[X] My Assistant

Hmm. Compared to holy, shouldn't dark have similar casting speed and mobs have equal or lower resist to dark?

Anyway, I suggested anything but holy/dark for Mantra because

- his level is high enough to be a real elemental mage (minimum cooldown for T3 spell)

- better imperil + proficiency mitigation reduction for elementals works out better than holy/dark imperil + proficiency mitigation reduction for holy/dark. To get the same reduction, you'd need 2 cottons for holy/dark vs 1 for elemental. The additional phase should help much for damage.

This post has been edited by mozilla browser: Jul 20 2015, 16:25

Not rly. There is nothing faster (turn based) than holy/dark. Maybe its not perfect sustain (a bit longer spells, high mana price), but new pot system is much more favorable for holy/dark also.
Except cure system changes (but again oak has huge sup prof).

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 20 2015, 16:51

Counter resist gets better as you get closer to level 500.

Interesting. How? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Because mdb, edb gets very high amount? And also mobs getting higher resist.
UPD. But its quite low difference and counter-resist is quite useless. I mean its good, but we can see effect only with huge amount. On pf some mobs has nice resist. Lets say 27%.

No reduction 40%
50% reduction 42%
75% reduction 16%
90% reduction 2%

Same for 15% resist. 60%/34%/6%
10% resist. 72%/25%/3%
5% resist. 87%/12%/1%

So it looks very nice, right? But it only works in few conditions. Pf diff, monster with high wis and chaos upgrade and even here difference exist only if monster makes us do additional turns. If mob has 10% resist (and its very solid amount on diff lower than pf), than even 50% counter-resist reduce mostly 15% from 50% reduction to full damage (8% damage difference). And if we look at high wis monsters, than its not only not very common (elemental, humanoid, celestial) compare to someone like giant. But also that monsters has quite "weak" hp/defense. So in most of time it means anyway good half damage compare to tanky one. Some examples with equal pl/chaos:

Celestial. 140k hp, 69% mmi
Arthropod. 190k hp, 73% mmi

So if we have 2 mobs together, than celestial should resist many times to die after arth. If we hit 40k, than its only with 60% resisted to half damage.
Sure it gives also some damage even against low-resist monsters, but overall its not something very big. And because we cant rly get huge amount without lose in other direction, than its better to focus on something different. But some small changes works very nice. 5pen in staff is good, because all other potency gives small increase. At least 1 cotton is good, because its also reduction to mitg. But after that we cant rly do something better. Use second cloth? But than on pf with imperil it doesnt reduce mitg at all. For higher counter-resist? But than we lose more stats. Use willow? Than we lose prof (counter-resist and mitg) and edb.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 20 2015, 18:54

Hmm. Compared to holy, shouldn't dark have similar casting speed and mobs have equal or lower resist to dark?

Well, I didn't look into that part but dark doesn't have induced MMI reduction with its proc (a bit better defensive profile maybe, since it causes 10% miss for monsters). That's why you have to increase the casting speed or the raw damage to keep the clearing speed up to par with holy.

Also, as nec1986 said, it's not really sustainable in the long run since you don't have the ether theft...

Pick one element only to focus on. Better to be able to do, for instance, 200% of base damage (with 100 EDB in one element) all the time, than to be doing only 113% damage or so when you alternate elements. Mitigation reduction from alternating elements isn't good enough to justify the damage loss, nor is the much increased mana requirements, nor are the spell explosions.

Yes, the spell explosions aren't really potent enough to be a thing. Maybe if they had a chance to stun? Of course I still do them anyway because I'm using whatever equipment I can get and run at 130-160% across the board.

Q1.

How does the battle system choose which class(es) of monster to fight in battle?

• A
  • Step 1. Generate a random number and a class. For example, 3 and Giants. Choose 3 Giants from the monster pool.
  • Step 2. Repeat Step 1 until the predefined number (less than or equal to 10) of monsters is fulfilled.
• B
  • Step 1. Randomly choose a monster from the monster pool; then choose a couple of monsters with the same class.
  • Step 2. Randomly choose a monster with a different class; then choose a couple of monsters with the same class.
  • Step 3. Repeat Step 2 until the predefined number of monsters is fulfilled.
• C
  • Any other possibility?

Q2.

Does a Lv.200 player have the same chance of encountering any class of monster as a Lv.500 player?
Or is it somehting like "Lv.200 is prone to facing Undead, Celestial and Giant, while Lv.500 is more likely to face Arthropod, Mechanoid and Humannoid"?

Q3.

If there were 1000x PL500 Giants and 1x PL500 Avion on the HV server, which one would be correct?

• A. The chance of encountering the Giant class would be the same as the Avion class.
• B. The chance of encountering the Giant class would be a thousand times higher than the Avion class.

What about 1000x PL2250 Giants and 1x PL25 Avion? Is the answer the same?

Is there any reason to farm the schoolgirl arenas on normal for schoolgirl trophies?

Well, I didn't look into that part but dark doesn't have induced MMI reduction with its proc (a bit better defensive profile maybe, since it causes 10% miss for monsters). That's why you have to increase the casting speed or the raw damage to keep the clearing speed up to par with holy.

Also, as nec1986 said, it's not really sustainable in the long run since you don't have the ether theft...

Dark has "10% flat out damage reduction from monsters", not "10% miss chance from monsters". (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

-snip-

Your questions are becoming more and more focused on "How HV works internally" by each passing day. You should start asking Tenboro directly. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Is there any reason to farm the schoolgirl arenas on normal for schoolgirl trophies?

The 3 SG arenas usually produce Trophies worth of roughly ~40k per day. So for most players, yes, farming them in low difficulty is profitable. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

thanks scremaz...
one other (stupid) question...when i salvage a upgrade item..i get binding and RA/Defmatrix/Shade..the only thing i lost is regular/robust, that it???

when you salvage a froged equip, you'll earn back:

• no catalysts at all. their purpose is to be a credit sink, so no reason to be retrieved. poof!
• a certain amount of scraps, probably based on the original selling price. barely worth mentioning.
• 90% (fixed amount, rounded down) of ALL the items you used to upgrade, which means:
  • 90% of all materials, being them LG/MG/HG + 1 depending on the quality prefix of your gear
  • 90% of all bindings. though the first 5 levels don't count, so it will be better to say 0.9 * (potency_level - 5)
  • in case it's a T3 gear (force shield, phase/shade/power armor) 90% of all the special components used (matrixes, phazons, shades, actuators), first 5 levels included, so 0.9 * (potency_level)

Your questions are becoming more and more focused on "How HV works internally" by each passing day. You should start asking Tenboro directly. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
The 3 SG arenas usually produce Trophies worth of roughly ~40k per day. So for most players, yes, farming them in low difficulty is profitable. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That little bit would help (plus the credits from mobs, and vendoring mob drops)

That little bit would help (plus the credits from mobs, and vendoring mob drops)

In terms of Raw Credit drop: From what I've seen, in Hell, the 3 SG Arena combined generates roughly ~30k per day, and in IWBTH/PFUDOR, roughly ~50k per day. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

since you don't have the ether theft...

I dont think its very good idea to use mp theft. For me its restores mostly 20-40 mp, but the weak point of it is duration. Its bound to monster. For example tap is stable 25 for 1 stack and 50 for 2 and its bound to players turns. So we cant rly hit last monster once and get our full potential with theft. We have to use it exactly at start and if we waste move against high amount of monsters than we get damage. Also its almost impossibly to get full duration, because monsters just die before the end at any diff.

And also its probably even better to use pot fast than aim our drain/tap. It cost only 100c and gives for me almost 1k mp. So main difference is mostly 10% mitg or 10% damage reduction (with a bit lower native dark mitg). And of course staff. Oak has huge sup prof, so its nice bonus for cures.

Q1. Id say its like potency chance. Because if we look at group, than its mostly high amount of some class. Even avion who is very-very rare mostly reserve few slots. But at the same time more common class often has almost all slots.
Something like giant, giant, undead, giant, giant, giant, undead, giant isnt something very unusual. But the more rare class the less groups like that appears.

So we can say at least 2 conditions:
1. Pl, because higher pl always appear more often than any other.
2. First droped class. Because its almost always dominant.

If its not very common class than exist quite solid chance to get others, so its probably 3rd thing. Appear chance include something for it (or cd or maybe something like amount of population). Maybe its only cd, because if monster appear and class is rare than we cant get him soon. And because they have different pl than instead avion x6 we get avion who has higher pl and appear, but all others on cd. So system just cant complete em. But mostly its also has quite loyal chances, so main groups is usually 3-4 classes. I cant say correct chances, because for that needs huge amount of samples. But its not hard to do few conclusion by looking at groups.

Q2. Its probably isnt same. But the reason for that should be pl. 200lvl probably just cant face same amount of specific range and he also has access to lower range. And because % of monsters at that ranges is different, than they face different % of classes. But that doesnt mean some class has higher chance, because all monsters with same pl has equal chance to appear. Higher chance to face some class means more monsters with that class.

Q3. 1000 times difference. And if avion even has lower pl, than chance should be even lower. Thats quite easy to show exactly at avions, because its rare class. Mostly we see only 1-2 avions per round once per 5-6 rounds. Thats equal to their population. We dont see em more often and not less also.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 20 2015, 20:45

Q1.

How does the battle system choose which class(es) of monster to fight in battle?

• A
  • Step 1. Generate a random number and a class. For example, 3 and Giants. Choose 3 Giants from the monster pool.
  • Step 2. Repeat Step 1 until the predefined number (less than or equal to 10) of monsters is fulfilled.
• B
  • Step 1. Randomly choose a monster from the monster pool; then choose a couple of monsters with the same class.
  • Step 2. Randomly choose a monster with a different class; then choose a couple of monsters with the same class.
  • Step 3. Repeat Step 2 until the predefined number of monsters is fulfilled.
• C
  • Any other possibility?

In my experience it's most likely:
1. Determine min/max Power Level (there has to be a min powerlevel somewhere in there, since idk when i last faced a sperm whale or sth like it)
2. generate list of monsters matching min/max PL
3. generate random number (biased toward max PL)
4. pick random monster (determined by random number)
(4.5) depending on monster/trainer spread, remove all other monsters for the trainer's monster that got picked
5. repeat 3-5 if duplicate trainer (only 1 monster per trainer per round) found or until all spots have been picked

reasoning behind 4.5 is, that it may be cheaper computationally to remove the entries instead of repeatedly picking random numbers and checking if the trainer has already been picked

Q2.

Does a Lv.200 player have the same chance of encountering any class of monster as a Lv.500 player?
Or is it somehting like "Lv.200 is prone to facing Undead, Celestial and Giant, while Lv.500 is more likely to face Arthropod, Mechanoid and Humannoid"?

In theory yes, if you assume that monster class spread is uniform through all PowerLevels
In practice no, since the most High PL monsters seem to be either Giant, Arthropod (gc's menagerie) with some dragons and celestials sprinkled in. (see [hvlist.niblseed.com] hvlist.niblseed)

Q3.

If there were 1000x PL500 Giants and 1x PL500 Avion on the HV server, which one would be correct?

• A. The chance of encountering the Giant class would be the same as the Avion class.
• B. The chance of encountering the Giant class would be a thousand times higher than the Avion class.

What about 1000x PL2250 Giants and 1x PL25 Avion? Is the answer the same?

Well ... multiple scenarios ... assuming there are no other monsters in the pool
1. all monsters belong to the same trainer => 1000:1 chance for giant:avion
2. all giants belong to the same trainer => 1:1 chance for giant:avion
3. all giants belong to an individual trainer => 1000:1 chance for giant:avion
4. half the giants belong to the same trainer => 501:1 chance for giant avion
i think you get the idea

The second part is level-dependant, if you are level 0 you will never see a giant, if you are level 500 you probably won't see the avion.

where you got info about trainers limits?

This post has been edited by nec1986: Jul 20 2015, 21:50

Dark suffers from low casting speed and monster resist. To be op with dark, you need charged/radiant phase and eco 5 + penetrator 4 (or 4/5) on the staff. Not to mention a real bit of forging (at least 20 levels) and better ragnarok maxed @ Lv.400...

Sure, but doesn't Holy have the exact same disadvantages/requirements to be optimal, except for mitigation reduction effect? And we all know how amazing Holy is, even without the Cure bonus.

Also, as nec1986 said, it's not really sustainable in the long run since you don't have the ether theft...

I'm pretty sure Ether Theft is only somewhat useful on SG arenas, and even then any mage can use it if they want by casting a Paradise. And SG arenas aren't that good for grinding IMO, at least while clear bonuses are trash.

where you got info about trainers limits?

Had to search waaaaay to long for that ...

- Battles will now only feature at most a single player monster from every trainer.

HV 0.80 Patch Notes

HV 0.80 Patch Notes

Yes, and there was also a patch that limited how often a specific monster can appear. We were getting the same folks every battle otherwise.

I've been wondering if my trainings are where they should be for my level. My only HATH perks are IA I and II, and I play 1H Heavy if that matters.
Any advice would be appreciated.