[X] My Assistant

1. It depends on playstyle. If we play with imperil, then our main goal to get close to 75 mitg reduction. Elemental has 40 debuff, so something like 0,7 prof factor is enough (good staff prof + perk + 1 cloth). Holy/dark has only 25 debuff, so its good idea to use 3+2 for full prof factor even with imperil. Without imperil its always 3+2 for full prof.
2. Any edb to counter exchange without mitg reduction is bad. Our counter gives increase, but its not so good. I mean if we have 360 edb and lose 60 then its 4,6/4=15%. Very big and 15% counter-resist cant completely compensate that. But if its overall counter-resist in staff, than it might be not so bad idea, because it also reduces imperil turns. Small example.

115k damage with low resist (55%) - 100k damage with higher resist (70%) against 25% resist (rare monster even on pf, because its huge resist training and not many doing it)
115k 70% - 100k 79%
57,5k 27% - 50k 19%
28,75k 3% - 25k 2%
You can see no reduction is more common, but its only 100k. In other words 115k*0,7 = 80,4k and 100k*0,79 = 79k and its lower. But also main monsters on pf is someone with 14% and here difference is much bigger. Also full power can be better, because with forge we get high damage. If monster have 150k hp and our blast hits 300k+ than even 50% resist means oneshot. Counter-resist here is almost completely useless. So its bad if we speak about 4+1 to 3+2 exchange. But to get high counter-resist and specially on pf is good idea. Its just other way, for example, pen in staff or willow instead redwood.
3. Right. Overdamage isnt something we rly want. On high lvl and specially with good forge like 30/60+ its quite common, so counter-resist way is very nice. Range is lower, but average damage still high and more stable. But high damage isnt only overdamage. Even if monster have only 5% resist then it means almost 15% attacks when we get 50% or more damage reduction. And in that cases higher damage has higher chance to kill faster. I mean even if monster has 30k and our T1 hits 60k+.

So, overall its quite complicated, but to keep 2 direction is easy:
1. Phase to cloth for only counter-resist it bad.
2. Get counter-resist for lower price is good. For example, 5 pen instead 5 archmage.

I thought monster's average resist would be around 40 50%, considering their mitigation is around that range O xO So getting more counter resist is recommended, but getting counter resist from prof suffix isn't worth the elemental damage

Another question (again) please :3 Do you think the frugal/charged/mystic/radiant prefixes worth their price :3 ? Are they good enough to trade with lower tier elemental damage ?

not perfect but still good parry ^^ you just need a good eye for things (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

now i need to open my eyes even further to find a Katana before i can try out the Waki ;p
4 9 Unlocked innate potential: Fatality Level 4 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) I guess the Strike will be the worst with that luck

That Legendary Ethereal Katana of Slaughter in last weeks Wannaf auction was nice, but 3.1M? Way out of my price range. I Would have paid 300k for the other one even though the WD is lower, but level 471 is just too high. That auction shows pretty well how level makes a huge difference in the prices of items. I'm waiting to finish my Wakizashi IW before trying out mine, then I need to grind DW and 2H proficiency for a good while before I can try out Niten. I'm looking for a Katana too, I have this one that was kindly gifted to me in my low levels by ShatteredWings. It was great help back then, but it's pre 0.82 and not Ethereal, so I might buy another one if I see one. By the way, I used 0 Amnesias for the IW of that Katana.

I thought monster's average resist would be around 40 50%, considering their mitigation is around that range O xO So getting more counter resist is recommended, but getting counter resist from prof suffix isn't worth the elemental damage

Another question (again) please :3 Do you think the frugal/charged/mystic/radiant prefixes worth their price :3 ? Are they good enough to trade with lower tier elemental damage ?

Resist is very different from mitigation. Elemental mitigation for high PL monsters is usually ~60-70 or so, depending on monster crystal upgrades, and spell resist is based on monster Wis and chaos upgrades (and Resists are much less frequent than 50%).

Radiant is great, for the same tier (eg Magnificent), a low-EDB Radiant Mag will outperform a high-EDB non-Radiant Mag. Mystic provides more damage as well, but to a lesser extent (and only affects monsters already getting critically hit, when you'd generally care more about doing more damage only to the monsters with the most HP remaining). I wouldn't pay much more for Mystic myself.

With low forging and gear, Frugal is good with Holy/Dark. With high forging or with Elemental, the reduced number of mana potions used just won't be significant enough to be worth worrying much about, especially if you happen to have Eco on staff.

Charged provides a substantial increase in defense - very solid. For players who aren't level 400 yet, it'll probably help a lot for giving them the edge to play on PF without worries. It also lets you go deeper into GF before having to flee, but there's no point in GF for most. (My recent post looking at Charged: here)

Sure, the useful prefixes do generally provide a pretty nice bonus, but they're usually pretty pricey. If you're just starting, you'll probably be more worried about just plain finding decent quality Phase near your level in the first place.

I'd been wanting to figure this out for a while, but I think I finally got it.

Question: Ether tap, or don't ether tap?

Answer: Most likely, never, not even if the monster is at <1000 HP, if you're a decently leveled, decently equipped mage. Best case, two stacks restore 20% of base mana over Tap's full duration.

IF you're lucky enough to get 2 monsters in a row with HP under the Arcane Blow threshold, and Tap both, you lose at least one turn of Ether Tap or more, depending on how many turns Tap has left, regardless of current Tap stacks. Best base mana gained per Arcane Blow: you Tap at 0 turns left with 2 stacks: you gain 16% of base mana in exchange for one turn of attacking (not 20%).

Mana Potion: +75% base mana (Cost: 90 credits)

Tap profit, best case: 16% base mana recovery vs 75% of a mana potion; 21% of a mana potion; 0.21 * 90 = 19 credits per successful tap (if you keep 2 Tap stacks up at all times and successfully re-Tap at 0 turns left)
Tap profit, average case:
25%+ parry decreases the chances of a successful tap (fewer credits per attack attempt turns), and the uncertainty of parry also means you can't count on increasing or refreshing the existing stack (less base mana recovered average).
Counting parry uncertainty, the base recovery per successful tap might be 13% of base mana; 17% of a mana potion; 0.17 * 90 = 15.6 credits per successful tap; 15.6 * .75 after parry = 11.7 credits per tap attempt
Also, getting two monsters in a row with HP low enough for Arcane Blow is uncommon. Most of the time, you'll only manage one stack before it expires: base recovery per successful tap is likely closer to 11% of base mana, which comes out to 10 credits per tap attempt. (+10 credits per turn)

(Some of these numbers are just guesstimates, but they're in the ballpark, which is all the conclusion relies on)

Also, attacking means using a different command than what you normally use to cast offensive spells; you can't just keep hovering or pressing keyboard-number with Spellspam, you have to stop that for a moment and use an Attack keybind, decreasing profit per time significantly.

Ordinary profit-per-turn is significantly higher. Though it somewhat depends on whether you use energy drinks, on how well equipped you are, and on how much training you've done, it should be higher than 15 credits/turn, and is likely much higher, 35+ credits/turn on non-SG arenas, could get up to 50 credits/turn without any EDs, and at least 15 credits/turn even on crappy Grindfest.

Conclusion: If you're a decently leveled, decently equipped mage (which you should be if you're maging in the first place), never Tap.

Tapping could be profitable for low-level (<300) players on low difficulty with low income, if they're not playing arenas, since their opportunity cost for a turn is significantly lower.

Credits/turn source:



(this is from doing the non-SG arenas on page 2 only, plus a couple REs. Stats are not out of the ordinary at all.)

1. It depends on playstyle. If we play with imperil, then our main goal to get close to 75 mitg reduction. Elemental has 40 debuff, so something like 0,7 prof factor is enough (good staff prof + perk + 1 cloth). Holy/dark has only 25 debuff, so its good idea to use 3+2 for full prof factor even with imperil. Without imperil its always 3+2 for full prof.
2. Any edb to counter exchange without mitg reduction is bad. Our counter gives increase, but its not so good. I mean if we have 360 edb and lose 60 then its 4,6/4=15%. Very big and 15% counter-resist cant completely compensate that. But if its overall counter-resist in staff, than it might be not so bad idea, because it also reduces imperil turns. Small example.

115k damage with low resist (55%) - 100k damage with higher resist (70%) against 25% resist (rare monster even on pf, because its huge resist training and not many doing it)
115k 70% - 100k 79%
57,5k 27% - 50k 19%
28,75k 3% - 25k 2%
You can see no reduction is more common, but its only 100k. In other words 115k*0,7 = 80,4k and 100k*0,79 = 79k and its lower. But also main monsters on pf is someone with 14% and here difference is much bigger. Also full power can be better, because with forge we get high damage. If monster have 150k hp and our blast hits 300k+ than even 50% resist means oneshot. Counter-resist here is almost completely useless. So its bad if we speak about 4+1 to 3+2 exchange. But to get high counter-resist and specially on pf is good idea. Its just other way, for example, pen in staff or willow instead redwood.
3. Right. Overdamage isnt something we rly want. On high lvl and specially with good forge like 30/60+ its quite common, so counter-resist way is very nice. Range is lower, but average damage still high and more stable. But high damage isnt only overdamage. Even if monster have only 5% resist then it means almost 15% attacks when we get 50% or more damage reduction. And in that cases higher damage has higher chance to kill faster. I mean even if monster has 30k and our T1 hits 60k+.

So, overall its quite complicated, but to keep 2 direction is easy:
1. Phase to cloth for only counter-resist it bad.
2. Get counter-resist for lower price is good. For example, 5 pen instead 5 archmage.

I dont get what you are saying, prof also give mitg reduction right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Just get 4+1 in robe, or 3+2 for no imp should be optimial.

I dont get what you are saying, prof also give mitg reduction right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Just get 4+1 in robe, or 3+2 for no imp should be optimial.

I think part of it is that mitigation reduction past a certain point has significant diminishing returns, and eventually almost no returns at all. If Imperil reduces mitigation by 40, then only 35 mitigation reduction from proficiency (1.7 prof factor) is needed to get to 75 mitigation reduction total. But only the schoolgirls have 75 mitigation, and only a couple of the RoB monsters have more. Most monsters we encounter have no more than 70 mitigation, usually 60-70 (so most mitigation reduction past 30 is wasted, unless the player plays a whole lot of high difficulty SG arenas).

4+1 robe with high forging plus perk will give you much more than 1.7 prof factor, so if you're going to forge that much, I think the implication is that it's better to go with a worse slot like gloves or cap (just enough to get to ~1.7) so that the full benefit of robe stats can be utilized (for EDB).

But if you're not going to forge a lot then it likely doesn't matter, because there won't be any "wasted" extra proficiency regardless of what slot is used.

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=8a62796d88
Level 159 Magnificent Power Gauntlets of Protection with 3 PAB in Bazaar

Sure, the useful prefixes do generally provide a pretty nice bonus, but they're usually pretty pricey. If you're just starting, you'll probably be more worried about just plain finding decent quality Phase near your level in the first place.

I found some of them, but it's unlikely there will be more in the market soon so I just wanna make sure before going all in O 3O
Just hope I won't overslept tomorrow morning Q xQ It's already 3am for me >"<

I dont get what you are saying, prof also give mitg reduction right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Just get 4+1 in robe, or 3+2 for no imp should be optimial.

You mean 2nd part?
As I said any mage with imperil should aim at 75 mitg reduction with imperil. Thats something like 0,79 prof factor. If we speak only about damage, then its already if player have 0,7 then replacement slot d give same result against ordinary monsters. Hands to robe easily -15edb. High pl monster with high resist appears often, but even against him we lose magic score and also lose against all others. So its usually equal or very similar result. But prof also gives side effects like casting speed/mana price. So to use robe with high forge for ~0,8 factor is good. But if we have even 0,7 and think "ok, i ll get a bit mitg reduction and counter-resist, so why not use 3+2" then its completely wrong. Even with little mitg reduction that was more or less equal, but after 0,8 its only counter-resist. At the end player gets lower t/round.

Im not sure, but perfect for imperil elemental d be robe, because side effects. But if we speak about real situation then any slot is ok, because result is same. I mean its not easy to get perfect gear. Even more or less random set is 2-4 weeks at least in aucs. Something like close to Pmax robe is quite rare. Or when player already has forged cloth. My first set was 3+2, so i just replaced 1 to phase. And there is no sense to buy/soulfuse/forge/iw again just for side effects. Much easier to spend that amount on something else.

Higher arenas have their own bonus.

I thought that bonus was only applicable to the Arena Clear Bonus. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I'd been wanting to figure this out for a while, but I think I finally got it.
-snip-

Sometimes I wonder if HV is really just a game or not. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I think part of it is that mitigation reduction past a certain point has significant diminishing returns, and eventually almost no returns at all. If Imperil reduces mitigation by 40, then only 35 mitigation reduction from proficiency (1.7 prof factor) is needed to get to 75 mitigation reduction total. But only the schoolgirls have 75 mitigation, and only a couple of the RoB monsters have more. Most monsters we encounter have no more than 70 mitigation, usually 60-70 (so most mitigation reduction past 30 is wasted, unless the player plays a whole lot of high difficulty SG arenas).

4+1 robe with high forging plus perk will give you much more than 1.7 prof factor, so if you're going to forge that much, I think the implication is that it's better to go with a worse slot like gloves or cap (just enough to get to ~1.7) so that the full benefit of robe stats can be utilized (for EDB).

Spot on! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sometimes I wonder if HV is really just a game or not. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I think its more something like perfectionism. Thats what many of us doing in hv for slight stat increase (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think its more something like perfectionism. Thats what many of us doing in hv for slight stat increase (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

True. And we can't neglect the fact that we have learned/improved some good RL skills while playing it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think its more something like perfectionism. Thats what many of us doing in hv for slight stat increase (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's why I went on hiatus. The self imposed expectations were starting to get to me.

That's why I went on hiatus. The self imposed expectations were starting to get to me.

It's all Tenboro's fault. KIDNAP HIM! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

featherweigh is cheap since each effect is 1 hour

infusion is more expensive 15 minutes/item

Or like 1 minute an infusion if you are a mage...

Another detour. - it's the continuation after this adventure using DW.

TL;DR : 2H is shit.

>Grinding 2H proficiency to try niten later
>There's no problem playing in iwbth in earlier proficiency compared to when using DW - maybe because the light armor is already maxed.
>reaching 330+ proficiency 2h and full light proficiency yet I can't even finish arena PF.

And no, not even in thinking mode, at some point when the round reach a series of 7 or more monsters/round, there will be not enough mana to cure, even after using mana potion. I think occasional use of mana elixir or last elixir might solve this, but 7 monsters/round is like the last 10 round of longest journey (the first arena in 2nd page), using elixirs would be a waste there :/

The setup :
Using same armors like what I used on the DW setup, weapon is a Leg Estoc of Balance with 3butcher/5ss/1fatality.
I know that's not an ideal weapon to be used for pf since we need overpower, but it's not a clearing speed that stop me it's survivability - but of course we could debate on glass canon philosophy.

Even with lower ADB, the damage to single monster in general isn't that much different than DW, but the overall is a bit higher due to domino strike, netting a bit faster clearing time in expense of much more cure. But I might reach more faster clearing speed if using slaughter and with better IW instead of that whatever estoc I have there.


conclusion :
2h is actually a nice build, but it needs extra care in defense.
More upgrade (or better equipment) are needed compared to dw or 1h because of lack of defense bonus (no block from shield and no parry bonus from off hand really hurt - parry bonus from 2h ability doesn't help much). Looking at the character stats and comparing it to my stats when using 1h/dw clearly shows this problem.

I put "2h is shit" in tl;dr because comparing it with 1h/dw, 2h clearly need more money investment to play compared to them but without decent returns in clearing speed.
Better clearing speed in expense of lower survivablity is what I expect from 2h, and I got exactly what I expecting for but with different degree of expense and reward.
If I'm going to spend extra money for it, I think it's better to invest it on maging instead - but that might change later after I actually try maging.

and here is the stats.


Those are the same equip - the "anything I could scrap from my inventory" and "all of them are without upgrade/IW at all" - as my DW equip.

stats for my 1h and dw setup are here.

This is part of "What could I do with minimum budget and pure drops in HV" series - next episode : after reaching max proficiency in 2H = Niten.

Cool story, The problem of all melee style other than 1h is no OC or no OFC (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Non-ethereal 2h weapon? That's the main problem.

True. And we can't neglect the fact that we have learned/improved some good RL skills while playing it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

+1

Cool story, The problem of all melee style other than 1h is no OC or no OFC (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I don't even have OFC, I mean, it's expensive.
and it's true that OC is a bit a drag but I don't really mind about it, even in dw the difference with 1h is the extra chore to activate it every a 2-3 round.

Non-ethereal 2h weapon? That's the main problem.

In what part ethereal is better than non-ethereal except in no burden/interference and possibility of darkness/holy strike?
or am I underestimate the difference that come from 9 more burd....
oh you're right...
now where's my ethereal estoc...

This post has been edited by Fudo Masamune: Nov 28 2015, 13:00