[X] My Assistant

Thats an interesting idea, normally 5 fat is 1~2% better than 5 butcher. But thats only for normal attacks.
Btw some people are suggesting axe for 1h because counter attack is no-crit and no-proc so you want pure adb, but I dont believe it is faster than rapier (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

But comparing every way ain't cheap, is it?
Let them have fun even though they're wrong i'd say. It's a game anyway.

I'm back using haste again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

without haste , my clear time in PFU SG is increase since my style is very depend on imperil & without haste I need double cast imperil (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Butcher increases 'attack base damage', which affects ALL attack.
- normal attack, strike, counter attack.

But Fatality boosts a critical damage only.
- it doesn't affect Void/Elemental strike and counter attack.

Right, I totally forgot that (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

CODE

dmg mult    crit chance    crit dmg    output+(1.5*dm)    
1             0.6        1.84        3.004            a/b
1.01917603    0.6        1.74        3.000454232    1.001181744

using my gear 5 fat is just 0.1% better than 5 but, so actually 5 butcher is better. But whatever I am not iwing my rapier anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Actually its even worse, in the negative, because my crit chance is just a made up number.

This post has been edited by Void Domain: Dec 20 2015, 12:59

How important is VV?

How important is VV?

Essential for mages. Not that important for melee, though it's so cheap you might as well get it.

Butcher increases 'attack base damage', which affects ALL attack.
- normal attack, strike, counter attack.

But Fatality boosts a critical damage only.
- it doesn't affect Void/Elemental strike and counter attack.

Butcher increases the attack of the weapon only, while the fatality bonus makes use of the whole attack of the character. The weapon accounts for a relatively small % of the overall attack damage if you are using Power. Overall, fatality tends to be better IMHO.

I don't actually know which is best though, maybe they are pretty close.

Essential for mages. Not that important for melee, though it's so cheap you might as well get it.

Hmm...trying to decide on getting it now, or just waiting. I'll be broke again if I do, so should I focus on getting some decent power armor first? I'm thinking about doing the latter? What do you guys think?

Hmm...trying to decide on getting it now, or just waiting. I'll be broke again if I do, so should I focus on getting some decent power armor first? I'm thinking about doing the latter? What do you guys think?

Yeah, you should find some good power armor first. If survivability is a problem you can always use a plate piece in one of the slots instead.

Hmm...trying to decide on getting it now, or just waiting. I'll be broke again if I do, so should I focus on getting some decent power armor first? I'm thinking about doing the latter? What do you guys think?

Do you need more funds to get together an effective mage set? The answer is probably yes. You also very likely need to get to a higher level (for more damage, more toughness, and cheaper equipment). So if you already have a decent melee set, if I were you I'd just focus that, at least until level 340 or so. But if you're going to upgrade, don't spend more than ~300k on each equip if you're planning on switching styles.

Butcher increases the attack of the weapon only, while the fatality bonus makes use of the whole attack of the character. The weapon accounts for a relatively small % of the overall attack damage if you are using Power. Overall, fatality tends to be better IMHO.

I don't actually know which is best though, maybe they are pretty close.

Well, as I said before, Butcher increases the damage of all attack type, but Fatality doesn't.

And crits chance is not 100%. It means that Fatality's effeciency is not such a huge.

Do you need more funds to get together an effective mage set? The answer is probably yes. You also very likely need to get to a higher level (for more damage, more toughness, and cheaper equipment). So if you already have a decent melee set, if I were you I'd just focus that, at least until level 340 or so. But if you're going to upgrade, don't spend more than ~300k on each equip if you're planning on switching styles.

I was thinking about swapping to power armor from my shade armor actually...wasn't really thinking about maging. I'm just kinda stuck on what I should focus on next.

I was thinking about swapping to power armor from my shade armor actually...wasn't really thinking about maging. I'm just kinda stuck on what I should focus on next.

well , shade is cheaper compare to power slaughter (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

even leg SD with normal prefix (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)


just don't go after leg savage SD , you will face stony or mantra (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Btw some people are suggesting axe for 1h because counter attack is no-crit and no-proc so you want pure adb, but I dont believe it is faster than rapier (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

You have better counter attacks but you lose the parry from rapier, so less counter attacks, less OC gain and more damage taken.
It may be close (but rapier will be always better on SG or if you don't have enough defence).

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Dec 20 2015, 14:27

well , shade is cheaper compare to power slaughter (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

even leg SD with normal prefix (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
just don't go after leg savage SD , you will face stony or mantra (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Yeah, I'm well aware (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)

Still, finding gear my level is hard so I guess I'm trying to figure out how much better is Power (non-Slaughter) than Shade?

You have better counter attacks but you lose the parry from rapier, so less counter attacks, less OC gain and more damage taken.
It may be close (but rapier will be always better on SG or if you don't have enough defence).

Dont think its a problem, its very easy to cap the 3 counter max per turn. You just loss some defense.

Yea, and I think some freeshop scammer are banned?

probably. but i cannot afford to check all FS history just to check it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
however varst was somehow thrown inside the project as well, so most likely he already has a bunch of the infos the account has as well

I hope you include bleed to your damage/action (me, 5/6AD, double it with stance, multiply it with number of mobs, but get divided by action speed). Bleeders soon or later will realize that it's not effective to rely on attack alone, & they raise the AD just to feed the bleed anyway.
My point is go for butcher especially katana, throw fat to wakizashi.

Thats an interesting idea, normally 5 fat is 1~2% better than 5 butcher. But thats only for normal attacks.
Btw some people are suggesting axe for 1h because counter attack is no-crit and no-proc so you want pure adb, but I dont believe it is faster than rapier (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Butcher increases 'attack base damage', which affects ALL attack.
- normal attack, strike, counter attack.

But Fatality boosts a critical damage only.
- it doesn't affect Void/Elemental strike and counter attack.

But comparing every way ain't cheap, is it?
Let them have fun even though they're wrong i'd say. It's a game anyway.

Right, I totally forgot that (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

CODE

dmg mult    crit chance    crit dmg    output+(1.5*dm)    
1             0.6        1.84        3.004            a/b
1.01917603    0.6        1.74        3.000454232    1.001181744

using my gear 5 fat is just 0.1% better than 5 but, so actually 5 butcher is better. But whatever I am not iwing my rapier anymore (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Actually its even worse, in the negative, because my crit chance is just a made up number.

a series of other comments

well, i didn't check all these things, tbh. i did way simpler math (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

personally i agree with Dan, they indeed should be pretty close but i tend to prefer Fatality because it seems to affect the whole build, while Butcher is for a weapon only - and for someone who won't forge his gears so much, But5 is somehow limited to 150ADB to base damage or so. what's left is to know how much Fat5 will add.

also, all the subsequent hits like Offhand Strike, Void Strike, Elemental Strike, blah blah are a bit casual, so to cut the story short we should check on-battle the efficiency of the same build with the same weapon (or as close as possible), once IWed with But5 and once with Fat5

But comparing every way ain't cheap, is it?
Let them have fun even though they're wrong i'd say. It's a game anyway.

obviously. and afterall, what's wrong and what's right in a measly 1~2% difference? that's more of a dilemma for hardcore players (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Dont think its a problem, its very easy to cap the 3 counter max per turn. You just loss some defense.

yep. but apart for the surplus defense counters are granted also on Parry. so, even if Block is the same you may want to raise Parry as much as possible.

well, i didn't check all these things, tbh. i did way simpler math (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

personally i agree with Dan, they indeed should be pretty close but i tend to prefer Fatality because it seems to affect the whole build, while Butcher is for a weapon only - and for someone who won't forge his gears so much, But5 is somehow limited to 150ADB to base damage or so. what's left is to know how much Fat5 will add.

also, all the subsequent hits like Offhand Strike, Void Strike, Elemental Strike, blah blah are a bit casual, so to cut the story short we should check on-battle the efficiency of the same build with the same weapon (or as close as possible), once IWed with But5 and once with Fat5

Affect whole build or weapon only? Its just an illusion, you affect your character stat thats all.
All I did was to find out butcher 5 give me 2% more dmg, then plug in the numbers and compare vs 5 fat, including ele strike this time.

Affect whole build or weapon only? Its just an illusion, you affect your character stat thats all.
All I did was to find out butcher 5 give me 2% more dmg, then plug in the numbers and compare vs 5 fat, including ele strike this time.

and all i did was to check the effect of But5 and Fat5 in this formula, which gives you the weighted average damage while in battle:

CODE

DMG = ADB * [ 1 + crit_chance * crit_dmg_modifier ]

and it gives me the opposite result (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Dont think its a problem, its very easy to cap the 3 counter max per turn. You just loss some defense.

Depends on what scenario are we considering.
First page arenas or first rounds of arena it's not easy to max the counters.
On IW or Fest I would gladly take the extra parry (at least on PFUDOR).
REs... they finish after OFC so it probably doesn't make that much difference.

Probably should be tested, but I doubt it's really a whole lot faster.