[X] My Assistant

The real X-Ability to look forward to is X-Magic at 200. I will be an unstoppable killing machine once I get it.

The real X-Ability to look forward to is X-Magic at 200. I will be an unstoppable killing machine once I get it.

Only if you're a mage. I'll still be getting it to make my support spells faster, but for a pure melee its Max OC + Heartseeker + Niten = everything dies everywhere forever. Tenboro needs to make Niten capable of gaining proficiencies, even at a slower rate. Then I'd just switch to that instead of raising my 2H and DW separately. Right now I'm only using it at the tail end of a level when I've finished capping all my weapon proficiencies and I want to have some fun.

Only if you're a mage.

At a high enough level Mage > Pure melee (except for versus Legendaries, but Niten isn't the best choice for fighting them either). Nothing compares to being able to 1-hit rounds in IW. Once I hit 170 and get another 10% bonus to my Elec rating, those will be the norm (excepting for misses).

At a high enough level Mage > Pure melee (except for versus Legendaries, but Niten isn't the best choice for fighting them either). Nothing compares to being able to 1-hit rounds in IW. Once I hit 170 and get another 10% bonus to my Elec rating, those will be the norm (excepting for misses).

At least until us fighting types get decent Skills, hopefully in 0.5. *crosses fingers* Then there should be more balance between the two styles, but I think we'd still need an overhaul of heavy armor before then. You just don't get enough damage management for the price you pay in Compromise compared to evade and practically no proficiency penalties.

The Legendaries I only beat with pure melee because I have an eth rapier w/proc and I could exploit PA+Spirit. And I don't think you can beat the Gods without magic or exploiting crazy tactics (like the Soul Stones + Gum + Vase one I used against RL and IPU and mini-blasts). Physical attacks just can't do enough and you need magic rating in order to effectively use PA+Poison and elemental weaknesses. Anyway, FSM has way too much HP to effectively use the Spirit tactics, you run out of mana to keep yourself alive (I tried with 70% Dark mit, and I can only get him down to 30% before I run out of items).

I sure hope Tenboro is reading this....

A big part of the advantage of using magic is that it is a LOT less tedious. I mean, I can clear rounds in IW in 1-hit. I clear rounds in arenas in 2. Melee would never be that fast.

A big part of the advantage of using magic is that it is a LOT less tedious. I mean, I can clear rounds in IW in 1-hit. I clear rounds in arenas in 2. Melee would never be that fast.

A big part of that though is in building the character. The same could be said about melee, but you need to spend more effort on building mages. You gotta get the right equipment, you need a lot of AP for spells, and then there's the tedious task of raising proficiencies which play so much in the power of any of our spells. Its a lot easier now since spell costs are way lower than in the past and MM is free, plus there's Channeling with ET and CM.

Either way, the slowest and most tedious melee build I have is my 1HS. Even though I have strong Prism weapons on all three, 1H weapons just don't have the power as the other two (tradeoff for Block, I suppose). I can clear mobs pretty easy with my DW's bolstered attack/accuracy and Bleed while 2H just has a ton of attack in addition to Domino + massive Bleed = everybody dies.

Which one is better ?


Fair Ebony Staff of Destruction

Attack Damage Multiplier (+ 3.23)
Magic Damage Multiplier (+ 16.62)
Magic Accuracy Bonus (+ 18.22)
Magic Critical Bonus (+ 2.32)
Burden + 11.72

Proficiency Bonuses
Elemental (+ 3.97) Deprecating (+ 2.48)

Elemental Damage Bonuses
Fire (+ 0.97) Cold (+ 0.97)
Elec (+ 0.48) Wind (+ 0.97)

Primary Attribute Bonuses
Wisdom (+ 0.25) Intelligence (+ 0.74)

Hit Proc: 32% chance for Ether Theft
Duration: 1 turns
Level 179 / Slot: Staff / Type: Staff

or

Average Ebony Staff of Destruction

Attack Damage Multiplier (+ 4.03)
Magic Damage Multiplier (+ 13.45)
Magic Accuracy Bonus (+ 16.20)
Magic Critical Bonus (+ 2.78)
Burden + 10.88

Proficiency Bonuses
Elemental (+ 9.91) Deprecating (+ 2.48)

Elemental Damage Bonuses
Fire (+ 2.42) Cold + 1.45)
Elec (+ 2.91) Wind (+ 0.97)

Primary Attribute Bonuses
Wisdom (+ 0.62) Intelligence (+ 0.49)

Hit Proc: 32% chance for Ether Theft
Duration: 1 turns
Level 159 / Slot: Staff / Type: Staff

I have 76 Magic Rating and 28.64 Elemental Profiency (+4.96 from my Cap)

Which one is better ?

I'd say that the Average Ebony Staff of Destruction is the better choice. It has slightly lower generic magic damage bonus, but the additional +elec damage, and the +elem prof makes up for it.

Also, when you want to post equipment stats for comparison purposes, it's better to use the equipment URL. To get the URL to a piece of equipment, hover your mouse over the equipment name and press 'c'. That will reveal a popup window with the equipment URL in the address bar. Copy that URL and post it, and everyone can view your equipment popup automatically, without you having to copy and paste the stats. If a popup isn't appearing, you may need to tell Firefox's popup blocker to allow popups from www.hentaiverse.org.

A big part of that though is in building the character. The same could be said about melee, but you need to spend more effort on building mages. You gotta get the right equipment, you need a lot of AP for spells, and then there's the tedious task of raising proficiencies which play so much in the power of any of our spells. Its a lot easier now since spell costs are way lower than in the past and MM is free, plus there's Channeling with ET and CM.

I agree with you on most of those points (especially about getting the right equipment), except the one I bolded. You don't need a lot of AP for offensive magic spells, you just need to build your character intelligently. I'm a pure mage, and I only have 40 AP dedicated to offensive spells. And 12 of those 40 AP are just for bosses, as I picked up the highest rank of Holy and Cold specifically to exploit boss weaknesses. They're killable without those spells, but take longer to die. So, if you're not doing Endgame+ arenas on a regular basis, you can be a pure mage with only 28 AP in elemental spells (full Tier 1 and Tier 2 Elec, +6 into highest tier of Fire you can get).

The biggest mistake that inexperienced mages make is picking up all the elemental spells, which is wasteful and unnecessary. Because of how monster weaknesses and resistances work, Elec spells should be your bread and butter attacks. The only monsters that are resistant to Elec damage are Blue Slimes, Mind Rapers, and (to a lesser extent) Scary Ghosts. You can easily clear an entire round of monsters with just a few Thunderstorms, and then beat down on the Blue Slimes with your staff (or Magic Missile), if they're still alive. If you run into a Mind Raper, you can kill it very quickly with Fire spells, as they have low HP and a very weak to Fire.

Right now, all of my arena rounds, even against 5 minibosses at a time, boil down to "Cast Thunderstorm at the Zombie Cow (it's weak to elec and resistant to Fire), then cast Flames of Loki (Tier 3 Fire) at the Manthra." Most of the time, that sequence of 2 spells kills every monster in the round. This is because every miniboss that's resistant to Elec is weak to Fire, and visa versa, so alternating those 2 elemental spells is devastating. Don't expect to clear entire rounds with just 2 spells unless you've got crazy-high +elem prof gear like myself (my total elem prof is 250, even though I'm only lvl 155 right now), but you should be able to get decent killing speed without gear that's quite so strong as mine.

For folks who want to try being a Mage, I'd suggest 2 things:

1) Wait until you reach level 70 before seriously considering becoming a full time mage. You get Tier 2 Elec and Regen at level 70, both of which make the life of a mage a LOT easier.

2) Play a lot of IW before trying arenas as a mage. The monsters hit softer, and there's less minibosses to throw a wrench into your Elec-spamming fun. This will also help you get your base Elemental prof up.

However, that doesn't mean you have to stop doing arenas right after switching from melee to mage. The nice thing about being a Mage is that you really don't lose much (if any) melee power compared to a melee-centric build. With your usual melee gear, you can still clear out the arenas you usually clear every day, though it might take a few more potions.

The interesting thing about this game is that AP generally doesn't make you a better melee fighter: better equipment does. Except for the few AP you need to shift into Elec and Fire spells, you can keep all the same AP you have in HP and MP tanks, since they're equally important for both melee and mages. You can also keep the same supportive and deprecating spells, though deprecating spells generally become less useful against everything except bosses, since monsters die so much faster when you're a mage.

1) Wait until you reach level 70 before seriously considering becoming a full time mage. You get Tier 2 Elec and Regen at level 70, both of which make the life of a mage a LOT easier.

I mostly have to agree but i think it is possible to play at level 30 at a full mage. I played as a mage from the beginning and i had a very hard time (i lost many money in the arenas). Now i have shield & all elemental spell (hit everyone where it hurts) and everything is a lot easier and haven't lost a battle in the arena anymore.

But i don't recommand it for everyone. Being mage on this low levels need careful playing (you kill everything on your way but you need to heal every little damage) and a good staff.

I mostly have to agree but i think it is possible to play at level 30 at a full mage. I played as a mage from the beginning and i had a very hard time (i lost many money in the arenas). Now i have shield & all elemental spell (hit everyone where it hurts) and everything is a lot easier and haven't lost a battle in the arena anymore.

But i don't recommand it for everyone. Being mage on this low levels need careful playing (you kill everything on your way but you need to heal every little damage) and a good staff.

Not quite, at your level may appear that way, but it's only because most the mob's don't hit you with their special attacks yet, plus at level 40 the hits are going to hurt you more.
Another thing is that you cna't gain enough XP per level to increase all the attributes 1 level, so you're going to leave behind some attributes which will make your playing less effective.
Even if you can play as full mage at low level, it will be much less effective than being melee fighter, and you'll level up slower.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Feb 16 2010, 02:23

Even if you can play as full mage at low level, it will be much less effective than being melee fighter, and you'll level up slower.

I don't know how effective a fighter but being a mage is fun (what you need more?). Also i need to many time to change to an melee fighter because my Int & Wis double as high my Str & Dex (i don't need melee attacks).

Why is a mage slower at leveling? Because the Experience Bonus and Adept Lerner?

Why is a mage slower at leveling? Because the Experience Bonus and Adept Lerner?

Don't worry, XP gain don't depend on your style, I only said that because you can being a melee at lower level, you can go much farther, plus more rounds with lots of mobs, gaining more XP.
But a good mage setup, at upper levels can actually, be better for leveling up, since you can kill much faster, losing less time.
That's why coredumperror recommended to switch to mage only at level 70

This post has been edited by cmdct: Feb 16 2010, 03:01

A big part of the advantage of using magic is that it is a LOT less tedious. I mean, I can clear rounds in IW in 1-hit. I clear rounds in arenas in 2. Melee would never be that fast.

I'm with you boggy a lot less tedious (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm almost done filling in my dark magic boosts after getting pestilence & I was wondering if anyone is using Nerf & how well it works?

Hey darq, I've found that keeping my Primary attributes balanced gives me the best derived ratings in both attack and magic. My ebony staff of focus is an effective weapon and ether theft is a great mana saver.

I'm with you boggy a lot less tedious (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm almost done filling in my dark magic boosts after getting pestilence & I was wondering if anyone is using Nerf & how well it works?

Hey darq, I've found that keeping my Primary attributes balanced gives me the best derived ratings in both attack and magic. My ebony staff of focus is an effective weapon and ether theft is a great mana saver.

In that part, I disagree with you, it's right for +100 levels, but not before.
If you balance the stats, they're gonna be below of the actual level, more you level up, more below they goona be, and leaving END below the actual level is asking to get killed.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Feb 17 2010, 01:33

In that part, I disagree with you, it's right for +100 levels, but not before.
If you balance the stats, they're gonna be below of the actual level, more you level up, more below they goona be, and leaving END below the actual level is asking to get killed.

Balance your stats the whole way. I did it and survived.

Balance your stats the whole way. I did it and survived.

Really? Hum, just one thing, weren't you at l80 or more before heavy got nerfed?

Balance your stats the whole way. I did it and survived.

That's what I did & I think I was about level 30 or 40 when I went to full mage.

But I'd still like to know, does anyone use nerf & how effective is it?

In that part, I disagree with you, it's right for +100 levels, but not before.
If you balance the stats, they're gonna be below of the actual level, more you level up, more below they goona be, and leaving END below the actual level is asking to get killed.

At one point, the stats become higher than your own level.
See attachmed image for an example.

I kept my stats generally balanced.

This post has been edited by EvolutionKing: Feb 17 2010, 02:39

That's what I did & I think I was about level 30 or 40 when I went to full mage.

Well, I'm not a mage, so I can't argue with that.

I'm not saying, to only balance the stats at level +100, further more, it's not wise to do the opposite either, at least before level 60 or something.
When I was in the level ~45, I let END go below 2 levels so I could raise INT and WIS more, and I got much worse. (of course this is was after the heavy got nerfed)



@Evo, you right but it only occurs after l115, I believe, and yes I'm going to balance that way too.(I'm already doing it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )