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What you're asking is this: Do you play your ace right away at the beginning or at the end? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Cure has 2 turn cooldown. Full-Cure has 10. So if I get in consecutive troubles, Cure will be out of cooldown sooner if used 1st. Overall survivability is better if Cure is used 1st.

the "using ace first" tactic is called blitz. You use overwhelming force to save later trouble. It's the same reasoning for using T3 before T2/T1, even in low difficulty run.

Cure has a higher opportunity cost, and, in the long term, higher mana cost than Full-cure.

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jul 22 2015, 13:22

I don't understand this logic. Can you please elaborate? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Why spend 3 turns healing an amount of health points you could heal in 1 turn?

The drawback is mana cost, but it's minor... even for heavy armor it's more than worth the turns saved.

supportive prof has no effect on Fullcure

Didn't know that! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah, if you're healing to 100% already, there's not much need for an extra 1.05x healing bonus from supportive perk. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

What you're asking is this: Do you play your ace right away at the beginning or at the end?

Cure has 2 turn cooldown. Full-Cure has 10. So if I get in consecutive troubles, Cure will be out of cooldown sooner if used 1st. And once you use Full-Cure, won't be able to use it again for the next 10 turns, leaving you a bit more vulnerable. Cure comes out of cooldown faster, thus making it more spammable. So overall survivability is better with Cure.

If this was 0.81, you would be right. But now, we have infinite items, which are spammable and take 0 action time (and mana cost doesn't matter). Sometimes a player will get in trouble after using Fullcure, but they still have a few options - Cure, health potion (they're super cheap), Cure again, and either health elixer or other consumables to reduce Fullcure's cooldown. There's never a point where you're in any danger of dying, and the times when a player will be dangerously low on health after using Fullcure and using Cure and using health potion are extremely rare, even as mage.

The quicker clear speed is more than worth it. There are no real survivability problems anymore (except in late or high difficulty GF).

Didn't know that! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah, if you're healing to 100% already, there's not much need for an extra 1.05x healing bonus from supportive perk. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

ninja'ed (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Are you regularly using Fullcure and only using Cure as backup?

That's what I do, it's probably the best way to go even as mage. And since supportive prof has no effect on Fullcure I don't think it's worth it.

No, I use Cure preferentially. How many rounds between your full-cure? I think I'm fragile enough that using mostly Full-cure would make me bleed SP, and I would still need to Cure frequently while Full-Cure is on cooldown.

Straw poll for mages: if you have tried playing mainly with Full-Cure, are you still doing that, or have you gone back to mainly Cure?

Edit: ok, I see that Holy-demon has tried and prefers Full-Cure. Tetron and I haven't tried it. Anyone else?

I'd prefer blood tokens to the point where I can play both daily. I got Tokenizer 1 but I'm still barely able to play FSM daily, just like before. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Blood tokens directly increase income significantly via noodles/trophies, and a small chance of a good drop from FSM or TT&T. If I got 10 more blood tokens a day instead of chaos tokens, that might be worth 50-70k/day. At my current level of 78 monsters and 83 token cost for 2 more; 10 chaos tokens = 1/4th of an additional monster - 1/4th of (average of +2.5k? credits worth of gifts every 2.5 days) = +250 credits/day. To break even with the alternative of playing TT&T with 10 tokens would take 200+ days - assuming that material prices don't keep dropping as they have been.

So it's debatable. I'm always feeling dangerously short on blood tokens but I always have more chaos tokens than I really care about.

Hmm. I still have a few hundred blood tokens and it's going up steadily with daily FSM. At the same time, I have never sold trophies, so I've been comparing zero credits from trophies with the 3-day-ly gifts from monsters.

Do you expect to stop playing HV within the next 200 days?

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Jul 22 2015, 13:39

Im not even tried that. I use cure at 45% mark and full-cure here gives only 3,5k additional hp (my ordinary cure is almost 7,2k). And i cant rly use it on lower like 20%, because its gonna be quite often spark-heal and losing sp means additional turns for recovering. Also i use hover, so i cant change it fast in fest. And in latestage i just cant allow to lose recovery potential.

Sure that strategy has some potential, but it also has some disadvantage. So i prefer spend a bit more turns, but its very simple/safe way which works everywhere.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 22 2015, 13:51

the "using ace first" tactic is called blitz. You use overwhelming force to save later trouble. It's the same reasoning for using T3 before T2/T1, even in low difficulty run.

Cure has a higher opportunity cost, and, in the long term, higher mana cost than Full-cure.

ROFL. Offensive Spell and Healing are different stories altogether. Sure, Cure has a "higher opportunity cost" since it's more spamable, but it's the same reason why it's more "safe". If you're using Full-Cure, you mostly won't want to use it unless your HP is below 30%. Triggering Spark in that situation has more possibility than when spamming Cure and keeping your HP always above 70%.

Why spend 3 turns healing an amount of health points you could heal in 1 turn?

The drawback is mana cost, but it's minor... even for heavy armor it's more than worth the turns saved.

As I said above, the main reason why I don't like the Full-Cure based tactics is because of the high probability of triggering Spark....But about "turns saved", you have a solid point. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I still have a few hundred blood tokens and it's going up steadily with daily FSM.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

This post has been edited by tetron: Jul 22 2015, 14:00

Thanks. I understand your arguments, and they are the same as mine.

Well, I do prefer Full-Cure when playing REs on mobile, but that don't count.

Currently, we have 100% of the mages who have tried it prefering Full-Cure, while 100% of the mages who have not tried it continue to prefer Cure. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Additional data point is that Holy-demon plays GF at Nintendo, which he can comfortably clear. I'm playing GF at IWBTH, which I'm nowhere near clearing and want a strategy to last as deep into it as possible.

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Jul 22 2015, 14:02

1. at your level, i'd use IWTBH or PF only for REs just to farm EXP
2. dark strike is good, but you may prefer nimble suffix for bonus parry - wakizashis are fine too - and maybe ethereal prefix. you may also want to start looking for a 1H power build, since it WILL be the best setup past lv200
3. (optional but still useful) start grinding deprecating proficiency: imperil (30 prof) and silence (40 prof) are quite nice spells to have later

emmm what is 1H power build ?? should i start playing using 1H and shield ???
is it good enough for me to use 1H and Shield with Leather equipment??
and i already try RE IWBTH but still cant >.< when the monster spawn is 7 or 8

This post has been edited by DotHackHaseo: Jul 22 2015, 14:07

I think I'm fragile enough that using mostly Full-cure would make me bleed SP, and I would still need to Cure frequently while Full-Cure is on cooldown.

Use Cure and health potion when Fullcure is on cooldown and you should be fine. Best case, you save yourself 3 or so turns casting Cure (more, if you take damage during those turns). Worst case, you spend a potion and cast Cure once or twice while Fullcure is on cooldown. Benefits are significantly greater.

Do you expect to stop playing HV within the next 200 days?

I was just showing how it was debatable, especially so for those with more monsters. Chaos tokens comparatively take so long to pay off, which some may not be willing to endure.

Im not even tried that. I use cure at 45% mark and full-cure here gives only 3,5k additional hp (my ordinary cure is almost 7,2k). And i cant rly use it on lower like 20%, because its gonna be quite often spark-heal and losing sp means additional turns for recovering. Also i use hover, so i cant change it fast in fest. And in latestage i just cant allow to lose recovery potential.

For 1h I cast Fullcure on less than 20% HP. Except in late PF-fest, when it's higher. I still Spark very rarely, and my gear isn't that good or even defensive at all. When you melee, at least, you might try something similar. 45% sounds too high for using Fullcure, and the slightly greater risk of Spark proccing is worth it IMO.

ROFL. Offensive Spell and Healing are different stories altogether. Sure, Cure has a "higher opportunity cost" since it's more spamable, but it's the same reason why it's more "safe". If you're using Full-Cure, you mostly won't want to use it unless your HP is below 30%.

If there's no risk of dying, which there isn't, "safe" is of no concern. The uncommon case of proccing Spark is fine, and likely well worth the turns saved.

emmm what is 1H power build ?? should i start playing using 1H and shield ???
is it good enough for me to use 1H and Shield with Leather equipment??

At your level, just start with 1h. Rapier + force shield with decent block. Power armor (variant of heavy armor) is good after you have enough innate tankyness from level/proficiency/gear that defense is not much of an issue - that is, after level 250-something. Before then, ordinary leather or plate in most slots is probably fine.

At your level, just start with 1h. Rapier + force shield with decent block. Power armor (variant of heavy armor) is good after you have enough innate tankyness from level/proficiency/gear that defense is not much of an issue - that is, after level 250-something. Before then, ordinary leather or plate in most slots is probably fine.

so i just need to change my weapon to 1H rapier and force shield right since my proficiency on light armor already high so it's ok to stay using leather armor.

and which item should i IW now ??
my club or my shortsword
i havent search for Rapier and shield i dont have it right now only superior item shield but someone kind enough to give me a ex rapier hallowed nimble

Well, With 1h i almost dont use cure at all on low diff. I mean i can clear hellfest and do it like 40 times. Even on pf i dont use it very often even after 800-900 round, so i think full-cure here has full potential and its very good tactic. But i changed to mage quite long time ago and mage is weak without scrolls.

It still can work in some cases (like holy_demon), but he uses holy with good gear on low diff. I mean compare to elemental mage he clears extremely fast. Its good reduction to income damage.
UPD. But actually... maybe i should try.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 22 2015, 14:26

so i just need to change my weapon to 1H rapier and force shield right since my proficiency on light armor already high so it's ok to stay using leather armor.

and which item should i IW now ??
my club or my shortsword
i havent search for Rapier and shield i dont have it right now only superior item shield but someone kind enough to give me a ex rapier hallowed nimble

Better to look for an Ethereal weapon, that way you get the void damage bonus and don't have to spend 300k or equivalent to get IW 10 on weapon for void damage. Even if all you can get is Exquisite rapier of useful suffix or Superior Slaughter with not too bad stats, that'd be fine.

You could even get by without Ethereal/void damage. It'll be easier to find and cheaper, but you'll do less damage.

Since neither your club nor your shortsword are rapiers, I wouldn't bother with IW even if it was doable.

Better to look for an Ethereal weapon, that way you get the void damage bonus and don't have to spend 300k or equivalent to get IW 10 on weapon for void damage. Even if all you can get is Exquisite rapier of useful suffix or Superior Slaughter with not too bad stats, that'd be fine.

You could even get by without Ethereal/void damage. It'll be easier to find and cheaper, but you'll do less damage.

Since neither your club nor your shortsword are rapiers, I wouldn't bother with IW even if it was doable.

i have a ex ethereal short sword of slaughter can i use it for 1H + shield type??
and is it really okay to play 1H + Shield using Leather Equipment

For 1h I cast Fullcure on less than 20% HP. Except in late PF-fest, when it's higher. I still Spark very rarely, and my gear isn't that good or even defensive at all. When you melee, at least, you might try something similar. 45% sounds too high for using Fullcure, and the slightly greater risk of Spark proccing is worth it IMO.

Melee is a toooooootally different story, let alone 1H. How about when you Mage? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

If this was 0.81, you would be right. But now, we have infinite items, which are spammable and take 0 action time (and mana cost doesn't matter).

There's never a point where you're in any danger of dying

They are not THAT spammmable. 40 Turns cooldown is a long time. Besides, I'm not talking about actually dying, what I'm talking about is the trigger of Spark, which I find very irritating.

i have a ex ethereal short sword of slaughter can i use it for 1H + shield type??
and is it really okay to play 1H + Shield using Leather Equipment

Rapier is 10x better. Penetrated Armor gives you the potential to do double or more damage to targets with stacks. I would prefer Exquisite rapier to Peerless shortsword at your level.

Though, you need to get some PA stacks in for that to help. If a player plays only on low difficulty where monsters die in less than 3 hits, there won't be much help with PA, and axe or club would usually be better (high weapon damage).

Yes, leather is fine for your level. Only after you're feeling you have more than enough defense to survive IWBTH or PF would it definitely be better to switch to heavy power.

Melee is a toooooootally different story, let alone 1H. How about when you Mage?

With mage, I Fullcure around 30%, though I usually only play ~Nintendo.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Jul 22 2015, 14:33

Rapier is 10x better. Penetrated Armor gives you the potential to do double or more damage to targets with stacks. I would prefer Exquisite rapier to Peerless shortsword at your level.

Though, you need to get some PA stacks in for that to help. If a player plays only on low difficulty where monsters die in less than 3 hits, there won't be much help with PA, and axe or club would usually be better (high weapon damage).

Yes, leather is fine for your level. Only after you're feeling you have more than enough defense to survive IWBTH or PF would it definitely be better to switch to heavy power.

eerrr i dont have ethereal rapier is normal rapier such a Ex Hallowed Rapier of Nimble is okay ??
and which shield is better to use i want to search for shield now (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

eerrr i dont have ethereal rapier is normal rapier such a Ex Hallowed Rapier of Nimble is okay ??
and which shield is better to use i want to search for shield now (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hallowed Nimble isn't great but for Exq it should be all right, especially since it's only temporary.

Look for a high block Force Shield.

Hallowed Nimble isn't great but for Exq it should be all right, especially since it's only temporary.

Look for a high block Force Shield.

thx i'll go looking for shield right now >.<

Actually im doing fest and maybe it has sense. Its only 450 round, so its a bit early to say, but i used like in 2-3 times cures. I think all knows mana is extremely cheap (100credits for 1000mp), while price for 1turn is usually 25+ credits and for some high lvls maybe even 50+ or 75+.