[X] My Assistant

now I'm poor with 30~50k daily (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

I'm not much better than you. 50k~80k daily here. I do not play in arena so I have almost 0 chance to get good drop.

I'm not much better than you. 50k~80k daily here. I do not play in arena so I have almost 0 chance to get good drop.

You don't need it when you have all those good equips. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

depend on what you doing , arena or GF (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you playing more GF than arena , than upgrading scav is better choice (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Arena , than upgrade your LoTD (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
But remind you , after upgrading LoTD your regular drop will became worse first than slowly get better/ or not (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Well that is a good point. But sadly it is a mixup at the moment. Arena and GF is around 50/50 at the moment. And would 1 level of LoTD really makes a difference? I mean its 2,5M. That would be to much in my eyes, if i just would get a few more useless Leg drops. 2,5M is a lot c if you would just get some HG metal from it. But a good piece of equip, would be a way bigger hit, than just a little higher chance to get a drop at all. Oh, im so unsure.

You don't need it when you have all those good equips. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I think my equipment are rather bad for my level.
Most of my phase is ex_max.
People with similar level can clear GF with their mage set, while I still stop at ~300 rounds.

Well that is a good point. But sadly it is a mixup at the moment. Arena and GF is around 50/50 at the moment. And would 1 level of LoTD really makes a difference? I mean its 2,5M. That would be to much in my eyes, if i just would get a few more useless Leg drops. 2,5M is a lot c if you would just get some HG metal from it. But a good piece of equip, would be a way bigger hit, than just a little higher chance to get a drop at all. Oh, im so unsure.

From my experience, LotD 25 and LotD 22 have no different at all. For TTT, DwD, and normal equipment drops. You still get superior gears mostly in the maxed bonus situation.

I do think LotD 21 and 22 is different. 25 is not worth it if you do not have too many credits.

This post has been edited by Colman: Apr 28 2015, 07:41

From my experience, LotD 25 and LotD 22 have no different at all. For TTT, DwD, and normal drops.

Well, then maybe better train quarter?

Well, then maybe better train quarter?

If you want gear you should train quarter and lotd evenly. lotd is not magic.

and hope that i got some stuff that is worth

Well that is a good point. But sadly it is a mixup at the moment. Arena and GF is around 50/50 at the moment. And would 1 level of LoTD really makes a difference? I mean its 2,5M. That would be to much in my eyes, if i just would get a few more useless Leg drops. 2,5M is a lot c if you would just get some HG metal from it. But a good piece of equip, would be a way bigger hit, than just a little higher chance to get a drop at all. Oh, im so unsure.

"Hope" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If you've trained that much and have more to spare that you don't need to spend on equipment, then I think a star would be a more profitable choice, even if only Bronze or something. The additional income over a few months per additional credit spent is probably significantly higher with a star than with drop training, since you don't even have Bronze yet, yet have done quite expensive drop training. That's just my hunch though.

What protencies are prefered on Staff for elem mage ? Does anyone consider Penetrator as a good one ?

And since I'm here, how many pack rats are needed to pass End Of Days ?

Well, then maybe better train quarter?

Forgot to mention one important point.
When the next patch is near, avoid expensive training if possible.
I have done some drop training right before their price dropped by half....... Lost a few millions.

What protencies are prefered on Staff for elem mage ? Does anyone consider Penetrator as a good one ?

And since I'm here, how many pack rats are needed to pass End Of Days ?

Eco 5 is the most common choice.
End of days do not require pack rat training if you are patient. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
You can bring more SP potion and use ether tap..............until forever.
Max pack rats can increase your speed greatly.

This post has been edited by Colman: Apr 28 2015, 08:30

"Hope" (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If you've trained that much and have more to spare that you don't need to spend on equipment, then I think a star would be a more profitable choice, even if only Bronze or something. The additional income over a few months per additional credit spent is probably significantly higher with a star than with drop training, since you don't even have Bronze yet, yet have done quite expensive drop training. That's just my hunch though.

Yeah. Hope. Just look at this.

http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=402813ad91

Thats the only drop in nearly a half year, that is at least something. The rest? Salvage, bazar. Nothing else. Snowflake just hate me.

And i have still a loot to spend on equipment. Damed. Im propaply the only one with my level, who still havent his main weapon full upgraded. But i want finaly some drops to make money. And a gold star cost what? 25M? And a bronze a quarter of that? A third? I havent that much c. At least not at the moment. And this is the reason why a want to train my (how do we call them? Skills?) Ah you all know what i mean. I can make the 2,4M for the next level of LotD in a reasonable time. But not that much that i need for a star. Sad but true.

Forgot to mention one import point.
When the next patch is near, avoid expensive training if possible.

I could swear the patch is near for the last few months.

What protencies are prefered on Staff for elem mage ? Does anyone consider Penetrator as a good one ?

And since I'm here, how many pack rats are needed to pass End Of Days ?

Penetrator is great, but Eco 5 is even better. The "perfect" IW would usually be considered to be Eco 5 Pen 4, for most staves, from what I've heard, but it's so unlikely / costly in shards that aiming Eco 5 alone is the only viable option.

For schoolgirl arenas, just play on Normal, and very few Pack Rats are needed (if any). SG arenas aren't that worth doing anyway, especially on high difficulty, they just take too long. (unless you have amazing gear / high level, but in that case GF and standard arenas are probably a better use of time)

What protencies are prefered on Staff for elem mage ? Does anyone consider Penetrator as a good one ?

And since I'm here, how many pack rats are needed to pass End Of Days ?

I've been doing End of Days on hard for the past few days and I usually use around 6 or 7 greater mana pots just Imperil SGs and spam your tier 1 elemental attack and it doesn't take that long.

Im propaply the only one with my level, who still havent his main weapon full upgraded

I am in the same situation. I'm still using the 100k rapier I bought when I was level 150, only forged to 5. Staff is even less forged.

But i want finaly some drops to make money.

I think those dropping millions of credits into training, at this point, are falling into the trap of the boss's credit sink. Perhaps if you're 420+ and PFUDORfest a few times every day (for instance), you'd recoup the costs after a while, but otherwise, very expensive training is either for vanity or OCD, but not for profit. I've trained drops a bit less than you but I haven't found anything worthwhile on my own either... everything equipped or to sell is bought from the even higher level grinders.

I am becoming more convinced by the day that the equip drops gap between the rich and the poor in HV is too much. When I was a lower level, I used to think that once someone was capable of PF on arenas, they would occasionally find something nice, but that seems not to be the case. There is yet another order of magnitude to go, with damage perks and heavy forging, without which a player won't have the clear power or speed to come anywhere close to the top grinders. Hundreds of real dollars (euro, etc) worth of credits are necessary for that. I know that's the ultimate point of HV, but it's still quite disappointing from the player's perspective - for those who do not have such real-life resources, yet want to have a good experience with HV.

And a gold star cost what? 25M? And a bronze a quarter of that? A third? I havent that much c. At least not at the moment. And this is the reason why a want to train my (how do we call them? Skills?) Ah you all know what i mean. I can make the 2,4M for the next level of LotD in a reasonable time. But not that much that i need for a star. Sad but true.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying the deciding factor for you is impulse control, rather than measured cost and benefit over time? I've heard that intelligent saving of income is a useful life skill (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Scav 40 LotD 21 Quarter 14 Arch 6

Scav has lowerest income potential. Its only like 7k credits per 100k mobs. Why? Because chance is too low. 40->41 is only 27-->27.05 increase chance for cap mobs. Quarter in 2.5 times better, because this increasing is much better. Its 1836 gear drops per 100k mobs with 14 and 1890 with 15. So 54 gears is definitely better than 6k. But Archaeologist a bit better, because arti worth 11k. Its near 30k credits per 100k mobs.

But you can see even archaeologist is quite hard to pay back.

Scav has lowerest income potential. Its only like 7k credits per 100k mobs. Why? Because chance is too low. 40->41 is only 27-->27.05 increase chance for cap mobs. Quarter in 2.5 times better, because this increasing is much better. Its 1836 gear drops per 100k mobs with 14 and 1890 with 15. So 54 gears is definitely better than 6k. But Archaeologist a bit better, because arti worth 11k. Its near 30k credits per 100k mobs.

But you can see even archaeologist is quite hard to pay back.

This is assuming that the info in Loot Drop Rolls in the wiki is correct, right? Do we know that for certain?

I am very hesitant to trust it, due to other numerical problems that have existed, and slight changes in numbers could make optimal conclusions quite different.

I am in the same situation. I'm still using the 100k rapier I bought when I was level 150, only forged to 5. Staff is even less forged.

Really? Well, that is a surprise. But im also using a rapier back from, i think a was around 180~190. Dont know how much he is worth. Because this rapier is the one and only piece of equipment that has drop for me, that was really worth kepping. And most of it the forging that got into it, is from my own monsters.

I think those dropping millions of credits into training, at this point, are falling into the trap of the boss's credit sink.

Well, i feared to hear this. But it doesn't come unexpected.

Perhaps if you're 420+ and PFUDORfest a few times every day (for instance),

Well, i do allways PFUDORfest. Ok, just to round 120 until my all my mana potion are used. But still. I tried Hellfest once and got to round 603. But, even with Crys II it doenst fell worth the time and the stamina. Making everything else in PFUDOR, make Hellfest feel like a waste of time. Less EXP, less c droping, the equp drops are cheaper and so on.

you'd recoup the costs after a while, but otherwise, very expensive training is either for vanity or OCD, but not for profit. I've trained drops a bit less than you but I haven't found anything worthwhile on my own either... everything equipped or to sell is bought from the even higher level grinders.

So im at least not the only one that feels that way.

I am becoming more convinced by the day that the equip drops gap between the rich and the poor in HV is too much. When I was a lower level, I used to think that once someone was capable of PF on arenas, they would occasionally find something nice, but that seems not to be the case.

Yeah, i thought the same. Just reach PFUDOR and everything will be allright. After reaching PFUDOR all you have to do is just invest a few c into training and PROFIT. But, no. All i got from all the grinding, buying better equip, forging that equip, is the feeling that even Leg Drops arent worth the effort. And without the forum or the wiki, i wouldnt even know that peerless exist.

There is yet another order of magnitude to go, with damage perks and heavy forging,

Damage perks? You mean like Dæmon Duality for 2k Hath? Well, i cant see me get that before Crys III and i just got VV for the health.

without which a player won't have the clear power or speed to come anywhere close to the top grinders.

6413 ABD and i still fear even try the Dragon Dance on PFUDOR because of the time it will take.

Hundreds of real dollars (euro, etc) worth of credits are necessary for that. I know that's the ultimate point of HV, but it's still quite disappointing from the player's perspective

And remember this. You and me, we make at least some Hath and money per dawn. Imagine how the player feel, that get just one hath or even nothing.

I mean i know i moan on a high level. I have 13 Monster. Some of them allready on a PL that gives me HG materials, i can play everything exept the Dragon Dance on PFUDOR. I have a full power Armor set, that isnt that bad. Just only one equip on Ex, but just because it is a quite good Slaughter one. I got a quite good rapier droop. I can forge my eqip at least once or twice per week a bit up. It is just how you said. The gap between us and the really rich player, is just to big.

This is assuming that the info in Loot Drop Rolls in the wiki is correct, right? Do we know that for certain?

I am very hesitant to trust it, due to other numerical problems that have existed, and slight changes in numbers could make optimal conclusions quite different.

You can get your own set of Exq gears. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)
Everyone here is the same. Except a few catgirls.

Even with max drop training, in DwD last round and TTT, which having maxed drop bonus (Since 10B said it is maxed there), 95%+ drop are still just superior. The occasional mag+ drop are mostly leather/waki.

So, I would say there is no point to train over a certain level, perhaps 80% or 90% depended on how much you play daily.

This post has been edited by Colman: Apr 28 2015, 10:09

@ Elemental Strike does not crit?

Test setup: School Girls DwD@PFUDOR, Mace of Balance: Void, Fire, Void
+Crit Dmg: 58%
DPS exerpts:

no debuffs
109 3 Void Strike crits Ryouko Asakura for 1541 void damage.
109 2 Fire Strike crits Ryouko Asakura for 305 fire damage.
109 1 You crit Ryouko Asakura for 4834 void damage.

Penetrated Armor x 3
264 3 Void Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 3135 void damage.
264 2 Fire Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 719 fire damage.
264 1 You crit Mikuru Asahina for 10224 void damage.

216 3 Void Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2933 void damage.
216 2 Fire Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 784 fire damage.
216 1 You crit Mikuru Asahina for 10423 void damage.

Imperil
345 4 Void Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2408 void damage.
345 3 Fire Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 1318 fire damage.
345 1 You crit Mikuru Asahina for 7407 void damage.

Imperil and Penetrated Armor x 3
380 3 Void Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2593 void damage.
380 2 Fire Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2396 fire damage.
380 1 You crit Mikuru Asahina for 10674 void damage.

Imperil and Penetrated Armor x 3 and Breached Defense
217 4 Void Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2713 void damage.
217 3 Fire Strike crits Mikuru Asahina for 2512 fire damage.
217 1 You crit Mikuru Asahina for 11232 void damage.

Dmg varies by random roll on each hit. Numbers should nevertheless be sufficient to prove:
Elemental Strike does crit. If you need more DPS on Elemental Strike use Imperil to reduce mag_mig.

New thought: Does the second Void Strike bash against mag_mig like Elemental Strike?
High possibility, because it ranges only about 25-33% instead of a steady 50%

@ Mages taking too much dmg and SoL triggers

DPS Prefix Staves
Just tell me something dear mages:
Why is your evade < 50%? Using DPS staves in favor of ETHEREAL ones? Consider a Featherweight Shard if you use a non eth one. Evading is harshly reduced when burden is present and if evade is your only chance to reduce incomming hits you are busted.
Even for me as Shade user I almost /have/ to use an ethereal weapon because of a harsh reduction of about 4.5% on evade.

Phase without AGI
Its just a no go. Even if it was cheap, you did wrong.

SS/SoL/.... and Pr?
Sure, you need all that buffs, but you ever considered casting /IAing Protection? It reduces incomming dmg greatly, lets you heal on Regen better and is substracted first on incomming dmg.

The disappointing reality is that even with max loot trainings, you aren't going to find anything worth selling most of the time, especially if you're hoping to find that big-ticket item that will sell for millions. Regularly clearing all of the arenas on PFUDOR with max loot trainings may net you a handful of legendaries per month, and it's likely that all of them will be abortions with mismatched prefixes and suffixes, terrible stats, or types that no one is looking for. You'll find many more magnificents, but right now the market is so over-saturated with them that finding one that really stands out is about as rare as finding a legendary that's actually worth putting up for sale.

The only advantage that heavy forging and damage perks give is the luxury of time: The ability to clear your arenas faster so that you can get on with your day, and the ability to repeatedly speed-clear Grindfest on PFUDOR more times before you get bored. None of that guarantees that you'll get good drops, however. And even if you do happen to strike oil, you're one hasty purchase away from being poor again until who knows how long until your next good drop. The players who are truly rich have some sort of tangential way to make money that doesn't involve actually playing HV on a regular basis.