[X] My Assistant

2% yep. what made you think differently?

I don't trust things to be correct unless there has been independent verification by someone trustworthy, that's all. (the other IW potencies are extremely easy to verify, but this one required a bit of math that I can't recall ever seeing someone do, and I wouldn't have been surprised if the actual multiplier turned out to be slightly different from commonly-accepted description.

On the bright side, I think I finally have my percentile ranges script up and running, now fully accounting for forge levels and IW levels. In the future, all percentages displayed will be the unforged and un-IWd stats.

I don't trust things to be correct unless there has been independent verification by someone trustworthy, that's all. (the other IW potencies are extremely easy to verify, but this one required a bit of math that I can't recall ever seeing someone do, and I wouldn't have been surprised if the actual multiplier turned out to be slightly different from commonly-accepted description.

On the bright side, I think I finally have my percentile ranges script up and running, now fully accounting for forge levels and IW levels. In the future, all percentages displayed will be the unforged and un-IWd stats.

well, let's pick a couple rapiers to verify:

• blackjac00's Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Slaughter, ADB forge lv100 (1.66x multiplier), Butcher lv5, publicly listed in his sig.
  base ADB = 93.53, with unforged ADB = 51.33. ratio = 1.82. let's suppose IW and forge stack multiplicatively and Butcher levels additively, so if we do multipliers ratio we should have roughly 1.1 = 1 + 0.02*5. now, 1.82/1.66 = 1.0964 ~ 1.1 CVD.
• Drksprnt's Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Balance, ADB forge lv11 (1.207x multiplier), Butcher lv5, publicly listed in his sig.
  base ADB = 51.99, with unforged ADB = 39.38. ratio = 1.32. with the same ipothesys as before, if we do multipliers ratio we should have roughly 1.1 = 1 + 0.02*5. now, 1.32/1.207 = 1.0936 ~ 1.1 CVD.

so, we know:

1. ADB forge and Butcher potency stack multiplicatively
2. every Butcher level adds +2% ADB
3. Butcher levels are simply added
4. formula for total ADB may be something like: base_ADB * ( 1 + forge_gain ) * ( 1 + Butcher_level * 0.02 )

if someone else has another ipothesys, feel free to discuss. but it seems to me that this satisfies Occam's razor as well (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hello experts! I have a probably dumb question, just about comparing two pieces of equipment.

I've tried to use the Hentaiverse Equipment Comparison script, but I get weird results. The numbers don't make sense, and some of the script functions don't appear to work. I might have my firefox settings done in a way that interferes with the script, but I haven't had any luck troubleshooting it. But that's not what I'm here asking about. I'll go to the script thread when I have some more time and ask there.

Basically, I just want to know

1) If either of these are worth soulbonding, in your esteemed options, as I still haven't worked out the long term benefits of soulbonding.

2) Which is "better".

Specifically (or at least, the most salient thing from my limited perspective), are the PABs on the Magnificent Grieves I just got as a drop really worth the extra interference/burden vs the Legendary ones I currently equip? Any other thoughts would be very welcome as well, of course.

EDIT: Fixed links

Magnificent Plate Greaves of Deflection

Legendary Mithril Plate Greaves of Warding

Thank you in advance!

This post has been edited by sogeth: Dec 2 2016, 14:46

well, let's pick a couple rapiers to verify:

• blackjac00's Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Slaughter, ADB forge lv100 (1.66x multiplier), Butcher lv5, publicly listed in his sig.
  base ADB = 93.53, with unforged ADB = 51.33. ratio = 1.82. let's suppose IW and forge stack multiplicatively and Butcher levels additively, so if we do multipliers ratio we should have roughly 1.1 = 1 + 0.02*5. now, 1.82/1.66 = 1.0964 ~ 1.1 CVD.
• Drksprnt's Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Balance, ADB forge lv11 (1.207x multiplier), Butcher lv5, publicly listed in his sig.
  base ADB = 51.99, with unforged ADB = 39.38. ratio = 1.32. with the same ipothesys as before, if we do multipliers ratio we should have roughly 1.1 = 1 + 0.02*5. now, 1.32/1.207 = 1.0936 ~ 1.1 CVD.

so, we know:

1. ADB forge and Butcher potency stack multiplicatively
2. every Butcher level adds +2% ADB
3. Butcher levels are simply added
4. formula for total ADB may be something like: base_ADB * ( 1 + forge_gain ) * ( 1 + Butcher_level * 0.02 )

if someone else has another ipothesys, feel free to discuss. but it seems to me that this satisfies Occam's razor as well (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Good idea, I didn't think about looking at Peerless. I assumed multiplicative as well before this. On the Slaughter one, my script is giving me base ADB 96% and base parry 90%
50.95 ADB
18.63 Parry

Both of which are in line with my more manual spreadsheet calculations. But that's not 100%, either for damage (affected by Butcher) or parry (not affected by Butcher). Dunno what's going on, want to double check me? I guess I blame the wiki...?

Oh well, it's probably close enough. 10% error after very heavy forging, but usually when that happens the gear gets soulfused anyway.

Magnificent

Legendary

Those are both the same equip, and it's Plate, which is junky. Save your fragments for later, until there are actual high-quality gears from higher-level players worth soulfusing down to your level.

First soulfuse a weapon (likely a prefixed rapier with useful suffix), then think about soulfusing Mag+ armors with ADB if you ever come across any that look good enough and are in your level range.

fix links, please. both of them are pointing out to the Leg one. however, if both are plates, then i think none of those is worth soulfusing.

Good idea, I didn't think about looking at Peerless. I assumed multiplicative as well before this. On the Slaughter one, my script is giving me base ADB 96% and base parry 90%
50.95 ADB
18.63 Parry

Both of which are in line with my more manual spreadsheet calculations. But that's not 100%, either for damage (affected by Butcher) or parry (not affected by Butcher). Dunno what's going on, want to double check me? I guess I blame the wiki...?

Oh well, it's probably close enough. 10% error after very heavy forging, but usually when that happens the gear gets soulfused anyway.

well, P-range values are widely known due to lotteries, and at least for more coveted items (like Rapiers) it should be promptly updated.
i guess the problem is in the forge formula. i remember that back then we spoke about it contaning a little error, which is somehow negligible at low forge levels, but it can give some errors at high levels. if the script is based upon that formula, then it contains that error as well.

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 2 2016, 13:43

fix links, please. both of them are pointing out to the Leg one. however, if both are plates, then i think none of those is worth soulfusing.

My apologies: I fixed the links:

EDIT: Fixed links

Magnificent Plate Greaves of Deflection

Legendary Mithril Plate Greaves of Warding

I do have a (probably foolish) soul fused rapier, and a couple potentials that I might replace it with:

ANy thoughts on these weapons?

My current mainstay:
Superior Hallowed Rapier of the Nimble

Something I am considering Soulfusing to replace it:
Exquisite Rapier of Slaughter

My offhand weapon choices (though I've settled into 1H/Shield/Heavy armor for a while now).

Magnificent Wakizashi of the Nimble

Legendary Arctic Shortsword of the Vampire

Exquisite Wakizashi of Slaughter

Both of which are in line with my more manual spreadsheet calculations. But that's not 100%, either for damage (affected by Butcher) or parry (not affected by Butcher). Dunno what's going on, want to double check me? I guess I blame the wiki...?

Forge formula is a bit wrong and always gives slightly higher result than the real one.

100 forging of ADB/MDB gives, more or less, ~1.6515x, calculated on my peerless oak of focus.
This would give 1.103 if used to calculate the value of butcher5.

Considering that there are some weird roundings on equipment values (focus staves have 0.01 more MDB for example) I would say that we can assume 10% as correct.

Forge formula is a bit wrong and always gives slightly higher result than the real one.

100 forging of ADB/MDB gives, more or less, ~1.6515x, calculated on my peerless oak of focus.
This would give 1.103 if used to calculate the value of butcher5.

Considering that there are some weird roundings on equipment values (focus staves have 0.01 more MDB for example) I would say that we can assume 10% as correct.

i'd prefer to do that on weapons with high ADB to reduce the chance of a mistake. you know, relative errors tend to be higher on lower values and such. still looking at blackjac's sig, there's this Peerless Ethereal Axe of Slaughter: base ADB 138.71. remove Butcher 5 (assuming it's exactly 1.1x) and we'll have 126.1. compare it with wiki's 75.92 and we have 1.661 multiplier for forge lv100.
wiki formula would give us 1.669x, with a 0.5% error. something like that.

different people, different tastes, same result (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

i'd prefer to do that on weapons with high ADB to reduce the chance of a mistake. you know, relative errors tend to be higher on lower values and such

What?
0.01 precision in a 31.99 staff means the max error should be 0.016% (if rounding) or 0.031% (if truncating).
Pretty much nothing.
On the other end if you do the same on a weapon with both forge and butcher you will never be sure which part is due to the forge and which part is due to the butcher, making the whole result unreliable.

What?
0.01 precision in a 31.99 staff means the max error should be 0.016% (if rounding) or 0.031% (if truncating).
Pretty much nothing.
On the other end if you do the same on a weapon with both forge and butcher you will never be sure which part is due to the forge and which part is due to the butcher, making the whole result unreliable.

and 0.01 precision on a 75.92 weapon means 0.013% error. btw, where does that 0.016% come from? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

and yep, we know it. i showed it before that they stack multiplicatively (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) but if it's non-Butcher items that you want, there's always America. base ADB = 135.04. unforged 82.07 with current range. i reckon the difference with the old range was negligible, so the ratio gives us 1.645x. quite different if compared to what formula gives us, but while waiting to find the proper value on wiki it's still enough to say that IW and forge stack multiplicatively (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[edit]: this revision says P ADB = 81.25. therefore 135.04/81.25 = 1.662x. quite near to the 1.661x i found before, i guess. i'd say potencies indeed stack multiplicatively (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 2 2016, 17:24

and 0.01 precision on a 75.92 weapon means 0.013% error. btw, where does that 0.016% come from? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

The maximum error is LSB/2 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
0.031% only if you truncate the result (so it can be as high as the LSB)

i showed it before that they stack multiplicatively (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

But you cannot be sure that butcher is exactly 10% and not some of the usual overly complex HV formulas.
I mean, I subjectively agree with your result, but having unknown variable (ex. true value of butcher5) is much worse than a 0.016% rounding error.

But you cannot be sure that butcher is exactly 10% and not some of the usual overly complex HV formulas.
I mean, I subjectively agree with your result, but having unknown variable (ex. true value of butcher5) is much worse than a 0.016% rounding error.

oh, that's easy to verify. we only need an unforged IWed item with either P ADB or known base ADB. here's an example: Peerless Hallowed Shortsword of Balance, listed on ssss's shop. base ADB = 51.68. vanilla ADB = 47.92 from wiki. 51.68/47.92 = 1.0784 ~ 1.08. we know that every level of Butcher gives 2%, so it's immediate to verify they stack additively.
could they stack multiplicatively? something like ( 1 + 0.02 ) ^ (Butcher_level) = 1.02^4 = 1.0824. not so different. given the spread i'm prone to think it's additive but truth is, it doesn't matter so much.
anything else?

Which Deprecating Abilities would you recommend me to activate, if any?

This post has been edited by gianfrix94: Dec 2 2016, 19:30

Imperil and silence (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Which Deprecating Abilities would you recommend me to activate, if any?

Better Silence, if you unlocked it. better to have it ready when needed. if you use Imperil, a couple levels on Better Imperil won't hurt. then, personally i didn't slot anything else, but these are the only two that i still use ever once in a while.
which deprecatives do you use, if any?

Better Silence, if you unlocked it. better to have it ready when needed. if you use Imperil, a couple levels on Better Imperil won't hurt. then, personally i didn't slot anything else, but these are the only two that i still use ever once in a while.
which deprecatives do you use, if any?

Right now, i use only sleep (fully slotted, the only deprecating).
I unlocked everything apart from MagNet i think, i have 50 deprecating prof.
I guess Silence and Imperil are the only other two worth getting, then.

Right now, i use only sleep (fully slotted, the only deprecating).
I unlocked everything apart from MagNet i think, i have 50 deprecating prof.
I guess Silence and Imperil are the only other two worth getting, then.

magnet for mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

magnet for mage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Yeah, i meant for me, and for now, i both aren't a mage and haven't enough prof for MagNet (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Right now, i use only sleep (fully slotted, the only deprecating).

the purpose is boosting what you are using, so if you're already using Mind Control then you're good to go. btw, with the same ability Confuse is boosted too, so you may want to try to use that as well. possibly not in already sleeping mobs (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
and if you did, could you please report if a Confused mob can use its MP/SP attacks on other mobs? i stopped using it because i didn't note it...