[X] My Assistant

Thanks! I am trying to create excel-table to automate process of pricing based to quality-, rare-, suf-, -prif-, PABs- parameters. The problem is find good and logic coefficient. >_>

Too many variables. It'd be barely doable but you'd need a lot of experience with the market first for it to be accurate, and even then there'd likely be very high variance - the best that could be accomplished would probably be to price "within half an order of magnitude" most of the time (which is a very large range).

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 29 2016, 09:45

Thats almost impossibly. Price is relative. Definitely we can say if gear is good it ll get 50k, or in some cases few millions. But besides that it all depends on how many players wanna get it.
Actually i thing in this case its better to make something like collection of auc items.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Feb 29 2016, 09:53

Too many variables. It'd be barely doable but you'd need a lot of experience with the market first for it to be accurate, and even then there'd likely be very high variance - the best that could be accomplished would probably be to price "within half an order of magnitude" most of the time (which is a very large range).

I know, but it is not impossibly. I made similar stuff for different game with a lot more parameters to firearms.
Yes, I am lack of experience about trading that I am asking experts about the more accurate price for equips. ^^

And we dont talk here about the only-est price for equips - anyone can put whatever they want price on every equip, but we can a mathematics formula to calculate that some equip is better than other one, and can presentate this differences in calculation fashion.

I know, but it is not impossibly. I made similar stuff for different game with a lot more parameters to firearms.
Yes, I am lack of experience about trading that I am asking experts about the more accurate price for equips. ^^

And we dont talk here about the only-est price for equips - anyone can put whatever they want price on every equip, but we can a mathematics formula to calculate that some equip is better than other one, and can presentate this differences in calculation fashion.

Or rather you can make a sheet to calc how good an equip is. Price is always relative and changing there is no point to make that.
For example look at the recent radiant ice pants sold for 85m, I can bet the next one will only sell half the price.

Such a thing was possible in certain games, such as Diablo 3, partially due to discrete variables. Eg "5.5cc Mempo is definitely worth between A and B, 6.0cc Mempo is definitely worth between C and D", the existence or nonexistence of property X drastically increases the price or is useless", etc. Of the small handful of HV gear types that are worth anything in a serious style, the gear variables are way too continuous by comparison. Another reason is the large playerbase of other games compared to HV - there, there will always be demand for even only decently rolled gear, unlike in HV, where most players at high level (of which there are only a handful) who are smart with their funds buy upgrades very rarely, so calculating an accurate predictable price for gear valuable enough to be worth thinking much about could be very very difficult, and even if it was programmed perfectly you'd find it would either need a large margin of error (very wide confidence interval) or would be inaccurate too often just due to the natural large variance in the HV market.

Sure, it'd definitely be possible to near exactly judge how good a given equip actually is, given enough information about stats, base values, game mechanics, etc. A statement such as "X is definitely better than Y even though their stats look extremely similar" is quite determinable though some sort of accurate process. (The problem is that then translating equipment quality into an accurate market price is either too inaccurate or too wide an interval to be useful.)

Part of this I blame on 0.82. Important stats used to have a wide range, and looking at the actual base value of a stat was extremely important, because L grade might vary from below S to Lmax. But now, not only are there many more possible rolls (eg a stat whose possible base rolls separated by 0.005 instead of 0.03), they're also much more constricted to a narrow range (slightly below Mmax to Lmax = P). So now, unlike before, "Legendary [Prefix] [Type] [Suffix]" alone will give you most of the information you need to know, and there are usually only one or two or three inner stats whose precise value within the L-range matters to anyone.

Or rather you can make a sheet to calc how good an equip is. Price is always relative and changing there is no point to make that.
For example look at the recent radiant ice pants sold for 85m, I can bet the next one will only sell half the price.

Like that... the variance would just be too high, even for someone (or a program) with perfect knowledge.

Or rather you can make a sheet to calc how good an equip is.

Yeah, this is actually what I am trying to do. Basing to "default bazaar selling price" and counting different parameters and attributes, - I am trying to calculate equip's "awesomness".
This is more trial & error -way to calculate equipment's price. I need to take more feedback about pricing from community. But first I need to loot that equips down - I have dozens of AVER and SUP and a little EXQ; where my MAG and LEG? >_>

default bazaar selling price

Uh-uh. Has no correlation at all aside from indicating rare-tier.

Or rather you can make a sheet to calc how good an equip is. Price is always relative and changing there is no point to make that.
For example look at the recent radiant ice pants sold for 85m, I can bet the next one will only sell half the price.

yup , while peerless radiant ice cap only sold around 50m some months ago (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by nobody_xxx: Feb 29 2016, 11:12

Well, I think a good idea would be to make a database of sold auction items.

It will then compare against the database and list out some of the auction item with the closest specs to the user's equipment.

Well, I think a good idea would be to make a database of sold auction items.

It will then compare against the database and list out some of the auction item with the closest specs to the user's equipment.

How do you compare specs?
You have to weight every single parameter to really get a meaningful result (also level may be important for a 400k item that will be interesting for medium level player, for a radiant phase is totally meaningless, so the correct weight may vary), and even there the variation is large.
Example: this peerless rapier sold for 9m while in last auction this one sold for 11m.

Yeah, this is actually what I am trying to do. Basing to "default bazaar selling price" and counting different parameters and attributes, - I am trying to calculate equip's "awesomness".
This is more trial & error -way to calculate equipment's price. I need to take more feedback about pricing from community. But first I need to loot that equips down - I have dozens of AVER and SUP and a little EXQ; where my MAG and LEG? >_>

You only need to find peerless range of all equips and compare them to leg equips most of the range are already out there so its pretty easy. Also you need to know the stat preference of each equips.
For example power armor adb>dex>pmi> , but of course preference may vary for different people.

Uh-uh. Has no correlation at all aside from indicating rare-tier.

I know, I am using it only for base calculation - as a "prime point" for next procedure in calculation.
The more i think of it, - the more I understand that excel-table is very restricted and limited for this. So many "IF" and "ELSE", - better to utilize script for this, or simplifite calculation... >_>

I know, I am using it only for base calculation - as a "prime point" for next procedure in calculation.
The more i think of it, - the more I understand that excel-table is very restricted and limited for this. So many "IF" and "ELSE", - better to utilize script for this, or simplifite calculation... >_>

I actually have an excel sheet that can do this for you. It's not perfect but it has helped me find the "quality" of an item almost instantly. Basically you open the item you're looking at, then press the key and it extracts the information into excel and it finds the relevant ranges and values. It takes me 2 seconds to find item quality range and I have minimal experience.

Would you like a copy to see which route I went for? I'm not sure which direction you're going but it might help you get there.

Why might Agi > End? I've always thought Agi was pretty bad.

i'm a fan of bigger HP pools as well, but AGI boosts Evade. there's no way a Shade user could sacrifice it, it's one of the strong points of that style

im not using it. i play 1h power.

just want to know what are the good combinations that worth something.

heavy i already know because i'm playing it. and cloth i learned because from all the 7 legendaries i dropped 6 were cloth .... i even got one peerless phase...

i havent yet got one leg heavy...

light is the last one i need to learn.

oh. then surely the Exq is bazaar fodder. whether to salvage or bazaar, it's up to you.
the Mag may interest a low level, but only because it will be very cheap.

The problem is find good and logic coefficient. >_>

uh... i'm afraid there aren't. apart for the complexity of the market, it's relatively quick to change and one patch can fuck everything for good. even the fact than it's quite quick to adapt to changes means calculate prices rationally will be a hell. better to rely on offer/demand.

Or rather you can make a sheet to calc how good an equip is. Price is always relative and changing there is no point to make that.
For example look at the recent radiant ice pants sold for 85m, I can bet the next one will only sell half the price.

yep. that's what i meant. if the right buyer sees the right item at the right time, then a warbid will start. otherwise, less incoming for the seller.

Well, I think a good idea would be to make a database of sold auction items.

It will then compare against the database and list out some of the auction item with the closest specs to the user's equipment.

nah. once someone finds an item and buys it (even if overpriced) then there is less room for raises. as an extreme case, let's say that there are five items of the same kind that will be put on auction. the fifth one will be undoubtly cheap as hell, so much that even previous buyers will bid on it even if just for spite (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

How do you compare specs?
You have to weight every single parameter to really get a meaningful result (also level may be important for a 400k item that will be interesting for medium level player, for a radiant phase is totally meaningless, so the correct weight may vary), and even there the variation is large.

undoubtly. a lower level will surely attract more audience. thus higher prices. but it means another parameter, so a function of one more variable.

Example: this peerless rapier sold for 9m while in last auction this one sold for 11m.

yep. right buyer at right time. also, probably Wind Strike may perform better than Elec on average

i'm a fan of bigger HP pools as well, but AGI boosts Evade. there's no way a Shade user could sacrifice it, it's one of the strong points of that style
oh. then surely the Exq is bazaar fodder. whether to salvage or bazaar, it's up to you.
the Mag may interest a low level, but only because it will be very cheap.
uh... i'm afraid there aren't. apart for the complexity of the market, it's relatively quick to change and one patch can fuck everything for good. even the fact than it's quite quick to adapt to changes means calculate prices rationally will be a hell. better to rely on offer/demand.
yep. that's what i meant. if the right buyer sees the right item at the right time, then a warbid will start. otherwise, less incoming for the seller.
nah. once someone finds an item and buys it (even if overpriced) then there is less room for raises. as an extreme case, let's say that there are five items of the same kind that will be put on auction. the fifth one will be undoubtly cheap as hell, so much that even previous buyers will bid on it even if just for spite (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
undoubtly. a lower level will surely attract more audience. thus higher prices. but it means another parameter, so a function of one more variable.
yep. right buyer at right time. also, probably Wind Strike may perform better than Elec on average

Yup, when you want something, you get it. You don't assess the market value of that item, you assess your own pool of funds and compare your own unique requirement. At this point, I was waiting for a leg rapier for the longest time. I didn't care whether it was elec,wind or whatever. I just needed something to upgrade a mag rapier I had. So this was my only chance. The next one that is sold, unless is exceedingly better than the current one will as you suggest go for much cheaper.

At the end of the day it's not the value of the item that decides the price, it's the demand in relative to supply. And you can never get a full scope of that picture. Unless there's 2 players in the game and you know every item of value in the game. And even then, if it comes to a bid war it will escalate the price significantly based on ego and stubbornness. You could look at 5x "actual value" on any given item.

On that note, the ponies are getting tighter and tighter. I had 15s to answer one just now, wtf? Sometimes the image doesn't even load so I have to close the browser, quickly reopen HV and stab an answer in. These tight ponies man...

uh... i'm afraid there aren't. apart for the complexity of the market, it's relatively quick to change and one patch can fuck everything for good. even the fact than it's quite quick to adapt to changes means calculate prices rationally will be a hell. better to rely on offer/demand.

I am working with laws - believe me logic is everywhere and we can find it =P
This world no more no less than complex mathematical formula and this can not exception. If we cant find a way to describe something in a formula-like way, this mean we doing something wrong...
Everything has a price and calculation it is possibly,
BUT
it is true that

when you want something, you get it.

Player can spend 4xfunds that equip actually costs. And dont even start to talk about auctions where everybody just forget about real price at all. Cases may be different and price can change rapidly, but to find "optimal" is real...

Yup, when you want something, you get it. You don't assess the market value of that item, you assess your own pool of funds and compare your own unique requirement. At this point, I was waiting for a leg rapier for the longest time. I didn't care whether it was elec,wind or whatever. I just needed something to upgrade a mag rapier I had. So this was my only chance. The next one that is sold, unless is exceedingly better than the current one will as you suggest go for much cheaper.

At the end of the day it's not the value of the item that decides the price, it's the demand in relative to supply. And you can never get a full scope of that picture. Unless there's 2 players in the game and you know every item of value in the game. And even then, if it comes to a bid war it will escalate the price significantly based on ego and stubbornness. You could look at 5x "actual value" on any given item.

yep. market doesn't give a damn about which reasons you have to buy a certain thing - for example, look at collection items: who uses them? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) - market only cares about the fact that if demand is high and constant, then most likely price will raise

On that note, the ponies are getting tighter and tighter. I had 15s to answer one just now, wtf? Sometimes the image doesn't even load so I have to close the browser, quickly reopen HV and stab an answer in. These tight ponies man...

yep. i lost a few stamina because of those. i also saw a question mark popping out once (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This world no more no less than complex mathematical formula and this can not exception. If we cant find a way to describe something in a formula-like way, this mean we doing something wrong...

An ideal worth aspiring to, if only because solvable problems feel so much better than uncertain ones.

Well, there are some exceptions for certain esoteric cases. Busy beaver. Completeness/consistency. Halting. Etc. They're fascinating to me.

But the problem here is not that, but rather that there's just way way too much variance:

Such a thing was possible in certain games, such as Diablo 3, partially due to discrete variables. Eg "5.5cc Mempo is definitely worth between A and B, 6.0cc Mempo is definitely worth between C and D", the existence or nonexistence of property X drastically increases the price or is useless", etc. Of the small handful of HV gear types that are worth anything in a serious style, the gear variables are way too continuous by comparison. Another reason is the large playerbase of other games compared to HV - there, there will always be demand for even only decently rolled gear, unlike in HV, where most players at high level (of which there are only a handful) who are smart with their funds buy upgrades very rarely, so calculating an accurate predictable price for gear valuable enough to be worth thinking much about could be very very difficult, and even if it was programmed perfectly you'd find it would either need a large margin of error (very wide confidence interval) or would be inaccurate too often just due to the natural large variance in the HV market.

Sure, it'd definitely be possible to near exactly judge how good a given equip actually is, given enough information about stats, base values, game mechanics, etc. A statement such as "X is definitely better than Y even though their stats look extremely similar" is quite determinable though some sort of accurate process. (The problem is that then translating equipment quality into an accurate market price is either too inaccurate or too wide an interval to be useful.)

About this:

Battles won:

Does not count deaths to a player's own monsters

https://ehwiki.org/wiki/monster_lab

How low do you think the probability of meeting your own monster should decrease (through global monster population increase and/or others phenomenons) for it to be reversed, because dying to help your own monster would not be worth it anymore (though with damage to equipment and possibility of being too far to stop in arena/grindfest already don't make it worth a lot IMO)

This post has been edited by uareader: Feb 29 2016, 13:49

About this:https://ehwiki.org/wiki/monster_lab

How low do you think the probability of meeting your own monster should decrease (through global monster population increase and/or others phenomenons) for it to be reversed, because dying to help your own monster would not be worth it anymore (though with damage to equipment and possibility of being too far to stop in arena/grindfest already don't make it worth a lot IMO)

Given that gc00018 exists, and given that all other general PL 1500+ monsters appear with very predictable regularity, I don't think there is anything. Besides, I like seeing my monsters in battle.

Running from battle for the sake of increasing your monster's wins (if it were possible) would already be too tedious or unprofitable, probably, at least for those leveled enough and who play enough to have heavily invested in monster lab like that. What's the average profit per high PL gift? <8k? Just go through a minute or two more of spellspam instead of cutting off your battle series prematurely and the player will get the same amount of income that they would have gotten from a gift.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Feb 29 2016, 14:03