[X] My Assistant

I now have 21 figurines but can't see OFC at all?

Change equipment sets and change back.

I now have 21 figurines but can't see OFC at all?

Are they all different figurines?
If yes, switch Equipment sets, that usually makes it show up

Fixed, thanks ^^

Is 0.695 the proficiency you need for all elemental mage styles to be equal when using imperil?
With only 4-5% difference in dmg for elec and wind if using maxed out proficiency, I wonder if it would end up faster without imperil. I suppose it depends on how much dmg is lost to max it out.

Not, but you might prefer even higher prof for sg. Also prof gives many bonuses, but its a bit different story. I was curios about no imperil pf when i did sg, but thats probably doesnt work well. Thats ok against weak monsters and they die fast, but once tanky comes its very long fight. Well, in numbers its quite simple:

1600pl giant at 450lvl with max training has 228k hp and almost 76% mmi. Its equal to 946k base damage from spells. After 1,1-1,5 turns on imperil (depends on depr counter-resist) it becomes 367k. Even with 30k magic score T3 hits for ~280k base damage. So imperil in few times better than even T3. That strategy has sense only for low diff, on high diff monsters is usually tanky enough.

Not, but you might prefer even higher prof for sg. Also prof gives many bonuses, but its a bit different story. I was curios about no imperil pf when i did sg, but thats probably doesnt work well. Thats ok against weak monsters and they die fast, but once tanky comes its very long fight. Well, in numbers its quite simple:

1600pl giant at 450lvl with max training has 228k hp and almost 76% mmi. Its equal to 946k base damage from spells. After 1,1-1,5 turns on imperil (depends on depr counter-resist) it becomes 367k. Even with 30k magic score T3 hits for ~280k base damage. So imperil in few times better than even T3. That strategy has sense only for low diff, on high diff monsters is usually tanky enough.

This fits just perfect, as i think i may have done the long version over the last couple hours (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

HP-weighted Analysis

Calculated sum of ' hp / (1 - mitigation) '

ex) hp 100,000 * (1 - mit 40%) = 250,000

CODE

Level 468
grindfest @ PFUDOR
10x 400 rounds

Proficiency  0.695 (mit -29%)
             1.0   (mit -50%)

Imperil   -40% for Elemental spell
             -25% for Holy & Dark spell

==========================
      |  prof (-29%)                   |  prof+imperil (-69% / -54%)    |  prof (-50%)                
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire  |   8,227,041,790  |   114.529%  |   5,787,254,842  |   100.110%  |   6,477,334,548  |   108.468%  
Cold  |   7,915,956,546  |   110.198%  |   5,785,659,501  |   100.082%  |   6,379,188,239  |   106.824%  
Elec  |   7,763,192,387  |   108.072%  | * 5,780,905,277  | * 100.000%  |   6,295,302,738  |   105.420%  
Wind  |   7,638,069,429  |   106.330%  |   5,782,884,953  |   100.034%  |   6,263,222,451  |   104.883%  
Holy  |   7,331,157,484  |   102.057%  |   5,939,708,268  |   102.747%  |   6,042,140,971  |   101.180%  
Dark  | * 7,183,374,604  | * 100.000%  |   5,888,639,025  |   101.864%  | * 5,971,656,056  | * 100.000%  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
base  |   5,774,555,185  

- Elec > Wind > Cold > Fire (not much difference)
- Not using Imperil, Dark and Holy is better than others.

Thanks for the research,

this and the recount comment a couple pages back gave me an idea (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think we may be looking at the whole mage damage thing wrong. My thought is that instead of damage, we should look
at monster HP in a roundabout kinda inverted way.
The term I mean comes from WoW theorycrafting and is called Effective HP (short EH, which is kinda funny imho).
Originally it starts with your basic HP and factors in things like armor and other damage mitigation effects, but
instead of looking at the damage taken, the system assumes that any incoming damage is constant, but instead your HP
scales with your mitigating effects.

So the general Mage damage formula

CODE

Damage Taken = Original_Damage_Roll * (1 - Magical Mitigation) * (1 - Specific Mitigation)

translates to

CODE

Effective Monster HP = Original Monster HP \ (1 - MMI) \ (1 - SMI)

Example, i'm gonna take my favorite Monster Kodou Yuki with about 125k HP and Sssss2 with about 85k HP.
Next, i'll just check for Fire res, since it's assumed to be the worst right now. I'll also just assume, that everything
is fully chaosed, as we don't have any information regarding chaos trainings. This puts MMI to 20%, or 0.2 (Important for
Imperil). KY has 75% Fire SMI, S has 28% Fire SMI.

So according to my theory the EH end up at

CODE

MMI may not go below 0, SMI may not go below 0

Base:
  KY: 125000 \ (1 - 0.2) / (1 - 0.75) = 625000
  S : 85000  \ (1 - 0.2) / (1 - 0.28) = 147569

179% prof (-35.1 SMI):
  KY: 125000 / (1 - 0.2) / (1 - (0.75 - 0.35)) =
      125000 / (1 - 0.2) / (1 - 0.4)           = 260417
  S : 85000  / (1 - 0.2) / (1 - (0.28 - 0.35)) =
      85000  / (1 - 0.2) / (1 - 0)             = 106250

Imperil (-40 SMI, -50% MMI):
  KY: 125000 / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - (0.75 - 0.4)) =
      125000 / (1 - 0.1)       / (1 - 0.45)         = 252525
  S : 85000  / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - (0.28 - 0.4)) =
      85000  / (1 - 0.1)       / (1 - 0)            = 94444

179% prof (-35.1 SMI) & Imperil (-40 SMI, -50% MMI):
  KY: 125000 / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - (0.75 - 0.35 - 0.4)) =
      125000 / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - (0.4 - 0.4))         =
      125000 / (1 - 0.1)       / (1 - 0)                   = 138889
  S : 85000  / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - (0.28 - 0.35 - 0.4)) =
      85000  / (1 - 0.2 * 0.5) / (1 - 0)                   =
      85000  / (1 - 0.1)       / (1 - 0)                   = 94444

So ... assuming i didn't frak up my math too much, we can observe multiple things. For the following let's assume our
Spell does 100k fixed damage (since we shifted damage reduction towards enemy HP).
1) Comparatively little changes to SMI result in large changes to damage required (0.75 to 0.4 SMI results in 58% less
HP / damage needed)
2) We don't even need to Imperil S, since it's gonna die within 2 casts anyway, and, besides the last case, we need 3
casts anyway to kill KY.

Resulting from 2) the Imperil strategy should be to reduce the highest EH target as much as possible (basically, just
Imperil anyway, the rest is passive), then get the rest of the enemies inside the damage range that kills the highest EH
target (in the example from above KY needs 2 casts fully debuffed, so every other monster should have 200k EH or less).

CODE

--- Scan Data ---
Scanning Sssss2...                                      | Scanning Kodou Yuki...
    HP: 29592/83320     MP: 569/1187     SP: 114/1182   |     HP: 101628/123660     MP: 367/1244     SP: 374/1276
Monster Class:  Daimon, Power Level 1698                | Monster Class:  Arthropod, Power Level 2250
Monster Trainer:    sssss2                              | Monster Trainer:    HTTP/308
Melee Attack:   Piercing                                | Melee Attack:   Crushing
Fire:+28%                                               | Fire:+75%
Cold:+3%                                                | Cold:+25%
Elec:+28%                                               | Elec:+75%
Wind:+28%                                               | Wind:+75%
Holy:+25%                                               | Holy:+62%
Dark:+68%                                               | Dark:+62%
Crushing:-25%                                           | Crushing:-25%
Slashing:-25%                                           | Slashing:+25%
Piercing:-25%                                           | Piercing:+0%

Hmm, i think i fracked up anyway ... SMI may as well go below 0, as some monsters do start with negative SMI ... meh (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by simrock87: Jan 2 2016, 01:54

Is 0.695 the proficiency you need for all elemental mage styles to be equal when using imperil?
With only 4-5% difference in dmg for elec and wind if using maxed out proficiency, I wonder if it would end up faster without imperil. I suppose it depends on how much dmg is lost to max it out.

1) I think the most efficient mitigation reduction is 70% (or less slightly).

To reach that point, with Imperil, proper proficiency factor is 0.71.

0.71 ^ 1.5 * 0.5 = 30%
+ 40% (Imperil)
= 70%


2) Holy/Dark Imperil's reduction is just 25%, so it needs to adjust.

0.93 ^ 1.5 * 0.5 = 45%
+ 25% (Imperil)
= 70%

You have to equip 2 proficiency cottons, which lowers a magic score.


3) In this reason, Holy/Dark mage are good for non-Imperil playing.

A low effectiveness of Imperil means a low loss of non-Imperil.


4) Non-Imperil is easy, but it cannot be faster than Imperil playing.

The only wrong way is because its only halfway. I mean that weighted hp is much closer to theoretical max difference and in reality we get:
1. Overdamage
2. Round composition
3. Different spell procs
Which affects clearspeed. It d be perfect if all hp was bound to single monsters, but its small difference for many monsters. So sometimes that additional hp wont change turns amount. In my practice difference between fire and wind in 50 mitg reduction was ~2,5%.

Your calculation and idea is right. We can skip some imperil casts. For example mark specific monsters or something similar. But i prefer simple/fast 2-5-8 casts.

Holy/Dark Imperil's reduction is just 25%, so it needs to adjust.
You have to equip 2 proficiency cottons, which lowers a magic score.

Lowers magic score, but gives counter-resist. On pf counter-resist from prof is very close to same value as magic score. So overall difference in clearspeed isnt very big plus side bonuses from repair/mp prices and slightly T3 casting speed. Im not sure, but wiki says max bonus for T3 is 900 prof. Dont see any problem to use 3+2, because it gives ~same result, but also easy to play sg without switch or kill strong monster faster. It might be even less cures.

2) Holy/Dark Imperil's reduction is just 25%, so it needs to adjust.

You have to equip 2 proficiency cottons, which lowers a magic score.

3) In this reason, Holy/Dark mage are good for non-Imperil playing.

So it looks like:
(*) If playing without Imperil, Holy/Dark is far better than elemental (as everyone knows)
but also
(*) If playing with Imperil against standard monsters (not SGs), Holy/Dark is notably worse than elemental
You need more prof equip to get the same mitigation reduction, which means less EDB and magic score. If you don't try for the same mitigation reduction, then you may get the same EDB as elemental but you'll still be doing less damage. Spell damage is very similar to elemental (with all AP), but cast time is longer and mana cost is higher.

Its easy to compare wind/elec willow with willow dark, because its same staff. This way dark has:
+Lower monsters mitg
-Lower imperil mitg reduction
+Higher edb in staff
+Higher spell damage for T1-T2

Looks more or less ok, isnt?
But yea, higher mp price and casting speed. Even with elemental im spending ~10k/hour for mp pots. So its also important.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jan 2 2016, 02:21

Yeah, you said you'd at least try to read messages and then you proceeded to continue doing the same thing you'd been doing the past month... of ignoring everything. What else can I conclude? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...t&p=4293387

And I sent you more PMs but you just kept ignoring.

Anyway, I gave up, I'm done, I've deleted the script attachment and everything and advise no one to deal with you in the future.

I'd have PMd this to you instead of here, but you'd probably ignore the PM as well unless it's posted in a thread.

I didn't ignore anything. Those messages never reached my inbox. Here's proof:

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] http://i.imgur.com/2gQjH1h.jpg)

I swear that's the truth. You are mad at me for no reason. It's a misunderstanding.

what should i use ?

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=0f3e8c6e6c

or

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=63cc330c60

my main doubt is Interference... one have 4% other 34%...

and i already have 107 interference =/

Legendary Ruby Force Shield of Warding
Worth anything?
Seems I got a pretty awesome co-efficient rolls from it.
(IMG:[i.imgur.com] http://i.imgur.com/mDPUrAj.png)

This post has been edited by kazsax11: Jan 2 2016, 06:54

Legendary Ruby Force Shield of Warding
Worth anything?

Pretty good shield, good block, decent PABS.
I think the good suffixes to get are Protection/Warding/Dampening.
Level bounded under 400.
I think it might go for pretty high in auctions.

I didn't ignore anything. Those messages never reached my inbox. Here's proof:

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] http://i.imgur.com/2gQjH1h.jpg)

I swear that's the truth. You are mad at me for no reason. It's a misunderstanding.

There's a really awesome forum function called [Message Tracker] which allows u to see if the recipient has received and read the message already, it also allows the sender to retrieve the message if it hasn't been read yet.
It looks pretty much like this.

If message was read, it would have gone to the 'Read Messages' section in which then shows the date and time the recipient read it. At this point, the sender would be unable to retrieve the sent message.

Yeah, you said you'd at least try to read messages and then you proceeded to continue doing the same thing you'd been doing the past month... of ignoring everything. What else can I conclude? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?s=&am...t&p=4293387

And I sent you more PMs but you just kept ignoring.

Anyway, I gave up, I'm done, I've deleted the script attachment and everything and advise no one to deal with you in the future.

I'd have PMd this to you instead of here, but you'd probably ignore the PM as well unless it's posted in a thread.

He deleted the messages and attachments after u decided to ignore him, which is why those message never reached ur inbox. So at this point, ur screenshot hardly proofs anything.

Sorry for being a meddler, just had to let everyone know about this awesome [Message Tracker] and that people should read their inbox more often.
(IMG:[emoticoner.com] http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed3-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)

This post has been edited by izpekopon: Jan 2 2016, 07:35

I didn't ignore anything. Those messages never reached my inbox. Here's proof:

I swear that's the truth. You are mad at me for no reason. It's a misunderstanding.

I think its possible, I sent some pm in the past few days. I can see my pm in the "sent" tab, but I dont see anything in the "message tracker" tab, no unread, no read, just nothing. Of course I ticked both boxes when I send the pm. So maybe they are lost?

I think its possible, I sent some pm in the past few days. I can see my pm in the "sent" tab, but I dont see anything in the "message tracker" tab, no unread, no read, just nothing. Of course I ticked both boxes when I send the pm. So maybe they are lost?

But in this case, it appeared on super's unread tab?
(IMG:[emoticoner.com] http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hehe-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507)
Can't be too sure about things, maybe the messages did get lost, who knows.

I didn't ignore anything. Those messages never reached my inbox. Here's proof:

Obviously you can't see them now, read the past few posts:

Anyway, I gave up, I'm done, I've deleted the script attachment and everything and advise no one to deal with you in the future.

I'd have PMd this to you instead of here, but you'd probably ignore the PM as well unless it's posted in a thread.

They were sitting in your inbox for weeks, up until a few hours ago, but you either deleted them without reading, or you just plain ignored them like you did from November. You just did the same thing that you did before again. The system wouldn't have let me retract the messages (or put them in my Sent folder) unless the messages did indeed exist in the first place. Either you decided never to click on your "1 New Messages" "2 New Messages" "3 New Messages" over the past few weeks, or you did click on it just so you could delete them without reading and hope I forget about it.

I think its possible, I sent some pm in the past few days. I can see my pm in the "sent" tab, but I dont see anything in the "message tracker" tab, no unread, no read, just nothing. Of course I ticked both boxes when I send the pm. So maybe they are lost?

My messages most certainly were in my "Message Tracker" as "Unread" (as you can see in the screenshot - up until a few hours ago, when I decided to give up and delete the attachments and PMs trying to help), as well as still being in my "Sent" folder. The other user either deleted them without reading or just let them sit in his inbox without reading.

Sorry for bringing the drama into this thread, but since crazy3d ignores every PM this is the only way to communicate. I won't make any more posts on this issue.

Yay~ level 350!
(IMG:[emoticoner.com] http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed1-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)

[Melee PFU T&T]
[attachembed=77177]

[Mage PFU T&T]
[attachembed=77176]

Seems like my clear time is about the same, using melee or mage.
Maybe its because i have to keep recasting imperil when the mobs resists (hate it when that happens, especially twice in a roll).

(IMG:[emoticoner.com] http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/hate-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862507) Imperil! Imperil! Imperil! Imperil! Imperil! Imperil! Imperil! Imperil!

That said, i prefer mage alot more compared to melee (seems more enjoyable).

This post has been edited by izpekopon: Jan 2 2016, 09:22

Ah ha! We didn't think they existed, but I finally found a rare-tier Exquisite worth more from salvaging than from being sold! Exquisite Force Shield of Stoneskin (which used to be at) 51% condition, sell value of 864c, salvage value of 600c (MGW) + 80c * 2 (scrap) + ~185c * 1.5 (energy cell) = 1038c expected. (For this to be the best action, the equipment must have a low base value as well as being very close to 51%)

(Other rare-tier gear that may be worth more in salvage mats than in sell value: Mag+ Phase because HGC is worth so much, and Average gear of any type, because Average gives much more scrap and energy cells relative to sell value than higher quality gear. Rare tier Superiors = always bazaar, Exquisites = bazaar 99.5% of the time, Mag+ shade = always bazaar, Mag+ power = bazaar ~80% of the time, Mag+ phase = salvage oops again 100%? of the time)

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Jan 2 2016, 14:02

Ah ha! We didn't think they existed, but I finally found a rare-tier Exquisite worth more from salvaging than from being sold! Exquisite Force Shield of Stoneskin (which used to be at) 51% condition, sell value of 864c, salvage value of 600c (MGW) + 80c * 2 (scrap) + ~185c * 1.5 (energy cell) = 1038c expected. (For this to be the best action, the equipment must have a low base value as well as being very close to 51%)

(Other rare-tier gear that may be worth more in salvage mats than in sell value: Mag+ Phase because HGC is worth so much, and Average gear of any type, because Average gives much more scrap and energy cells relative to sell value than higher quality gear. Rare tier Superiors = always bazaar, Exquisites = bazaar 99.5% of the time, Mag+ shade = always bazaar, Mag+ power = bazaar ~80% of the time, Mag+ phase = bazaar 50%? of the time)

How much on average do u get for selling a Mag+ phase to the bazaar?
Seeing that HGC=>16k, i think salvaging Mag+ phase usually gets the best returns.

How much on average do u get for selling a Mag+ phase to the bazaar?
Seeing that HGC=>16k, i think salvaging Mag+ phase usually gets the best returns.

Uhm. I think you're right, I was thinking of the wrong data average. I only have 3 Mag phase in my inventory but none will be worth more than 10k at 100% condition, so maybe they should always be salvaged. (Like everyone, I don't get Mag phase drops often enough to remember (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif))