[X] My Assistant

Ive been wondering for a while, does it really matter which Elemental Strike you have on your weapon, ecxept on SG arenas? what i noticed that its maybe 1000~ dmg difficult between dark/holy and the others, doesnt sound much but its still a lot in the long turn.
or are there any long wide stats that someone went thru to check this?

also, what Potencies should i give a Waki for Niten . Overpower and Fatility?

On SG arenas, it makes a huge difference. I remember that my Leg Ethereal Slaughter at a higher level with Fire/Void Strike was clearing at a noticably slower rate than my Leg Demonic Nimble with Demonic/Void Strike.

1000 damage difference? Do you know how many tens of millions people pay to get that much improvement from forge? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

OP and Fatality sound good. Butcher's bad for waki, and SS is less useful than the rest.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Nov 24 2015, 07:23

On SG arenas, it makes a huge difference. I remember that my Leg Ethereal Slaughter at a higher level with Fire/Void Strike was clearing at a noticably slower rate than my Leg Demonic Nimble with Demonic/Void Strike.

1000 damage difference? Do you know how many tens of millions people pay to get that much improvement from forge? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

OP and Fatality sound good. Butcher's bad for waki, and SS is less useful than the rest.

So.. Magnificent Hallowed Rapier of Slaughter > Legendary Arctic Rapier of Slaughter in SG arena?
What if i use maxed imperil while using the artic one in SG arena, would that be competitive enough in terms of clear speed with the hallowed one?


This post has been edited by izpekopon: Nov 24 2015, 07:42

So.. Magnificent Hallowed Rapier of Slaughter > Legendary Arctic Rapier of Slaughter in SG arena?

Very likely yes, but that's only an issue worth seriously considering if you play SG arenas on high difficulty. On normal/hard, it's not time consuming anyway, so the difference between 10 minutes and 10.3 minutes would barely be worth the time it takes to switch equipment.

My stats on PF DwD were: 45 +-1 minutes with Ethereal Slaughter (+ Fire) (L430), 42 +-1 minutes with Demonic Nimble (L402) from ~6 samples each.

Your stats aren't bad, you can keep them like this.
Your gears however, must be changed asap. DW shortsword is pretty bad.
Generally speaking, the best combinations are axe+rapier for damage or club+rapier for safety.

You should also switch to light armor (shade) if you plan to continue with dual wielding.

If you want to play at higher difficulties, you'll have to change to 1h+power though...

Boulay, thank you for the tips. I knew my equipment was bad, but it's so hard to get good stuff. Actually, I'm pretty sure my current equipment was donated to me by someone many levels ago.

Very likely yes, but that's only an issue worth seriously considering if you play SG arenas on high difficulty. On normal/hard, it's not time consuming anyway, so the difference between 10 minutes and 10.3 minutes would barely be worth the time it takes to switch equipment.

My stats on PF DwD were: 45 +-1 minutes with Ethereal Slaughter (+ Fire) (L430), 42 +-1 minutes with Demonic Nimble (L402) from ~6 samples each.

So there's only a slight difference in the clear speed, not too crazy difference right?
So the only added benefit for holy/dark strike is a slightly faster clear time and less dmg taken for the later rounds (due to taking less turns to advance) for the SG arenas?
Am i right?

you need around 100~200 ADB to get that +1000 damage , I think ( maybe ) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


@izpekopon

yes , you need to spams imperil alot in SG if you using elemental strike ( like my rapier ) ~ cold strike too like your artic (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

my best time for PFU DwD is 37 min with 230~240ms (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


@super

that quite fast , 4t/s (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by nobody_xxx: Nov 24 2015, 07:51

so you say the elements are equal on anything but Schoolgirls? so when i IW a ethereal weapon it doesnt matter what appears at the end? maybe as long as it isnt cold (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

so you say the elements are equal on anything but Schoolgirls? so when i IW a ethereal weapon it doesnt matter what appears at the end? maybe as long as it isnt cold (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

err , cold is better than fire or elec for me (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

just below wind ( not that much different if you spams imperil in SG ) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

So there's only a slight difference in the clear speed, not too crazy difference right?
So the only added benefit for holy/dark strike is a slightly faster clear time and less dmg taken for the later rounds (due to taking less turns to advance) for the SG arenas?
Am i right?

The difference is there. For PF or IWBTH, +6-7% clear speed is huge IMO. (quoting earlier, that's the sort of thing people pay tens of millions in forging for) Although damage taken is decreased some due to quicker dead monsters, I didn't consider it at all because I never Cured anyway. On PF or IWBTH they'll be SP attacking you regardless.

The solution: don't play SG arenas at all except on Normal or Hard. That's what I'd say anyway regardless of equipment, at least before level 400 ~ + heavy forging. They take too long, and gambling on the Magnificent clear bonus will give you junk 19 times out of 20. Better to get guaranteed income from ordinary arenas and trophies.

yes , you need to spams imperil alot in SG if you using elemental strike ( like my rapier ) ~ cold strike too like your artic (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Imperil would probably make Holy/Dark have somewhat more similar results to elemental on schoolgirls, but Imperiling takes too much attention for me if I'm going with 1h. SG mitigation would go from 75 -> 35 for elemental, compared to its -1 base for holy/dark.

so you say the elements are equal on anything but Schoolgirls? so when i IW a ethereal weapon it doesnt matter what appears at the end? maybe as long as it isnt cold (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I don't think so. Monsters in general are also weaker to Holy and Dark than elemental - it's just that the difference is extremely pronounced on the schoolgirls, where the difference is 75 mitigation vs -1 mitigation (ordinary monsters: the difference is often something like ~65 mitigation vs ~50 mitigation).

Its more like you lose 50% dmg, because mage damage is mdb*edb, but melee is just adb+adb.

Wow, you're right. i calculated my magic score if I switched out my staff for a Leg Demonic Rapier of Nimble, and my magic score went down by 50%.

That's also excluding other benefits from the staff, ie. elemental and deprecating proficiency, counter-resist, magic item world potencies, magic PABs...

I don't think this build works well in comparison with a pure mage build. But, it might work for someone transitioning from melee to mage. And maybe the key question is - is it faster than melee and still "safe enough"?

The solution: don't play SG arenas at all except on Normal or Hard. That's what I'd say anyway regardless of equipment, at least before level 400 ~ + heavy forging. They take too long, and gambling on the Magnificent clear bonus will give you junk 19 times out of 20. Better to get guaranteed income from ordinary arenas and trophies.

ic. i only do DwD on PFU, takes me ~2hr. The main reason why i do it on PFU is for the guaranteed mag equipment and tons of exp. The other 2 SG arenas, without any guaranteed decent drops, i just do them on hard/hell.

[Edit]
Thinking about what u said, i'l stick to doing low difficulty SG arenas and try PFU only after im semi-forged and can keep clear time to at least below 1hr half.


This post has been edited by izpekopon: Nov 24 2015, 08:12

and tons of exp

I thought this at first too, since 3x is such a big multiplier, but I was wrong, for similar reasons to why the 110 round arena x 2.2xp and 125 round x 2.5xp actually give less XP per round than the standard high level arenas. The number of monsters per round is pretty similar to the standard arenas, maybe a bit lower. But the schoolgirls give very little XP - in addition to taking 5x as long as the ordinary monsters. I'm sure the XP/time is higher in PF Grindfest.

Edit: Example: I just did PF FSM, with FSM and 3 SGs. 451,534 EXP. 3 random normal monsters in PF GF gave 1,925,703 EXP. The built-in HV monsters are horrendous for XP. I think it was because they were designed when 10b didn't think there would be many monsters over PL 1000, let alone PL 2000.

But there's also stamina. If you're limiting yourself to what you can do with your stamina daily without using EDs, it's true that DwD gives the most XP per stamina used - it just takes ages.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Nov 24 2015, 08:26

Its more like you lose 50% dmg, because mage damage is mdb*edb, but melee is just adb+adb.

How did you figure out the number 50%? It's quite accurate I have to say.

I don't think this build works well in comparison with a pure mage build.

That works unexpectedly good. Significant higher turns, but also significant higher t/s, because play becomes much easier. 500 pffest rounds instead 650-700 per hour isnt very bad. Pffest in 2 hours for melee with quite cheap phase set is something very decent. Its not collecting and forging 10k+ adb with damage perks. Maybe i ll even use it something when lazy to cure.

How did you figure out the number 50%? It's quite accurate I have to say.

It was just a guess, because I see no way its only 30% loss (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
The staff alone with forge is like 40% of your mdb, and then you lose pab and edb also.
And you lose the staff iw, but CR wont show in magic score right?

I thought this at first too, since 3x is such a big multiplier, but I was wrong, for similar reasons to why the 110 round arena x 2.2xp and 125 round x 2.5xp actually give less XP per round than the standard high level arenas. The number of monsters per round is pretty similar to the standard arenas, maybe a bit lower. But the schoolgirls give very little XP - in addition to taking 5x as long as the ordinary monsters. I'm sure the XP/time is higher in PF Grindfest.

Edit: Example: I just did PF FSM, with FSM and 3 SGs. 451,534 EXP. 3 random normal monsters in PF GF gave 1,925,703 EXP. The built-in HV monsters are horrendous for XP. I think it was because they were designed when 10b didn't think there would be many monsters over PL 1000, let alone PL 2000.

But there's also stamina. If you're limiting yourself to what you can do with your stamina daily without using EDs, it's true that DwD gives the most XP per stamina used - it just takes ages.

I do SG arenas without the SGs, ie I fight until I meet the first one and then flee. It does consume more stamina per exp, but I don't play that much anyway, so it doesn't matter.

a bit detour.

What is the story for Niten in today's high level?

Lower survivability + higher damage output than 1h & higher survivability + lower damage output than mage?

After seeing that DW is as brainless as 1h, and it seems 2H isn't that good (just grinding to 250 proficiency from 20-30) I'm starting to question niten efficiency.

a bit detour.

What is the story for Niten in today's high level?

Lower survivability + higher damage output than 1h & higher survivability + lower damage output than mage?

After seeing that DW is as brainless as 1h, and it seems 2H isn't that good (just grinding to 250 proficiency from 20-30) I'm starting to question niten efficiency.

Niten, like 2h, is poor man's mage, though Niten has more defense and less damage than 2h.

It's not a bad choice if you only want to play low difficulty, though if it was me and I had to play melee, I'd use 2h instead - except in SG arenas, where Niten is probably better (more damage to individual schoolgirl, and smaller Domino Strike doesn't matter).

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Nov 24 2015, 10:13

Niten, like 2h, is poor man's mage, though Niten has more defense and less damage than 2h.

It's not a bad choice if you only want to play low difficulty, though if it was me and I had to play melee, I'd use 2h instead - except in SG arenas, where Niten is probably better (more damage to individual schoolgirl, and smaller Domino Strike doesn't matter).

how about the loss of penetrated armor?

trying 2h between katana of slaughter vs estoc of balance, while the katana gives higher edb, the estoc gives better damage overall with PA.

how about the loss of penetrated armor?

trying 2h between katana of slaughter vs estoc of balance, while the katana gives higher edb, the estoc gives better damage overall with PA.

Ah, you're right, I forgot about estoc. Even if normal monsters only die in a hit or two the SGs still take a few, so PA is definitely better than the slightly increased Niten damage.