[X] My Assistant

speaking of which, time to raise both elemental and divine prof. not that i actually need them, only wanting to unlock all spells. i hate those empty lines on the spell list (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Significant. Much better to switch to mage for some time.

Hi guys, I came back to the game after a month or so break and found that the cooldown rate on Cure is 5 turns and is pretty weak. I've checked my abilities and better cure is maxed ( I reset and maxed it again to be sure). Am I missing something?

Hi guys, I came back to the game after a month or so break and found that the cooldown rate on Cure is 5 turns and is pretty weak. I've checked my abilities and better cure is maxed ( I reset and maxed it again to be sure). Am I missing something?

Did you make sure to slot the ability? You need to both have points invested and to have the ability slotted for the current equipment set.

Did you make sure to slot the ability? You need to both have points invested and to have the ability slotted for the current equipment set.

God dammit, I don't remember moving it. Thanks yeah, that was it.

A question I've suspected for a while: does Tokenizer only increase Chaos drop rate? (Blood drop rate remains the same?)

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Jan 21 2016, 19:29

As i remember it changes ratio. Im not sure, but im doing only arenas and because its usually round clear bonus drops then its not very good. That means sometimes its not enough even for noodly daily. Instead i get slightly more chaos.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jan 21 2016, 19:34

Thanks for the one relevant thing you did post, Superlatanium. I did some calculations, and 170 EDB would be plausible at Lv.200, albeit pretty high.

According to my calculations, the maximum EDB you can get with Lv.200 gear, focusing on [one of fire/cold/wind/elec], should be somewhere around:

CODE

With EDB Prefix & Suffix Staff:
All Superior:           ~175.80 (±15.00)
All Exquisite:          ~199.24 (±10.00)
All Magnificent:        ~214.54 (±20.00)
All Legendary/Peerless: ~237.22 (±10.00)

With EDB Prefix Staff:
All Superior:           ~153.56 (±15.00)
All Exquisite:          ~176.08 (±10.00)
All Magnificent:        ~189.78 (±10.00)
All Legendary/Peerless: ~207.14 (±10.00)

[Determined the scaling factor from gear with EIDs higher than 85,000,000; unless there's a major error in my calculations, or the scaling formula was modified and the wiki hasn't been updated to reflect it yet, the wiki's EDB scaling factor appears to be incorrect, hence the plus or minus 10 standard variance. Superior and Magnificent have the most variance because the wiki's information on Superior Phase Gloves EDB is outright nonexistent, its information on prefix/suffix Magnificent Redwood Staves is blatantly incorrect (the min value is in both the min and max boxes), and the equipment ranges formula wasn't giving me accurate info, so I had to extrapolate both from currently existing gear.]

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Edit: No bug in the wiki's scaling formula. See below.

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I think this is just general advice for like trouble shooting, they always start with the stupidest questions.

As you your question, no they are not good stats.
You want to add your stats evenly for example wis=int=end=agi=0.5dex or wis=int=end=agi=dex, they are weighted for exp required not actual ratio because this way you can have the most stat points for the least exp spent.

What would be the point of adding DEX if I don't need it, though, out of curiosity? o.O Diminishing returns isn't a good reason to put points in dump stats that don't really help you just because they're cheaper than the stats you actually use (doing so could actually be detrimental in the long run, as it means your main stats will be lower than an optimised build), and the only real benefit DEX would give is 1% parry per 25 DEX (not a worthwhile investment, IMO, especially with mage gear not having DEX bonuses). I'm shoring up END a bit at the moment, and might add more AGI if I want more mitigation & evasion, but I honestly don't see how DEX would help a build that doesn't depend on physical attacks. The only use I have for physical attacks is triggering ether tap, or hurting the rare enemy that resists every element too much to reasonably kill with magic, which isn't enough to justify it.

If DEX has some hidden benefit for spellcasting, I'd love to hear it, though.


Also, thanks for actually answering the question without having to be called out for ignoring it to try & push me into your comfort zone first. (And you shouldn't assume everyone starts off with the dumbest questions, it's not necessarily true.)

cool your engines, bro.
i looked at what latanium says for quite a while, and he isn't a cocky guy who go around saying "you have to do what I want you to do, rather than what YOU want to do".
he, like many other people here are only a player who uses his knowledge to help players of all levels. and like me and other ones he's only positive that someone going here asking for help is positive about wanting to optimize his build.
what we suggest here isn't what we want you to do, is what we noted is the best for achieving a certain degree of results, continuosly upgraded by the feedbacks of people who asks for help.

as for you, it's true that you said "i only want to hear whether my build is good or not", but my personal opinion is it actually is so little optimized that the best thing to do is to re-start again from zero. i would've surely written myself if he hadn't.

feel free to take my post as an interpretation on what happens here, or to discard it as an anonymous comment from an anonymous person on the internet. right now, my priority is making lunch ready (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
it's not impossible, it's only a waste of time. as i said before, we only suggest the most optimized build. what you actually want to do is your choice. if your choice is to brag rights about what you're doing, then go without a build at all. you'll be the toughest guy around here.

and what i cut from this post are actually quite big words. keep them for when you'll have to lecturing your childs, they may come handy (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

1) Optimising a build means "making it the most efficient build for the playstyle it's intended for", not "making sure it's the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle, regardless of how the player actually wants to play". Suggesting anything other than the former isn't giving someone advice about "optimising their build", no matter who may claim it is; while it may optimise their Exp. gain, it does so at the expense of their build unless they're already focused on the most efficient playstyle.

2) If you only know about the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle, then you should just admit that you don't know how good one's stats are if they're based on any other playstyle and defer to someone that does, instead of telling the person that they should play the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle because it's the only one you're familiar with. That's what this boils down to.

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Edit: There's no bug in the scaling formula, I just misread it, and thought I saw an extra set of parentheses where I didn't. Recalculated stats, and my estimates were spot on according to the formula. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

This post has been edited by conundrum: Jan 21 2016, 23:25

If DEX has some hidden benefit for spellcasting, I'd love to hear it, though.

even if it doesn't boost attack power, it still raises Parry. it's another layer of defense against physical attacks - such as those coming from Giants and Arthropods, that at your level are quite frequent and tend to hurt a lot
it also raises SP base tank (thus SP Tank), which is good for defensive spells like Spirit Shield and Spark

1) Optimising a build means "making it the most efficient build for the playstyle it's intended for", not "making sure it's the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle, regardless of how the player actually wants to play". Suggesting anything other than the former isn't giving someone advice about "optimising their build", no matter who may claim it is; while it may optimise their Exp. gain, it does so at the expense of their build unless they're already focused on the most efficient playstyle.

2) If you only know about the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle, then you should just admit that you don't know how good one's stats are if they're based on any other playstyle and defer to someone that does, instead of telling the person that they should play the most efficient build for the most efficient playstyle because it's the only one you're familiar with. That's what this boils down to.

fine, fine. keep your freedom.
anyways, yep. i'm focused on the melee part of the game. even though i don't know how to optimise the full gameplay for a mage, i still have a basic knowledge about that

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Jan 21 2016, 21:47

Chill out. If you bothered to read my posts you'll see I never told you to change, or that you should change, but that that's what I would do because mage is pretty ineffective for low-level players.

If you didn't know that before, it's very useful information to know and understand, even if you weren't specifically asking about it. You may consider it useless if you wish though, it's up to you to believe whatever you wish to believe, after all.

If the issue is "Extra information that 99% of people will find very relevant" and "No extra information at all", I'm going to pick the former. My apologies if you think meta-build efficiency is unimportant, you're of course free to do whatever you prefer. Even if someone wants to mix plate/cloth/2h (which we have seen in the past (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)), no one's going to stop them, even though they certainly should be made aware that such a playstyle is quite bad... even if they don't specifically ask about such a thing when they describe their equipment.

If you want to try out melee just to see how it works, I'm more than happy to give you some of the stuff from my free section.

The thing is, though, that while I use fire the most, I still use the others at times.

If you use only one element you'll be significantly more effective - that way you can focus on just one element's EDB and you're free to ignore the rest.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Jan 21 2016, 21:50

From what I understand the chance of getting a gain in magic proficiency is based on the cost of the spell, compared to how much my base mana is, so I assume a spell that costs 100 mana when I have 500 would work out giving profiency at the same rate as a spell costing 50 mana if I have 250 mana. My question is though, is the amount of the gain itself affected, i.e will it always be 0.1 or in that region, or is there a way of getting bigger gains at a time?

This post has been edited by Mrsuperhappy: Jan 21 2016, 21:57

What would be the point of adding DEX if I don't need it, though, out of curiosity? o.O Diminishing returns isn't a good reason to put points in dump stats that don't really help you just because they're cheaper than the stats you actually use (doing so could actually be detrimental in the long run, as it means your main stats will be lower than an optimised build), and the only real benefit DEX would give is 1% parry per 25 DEX (not a worthwhile investment, IMO, especially with mage gear not having DEX bonuses). I'm shoring up END a bit at the moment, and might add more AGI if I want more mitigation & evasion, but I honestly don't see how DEX would help a build that doesn't depend on physical attacks. The only use I have for physical attacks is triggering ether tap, or hurting the rare enemy that resists every element too much to reasonably kill with magic, which isn't enough to justify it.

If DEX has some hidden benefit for spellcasting, I'd love to hear it, though.
Also, thanks for actually answering the question without having to be called out for ignoring it to try & push me into your comfort zone first. (And you shouldn't assume everyone starts off with the dumbest questions, it's not necessarily true.)

We dont have the new exp for stat point formula yet, since the new patch out. Maybe someone can figure that out. Without that we can't calculate optimal stat allocation, but if you put dex at 0, in later levels like level 400 you can get 400 dex points for the price of 1 agi point.

And you are right, mage gear has no dex so its weaker than agi.

From what I understand the chance of getting a gain in magic proficiency is based on the cost of the spell, compared to how much my base mana is, so I assume a spell that costs 100 mana when I have 500 would work out giving profiency at the same rate as a spell costing 50 mana if I have 250 mana. My question is though, is the amount of the gain itself affected, i.e will it always be 0.1 or in that region, or is there a way of getting bigger gains at a time?

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Proficiencies#Gains

It's random. The wiki says it can be between 0.01 and 0.04 but I can't remember seeing 0.04 gain anytime recently. Perhaps the cap is higher for lower level players.

The gain is at least 0.01 - 0.03 though.

The training Assimilator can increase the gain rate, but it's not that cheap for low-level players. It's probably only worth it for those with a lot of extra funds who also mage. Note that it doesn't increase the magnitude gained, but only the rate.

We dont have the new exp for stat point formula yet, since the new patch out. Maybe someone can figure that out.

[keisan.casio.com] http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/14059930973581
I took a few numbers from my current stats

y = AB^x
y = 354.4815 * 1.034037203 ^ x
correlation: 0.99999981

While this looks accurate for high PAB levels, it might not be right for lower levels, maybe the distribution changes.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Jan 21 2016, 22:13

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Proficiencies#Gains

It's random. The wiki says it can be between 0.01 and 0.04 but I can't remember seeing 0.04 gain anytime recently. Perhaps the cap is higher for lower level players.

The gain is at least 0.01 - 0.03 though.

The training Assimilator can increase the gain rate, but it's not that cheap for low-level players. It's probably only worth it for those with a lot of extra funds who also mage. Note that it doesn't increase the magnitude gained, but only the rate.

0.04 prof gain is [puu.sh] possible, but it's very rare. I believe I've seen 0.05 a couple times, but I can't provide solid proof.

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even if it doesn't boost attack power, it still raises Parry. it's another layer of defense against physical attacks - such as those coming from Giants and Arthropods, that at your level are quite frequent and tend to hurt a lot
it also raises SP base tank (thus SP Tank), which is good for defensive spells like Spirit Shield and Spark

We dont have the new exp for stat point formula yet, since the new patch out. Maybe someone can figure that out. Without that we can't calculate optimal stat allocation, but if you put dex at 0, in later levels like level 400 you can get 400 dex points for the price of 1 agi point.

And you are right, mage gear has no dex so its weaker than agi.

Ah, okay, I'll look into that later, then, probably once I get one of my stats to 300 or so. It's not a high priority until then, IMO, with how much I'd have to pump it up to see a noticeable difference in survivability.

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[keisan.casio.com] http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/14059930973581
I took a few numbers from my current stats

y = AB^x
y = 354.4815 * 1.034037203 ^ x
correlation: 0.99999981

While this looks accurate for high PAB levels, it might not be right for lower levels, maybe the distribution changes.

Entering x as the stat's current level and y as the Exp. for the next level, I got:

A = 57.934475
B = 1.044069433
Correlation = 0.978489655

CODE

y = 57.934475 * 1.044069433 ^ x

(Entered data: Exp. required to increase stat at 0-19, 114, 219, 240, and 248-250.)

Alternatively, if you want x to start at 1 instead of 0, it becomes:

A = 55.4891017
B = 1.044069433
Correlation = 0.978489655

CODE

y = 55.4891017 * 1.044069433 ^ x

(Same data as before, just incremented x for each pair.)

Not sure how accurate this is, further testing is likely required.

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Chill out. If you bothered to read my posts you'll see I never told you to change, or that you should change, but that that's what I would do because mage is pretty ineffective for low-level players.

If you didn't know that before, it's very useful information to know and understand, even if you weren't specifically asking about it. You may consider it useless if you wish though, it's up to you to believe whatever you wish to believe, after all.

If the issue is "Extra information that 99% of people will find very relevant" and "No extra information at all", I'm going to pick the former. My apologies if you think meta-build efficiency is unimportant, you're of course free to do whatever you prefer. Even if someone wants to mix plate/cloth/2h (which we have seen in the past (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)), no one's going to stop them, even though they certainly should be made aware that such a playstyle is quite bad... even if they don't specifically ask about such a thing when they describe their equipment.

Ah, okay.

If you want to try out melee just to see how it works, I'm more than happy to give you some of the stuff from my free section.

Nah, but thanks anyways. I've already got some melee equipment just in case, and I can buy more in the shop if I need to.

If you use only one element you'll be significantly more effective - that way you can focus on just one element's EDB and you're free to ignore the rest.

From what I can tell, it's not really viable to specialise in a single element until around Lv.375 or so, lower-level phase gear is too rare to be able to get a full set and/or keep one around roughly the same level as you. Take my Lv.125 phase pants, for example: they're the only part of a set of 3-4 Lv.125 phase items (I found in the shop) that had good enough stats that I haven't needed to replace them with cotton gear for being too weak. Once you get to Lv.375-400, though, it's easy to find relevant phase gear (I already have a Lv.383 cap, Lv.379 gloves, and Lv.402 pants, and I'll get the other two when I see ones I like), so you can easily specialise.

At lower levels, I actually think proficiencies and destruction will benefit you more, unless you're willing to soulfuse items to keep them from getting outdated. And in all honesty, if you're soulfusing lower-level items, there should be a good reason, like the item in question being rare (such as my staff, being an ethereal one with a surter suffix), or exceptionally good for its kind (such as my robe, which has higher base evade (3.29) & ele prof (8.2) than the listed max for superior robes (3.21 & 7.39), plus a casting speed bonus).

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...And it turns out there's no bug in the scaling formula, I just misread it and thought I saw an extra pair of parenthesis. My bad. Recalculated, my estimates were spot on, edited my above post to point this out. xD

This post has been edited by conundrum: Jan 22 2016, 00:21

At lower levels, I actually think proficiencies and destruction will benefit you more, unless you're willing to soulfuse items to keep them from getting outdated. And in all honesty, if you're soulfusing lower-level items, there should be a good reason, like the item in question being rare (such as my staff, being an ethereal one with a surter suffix)

why do you even bother with ethreal staff? no burden and interference? void? youre not really arcane blow every enemies are you?

im a low level mage myself so im not being sarcastic, seriously asking here.
also, ive read about elemental+destruct (fiery+destruct) or matching name (fiery+surtr) would be much better.

This post has been edited by diegodiego13: Jan 22 2016, 08:00

why do you even bother with ethreal staff? no burden and interference? void? youre not really arcane blow every enemies are you?

im a low level mage myself so im not being sarcastic, seriously asking here.
also, ive read about elemental+destruct (fiery+destruct) or matching name (fiery+surtr) would be much better.

IMHO zero interference/zero burden trumps every other competing option. That becomes instantly apparent the moment you have to cast regen and heartseeker/arcane focus without the benefit of channeling. The greatly reduced pots usage alone is invaluable.

IMHO zero interference/zero burden trumps every other competing option. That becomes instantly apparent the moment you have to cast regen and heartseeker/arcane focus without the benefit of channeling. The greatly reduced pots usage alone is invaluable.

Staffs have no interference no matter whether they're Ethereal or not. It does not reduce potion usage.

The effect of 5-10 something burden on evade is tiny. Unequipping my non-Ethereal staff takes me from 57.2 evade to 58.5 evade. There are no other benefits to Ethereal. I can always Featherweight if I wish to remove the burden completely.

The bonus EDB provided by a prefixed staff is quite large. It's not too different from giving up an entire EDB armor slot.

So, a staff prefixed in your element will be worth many, many times more than an Ethereal staff every time.

Imo, diegodiego13 is right.

For mages, the worst staff prefix is a non-matching elemental prefix (eg, arctic when you are a fire mage). Because you are giving the EDB you'd get from a matching prefix, and getting nothing useful in return.

The second worst prefix is Ethereal. Because you are giving up the elemental damage bonus on every turn, and getting
- zero burden (but you can featherweight the staff to achieve the same at negligible cost)
- void strike (which is pretty useless, since mages should not be bashing monsters with their staves)

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Jan 22 2016, 08:59

Do weapons with holy damage gain the soulfire proc?
spent a exorbitant amount of time getting this to lvl 10 and spending my credits getting all of the upgrades at 5,

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=42f5337488

And its a hillariously weak weapon still, ugh... the grind to get level 10 on exquisites are horrendous, i dont know how i'll do a magnificent weapon even.