front-load as much damage on the first strike as possible that you can clear rounds in one turn on higher difficulties--say, Nightmare and up? Or is the idea to kill as much as possible on the first turn?

At this point, it takes me about two turns to clear a round. So for End of Days and higher, and maybe even lower arenas, I was thinking about making an all-Fenrir suit with the idea that the money shot happens on the second turn. On the first turn, I would cast the relatively cheap Purge (ideally against a monster weak to Holy), and on the second turn, I would cast Pestilence or Ragnarok on a monster with CM. The second spell would be backed by EDB from the suit, Breached Defense, and trigger additional damage by exploding Breached Defense. Hopefully that would be enough to clear most rounds, barring cleanup with Magic Missile or the presence of a Legendary or something. But if it's possible to stack your damage to such a degree that you can clear rounds in one turn, then it's probably safer the safer option.

Oh, and when making an EDB suit, should the staff's suffix be Destruction, or should it match the suit's element?

I wouldn't really expect to consistently 1-shot on any difficulty other than normal. And yes, more kills -> less incoming damage.

I haven't used my Fenrir suit too much, but I prefer Ragnarok > Purge. Ragnarok has a 100% chance to apply the dark debuff, so you have a mini AOE Weaken in addition to a guaranteed explosion next round.

As far as damage potential goes, Destruction > EDB-suffix > Proficiency-suffix, but it really depends on the staff's stats and the rest of your gear.

Pestilence has a 80% chance of causing Blunted Attack, which is usually enough for most things.
I only use Ragnarok as the opening spell on BT and higher, where virtually anything can kill you.
Using Ragnarok constantly will drain you of your mana very fast, though.

@n125:
Add some words about front-load damage.

For your strategy you'll need to achieve either of these two conditions; otherwise you're at risk of some easy deaths.
1. You're way faster than most of the monsters, so you're not getting many counter-attacks after you've casted the weaker spell.
2. You're playing at a difficulty that you won't die even if you get counter-attacks after casting the weaker spell.

For the first condition, I would say it's fairly difficult to achieve right now after lv.200; with those user-made monsters dominating, it's a task to achieve. (and you've to consider the haste nerf)
And considering that purge is a tier-2 spell (which requires more time to cast that tier-1 elemental spells), it seems to me that it's not a good choice to back-load damage.

For the second condition, it may actually work in IW. But then I can easily go through a 200-level IW on hard with pestilence, there's not much reason for me to try back-loading.

About one-shot everything;
I would say it's fairly impossible now for higher-difficulty (nightmare or above), since monsters have way more resistance than before.
For heroic or below....well sometimes I can one-shot with pestilence on heroic in IW, but it's an unstable strategy.

@Ballistic9
About staffs:
Remember what Ichy/sushi0 have once talked about that EDB staffs have higher actual damage output? (I mean those with very good status)
I may have some reasoning behind.

Now, before that base damage is introduced, INT/WIS affects your magical rating, staff affect a magical damage multiplier, and EDB clothes gives you EDB bonus.
It means that INT/WIS and staff has separate effect in the magical formula, which looks like this:
(magical rating)(1+ MD multiplier)(1+ EDB)(1+elem. prof.)
And since we don't naturally gain that MD multiplier and EDB bonus, it's better to use EDB clothes and high MD multiplier (destruction staff) in order to gain the most cross-term effects in the damage formula.

After the introduction of base damage, however, INT/WIS and staff MDB now directs to the same modifier called 'base damage'. The formula now looks like
(base damage)(1+EDB)(1+ elem. prof)
Notice that base damage and elem.prof. now grows naturally with your level, while we still don't have any natural EDB.
It probably means that at some level, the effect of increasing base damage (from destruction staff) may be smaller than the effect of increasing EDB, because of that cross-term effects.
At what level? I have no idea right now. It may require tons of calculations and assumptions.

Fiddling around in my spreadsheet, Exq. Destruction staves still look pretty good @ Lv315. Though I must say it's nice to know what INT & WIS actually do now.