[X] My Assistant

No, the max gain you can have is +66.87%. You are confusing equipment roll bonus with forging.

As said, I did not doubt max gain / +66.87%. I asked for your reasoning denying a 100% gain on multiplying with leg QL . Which is the statement you still reject, don't you?

So, my rapier here have 25.54 base damage.
If I upgrade it's physical damage to lv 5, It's base damage is: 25.54 * 1.1131 = 28.43
Is it right ? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yes.

As said, I did not doubt max gain / +66.87%. I asked for your reasoning denying a 100% gain on multiplying with leg QL . Which is the statement you still reject, don't you?

The average stat bonus from high quality equipment doesn't have anything to do with it either. You just take the displayed base stat - without changing it or using any other multiplier for the heck of it - and put it in the equation.

As said, I did not doubt max gain / +66.87%. I asked for your reasoning denying a 100% gain on multiplying with leg QL . Which is the statement you still reject, don't you?

Because there is no point. This is your imaginary 100% gain, why not apply the chest piece 1.2 also? Then you have +140% gain over "normal" items

Where did these numbers come from: 64, 800 and 1300? And what's the range of player level you are referring to?

Im using old collected data which i did for monster lab. I rewrote quite many monsters pl, so should be more or less accurate. And range is probably same, because i checked normal and pf diff and it was completely same, so i think after some lvl players deal with same monsters/frequency. In future it can shifts a bit, because its only upward. Monsters dont lose pl and with cheap crystals ppl fed a bit. But its not something very common and mostly all doing same 1k monsters.

Because there is no point. This is your imaginary 100% gain, why not apply the chest piece 1.2 also? Then you have +140% gain over "normal" items

"Thus" spake Zarathustra "bring in the nerds!" What was true for HV0.81 was changed a bit, like a stat being

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * (round(base_roll * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier) * (1 + forge_factor)+ item_quality) * base_stat_multiplier)

For the actual calculation until we have a more accurate formula let us assume the rounding (deviation of rolls) has been changed in favor of the "you have legendary stats on legendary items" like a function roll(base_roll), resulting stats being approximated as

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor) * base_stat_multiplier)

You liked to look at base_seen on the item pop-up, sure. We cut out all level_scaling to approximate

base_seen = roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor)

Now talking about "gains" let us exchange the term "(1+forge_factor)" with the actual forge_multiplier (was declared as forge_factor - 1)

base_seen = roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * forge_multiplier

Looking on this you can derive any forge values on gear, evaluate gear for forging, construct a viable forge ranking of different slots with different qualities and if you care discuss the roll(base_roll) function.

Everything on the right side of the equation except for the roll(base_roll) can be decribed as "gains". Yes, I know slot_multipliers below 1 (hands, feet) are merely "losses", but let us go on.

So both our statements can be stated as "true". The forge_multiplier is indeed unaffected by slot or quality. My statement of "gains" of +100% at Legendary Quality and max_forge is "true", too.

So before we run to King Solomon to split the philosopher's baby, let's shake hands (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Frederiksc: Oct 3 2015, 14:10

Or one might just use the displayed base stat (or simulated/desired base stat) instead of introducing complications that make working things out much more of a pain.

Or one might just use the displayed base stat (or simulated/desired base stat) instead of introducing complications that make working things out much more of a pain.

For complicating things ask 10B. At least I offered a theory that has the ability to be falsified. And... As you seem to have chosen to throw your hat into the ring, what is the "displayed base stat" (which is base_seen in my wording) for you? This is no personal offence at all. I would really like to read your arguments, because they could help me improve theorycrafting on HV mechanics.

I have question want to ask: a mag force shield with base block 32.89 and a leg kit shield with base block 30.95, is it have much different about block frequency in battle ??
The force shield's base block only 1.94 bigger than the leg kit, I wonder if it makes much different or not ? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by -Daiki-: Oct 3 2015, 15:08

I have question want to ask: a mag force shield with base block 32.89 and a leg kit shield with base block 30.95, is it have much different about block frequency in battle ??
The force shield's base block only 1.94 bigger than the leg kit, I wonder if it makes much different or not ? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At your level, not really. The difference at your level is ~2.8% EHP*.

At a higher level, the level and forge scaling makes small differences much larger. For a similar difference would be a 10% EHP at my level.

It should be noted that kite shields reduce your damage slightly because of burden (we're talking small numbers here), and the extra interference from a force shield usually means nothing because of mana potions/droughts (you should be constantly chowing these down, and still be gaining them on average).


*EHP is Effective HP. For example, if you have 100 hp and 0% damage reduction you have 100 EHP, if you have 100 HP and 50% damage reduction, you have 200EHP.

can someone explain what this item makes the value so high? are gloves of that kind so rare? the base PAB#s dont even see at the max
Legendary Radiant Phase Gloves of Niflheim

can someone explain what this item makes the value so high? are gloves of that kind so rare? the base PAB#s dont even see at the max
Legendary Radiant Phase Gloves of Niflheim

Well, I am no mage. AFAIK the prefix Radiant makes them that desireable.

At your level, not really. The difference at your level is ~2.8% EHP*.

At a higher level, the level and forge scaling makes small differences much larger. For a similar difference would be a 10% EHP at my level.

It should be noted that kite shields reduce your damage slightly because of burden (we're talking small numbers here), and the extra interference from a force shield usually means nothing because of mana potions/droughts (you should be constantly chowing these down, and still be gaining them on average).
*EHP is Effective HP. For example, if you have 100 hp and 0% damage reduction you have 100 EHP, if you have 100 HP and 50% damage reduction, you have 200EHP.

I wonder how you calculate those number (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Is it experts's experience (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

can someone explain what this item makes the value so high? are gloves of that kind so rare? the base PAB#s dont even see at the max
Legendary Radiant Phase Gloves of Niflheim

Item Type: Phase is a used gear type, Radiant appears to be the best prefix, at a minimum it is one of the better ones (with the elemental resist ones being the crapper ones).

Rolls: EDB is the main roll, it has 15.15, which is higher than the old PMAX, all the PAB rolls are Legendary+ tier.

Gear Channeling: Pretend there is one stat on gear and it rolls 1-6. You would expect that a 6 is worth twice as much as a 5 (since it or better is twice as rare). This isn't the case since everyone wants the top roll, and less people want lower rolls. This pushes up the price many times, so something twice as rare, could be worth 10x as much.

I wonder how you calculate those number (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Is it experts's experience (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

With a 32.89% block shield, you have a 67.11 chance of getting hit, this means you have a 1.49 (=1/.6711) EHP multiplier.
With a 30.95% block shield, you have a 69.05 chance of getting hit, this means you have a 1.45 (=1/.6905) EHP multiplier.

Diving new by old: 1.49/1.45=1.028. ie. a 2.8% bonus in EHP.

My shield has 62.36% block at my level, a similar process shows the difference to be 10% bonus EHP.

I do want to add if you have never played MMO type games, 10% is a shit ton. Back when I was raiding, people were jizzing over 'small' bonuses like 10%. Your character gets strong when you get a ton of these small bonuses.

"Thus" spake Zarathustra "bring in the nerds!" What was true for HV0.81 was changed a bit, like a stat being

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * (round(base_roll * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier) * (1 + forge_factor)+ item_quality) * base_stat_multiplier)

For the actual calculation until we have a more accurate formula let us assume the rounding (deviation of rolls) has been changed in favor of the "you have legendary stats on legendary items" like a function roll(base_roll), resulting stats being approximated as

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor) * base_stat_multiplier)

You liked to look at base_seen on the item pop-up, sure. We cut out all level_scaling to approximate

base_seen = roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor)

Now talking about "gains" let us exchange the term "(1+forge_factor)" with the actual forge_multiplier (was declared as forge_factor - 1)

base_seen = roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * forge_multiplier

Looking on this you can derive any forge values on gear, evaluate gear for forging, construct a viable forge ranking of different slots with different qualities and if you care discuss the roll(base_roll) function.

Everything on the right side of the equation except for the roll(base_roll) can be decribed as "gains". Yes, I know slot_multipliers below 1 (hands, feet) are merely "losses", but let us go on.

So both our statements can be stated as "true". The forge_multiplier is indeed unaffected by slot or quality. My statement of "gains" of +100% at Legendary Quality and max_forge is "true", too.

So before we run to King Solomon to split the philosopher's baby, let's shake hands (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So you are talking about roll(base_roll). But I still think your forging 101 thread is misleading, base_seen is all we care, and the base_seen gain on 100 forge adb/mdb for chest piece is only 1.667 not 2 or 2.5 .

Also the new equipment gen is changed, you roll for a quality first (leg, mag...) and then the stat range from qmax to 0.85 qmax (qmax is just lmax, mmax), then I assume is apply the slot_mod? So now roll(base_roll) and quality_modifier may not exist, or they merge into one. Or maybe the system has a static range for every quality.

The difference comes from the fact that I judge the effectiveness of a slot based solely on its base prof. Higher base stat = better slot. Might be a biased way to compare slots, buy anyway.
When it comes base prof, robe > pants > cap > gloves > shoes
The numbers in wiki are currently outdated. The following are what I could find at the moment:
cap 8.29 http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=e3bba6a55f
robe 9.89 didn't keep the link
gloves 7.50 http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=ce56502e0e
pants 9.09 didn't keep the link
shoes 6.70 didn't keep the link
So, it's cap/gloves that has lower prof, not pants (legs).

I see. Guess I need to run some experiments with 4+1 (Pants).

For complicating things ask 10B. At least I offered a theory that has the ability to be falsified. And... As you seem to have chosen to throw your hat into the ring, what is the "displayed base stat" (which is base_seen in my wording) for you? This is no personal offence at all. I would really like to read your arguments, because they could help me improve theorycrafting on HV mechanics.

From your equation

CODE

(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor) * base_stat_multiplier)

The base stat would be equivalent to the quantity [roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier]. I'm not sure what you're defining base_stat_multiplier to be, but that might be included as well. Of course if someone wants to check the forged stat rather than just the base stat, then also multiply by (1 + forge_factor). Same as your "base_seen".

But for almost all cases, including this one, we already know the base stat (forged or not), and going into the components that make it up isn't really useful information.

It's like:

How much damage does Elemental Strike do?

and saying

(∑[(1 + (level / scaling_factor)) * roll(base_roll) * quality_modifier * slot_multiplier * (1 + forge_factor) * base_stat_multiplier)] + prof_bonus + stat_bonus) * (1 + hath_bonus) * (1 + crit_mod) * (1 + heartseeker_bonus) * (1 + spirit_stance_bonus)) * (defense_mit) [or something similar]

instead of

50% of your main attack's physical damage

:

base_seen is all we care

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Oct 3 2015, 15:58

I do want to add if you have never played MMO type games, 10% is a shit ton. Back when I was raiding, people were jizzing over 'small' bonuses like 10%. Your character gets strong when you get a ton of these small bonuses.

Excuse me, my English is bad, so I want to ask (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) what does "jizzing over" mean, I can't find it in my dictionary. From the context, I guess it mean "disregard", right ?
"when I was raiding": so now, you don't play HV anymore ?

Excuse me, my English is bad, so I want to ask (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) what does "jizzing over" mean, I can't find it in my dictionary. From the context, I guess it mean "disregard", right ?
"when I was raiding": so now, you don't play HV anymore ?

they mean that people were [going wild] or [acting enthusiastically] or [getting excited]

[www.urbandictionary.com] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jizzing

Oh, so he means people is glad with 10% bonus (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I mistake again, I thought he said people don't care about small bonus like 10% (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)