[X] My Assistant

TL;DR question: Is 1H + Shade just a stupid build?

imo, 1H + shade is one of the safest styles (arguably the safest one, unless we're talking about full leather). high evade/block/parry/resist.

for faster killing, you can switch shade to full power for more ADB. of course, you'll need a decent block for protection (ie Emax+ force shield or Tower Shield of Barrier). you can pretty much play everything @PF right away. no need for constant heals. just have Haste/SS/SOL/Protection on all times. you can skip SV.

ps. OFC is useful too.

TL;DR question: Is 1H + Shade just a stupid build?

Not really. The only problem with it is that to take the most of it, you have to be rich.

1H + Shade is basically an avoid all possible hits to the maximum, which makes you rely on evade, resist and block. To avoid most possible attacks, you must have great equipment to begin with, then spend more money on forging. IWing also helps with Jugs and random mitigations to increase the defense against the hits that go through. There's a guy here(I believe the experts, probably our expert stalker, can post his profile) that has a chance to get hit of around 11%, so yeah, not bad at all.

The only problem with this build is that the purpose of 1H + shield is that you have to actually get hit for the chance to block to proc, so if you have good evade, which rolls before block, you will evade the hit and lose all chance of blocking, thus leaving the enemy still able to hit you the next turn, as you just lost all chance of stunning it.

About the difficulties you are having, maybe it's because of the difficulty you are playing in. I'm using my old heavy power armor set(which is kind of crappy), and the most I can do easily with 1H + shield is playing on BT, which is less time consuming, and also doesn't require me to heal almost every round.

Just remember that I'm not actually an expert, as I'm just posting stuff I've read before. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

for faster killing, you can switch shade to full power for more ADB. of course, you'll need a decent block for protection (ie Emax+ force shield or Tower Shield of Barrier). you can pretty much play everything @PF right away. no need for constant heals. just have Haste/SS/SOL/Protection on all times. you can skip SV.

With my new rapier (double strike, 900 base damage, still plenty of upgrade space) damage really hasn't been a problem right now esp if armor debuff goes up at all. Obviously enemy HP will continue to scale up but for now it's quite manageable.

In general I'll stick with shade then, maybe buy some new pieces and upgrade/IW the good ones I have, just because the mana costs seem like my overall sustain might be better (esp adding in the Light Armor trainings for MP/attack speed), even with some healing. Only way I'm going through a mana bar right now quickly is on 8-10 enemy random encounters because I'm putting up buffs without spirit on and casting extra weakens to train up.

Only reason I asked was I'd seen almost nothing but 1H + power recommendations, but glad to know what I'm going with should work.

Edit to Kinights' post:

I'm quite rich (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I've been H@H on and off since I joined, and I bought a gold star on the cheap because of the bitcoin drop.

And yeah, I'm only having healing problems on PFUDOR, once I get below a certain difficulty the regen + mitigations alone keep me topped off most of the time.

This post has been edited by bobjoephil: Feb 17 2015, 18:34

Im using 1h+force+slaughter. Cures? Maybe once per few pf rounds, but mostly its few times in some unlucky/counter rounds.

Maybe its possible to use with light for even better defense instead attack, but i d change tactic, because heavy also gives specific mitg (huge amount) and with high block-parry and dont gain much from evade. First of all you need good block. Any stun is safe time without incoming damage and its also has silence effect (and silence is better than weaken). Thats why almost all get force shields. After that you can prefer to use slaughter, because you can kill before they use their sp attacks. And without sp they are not very dangerous. So you can see sometimes attack means some kind of defense. At the same time with fast clear you dont need more many mana, so you dont face high mana cost modifier problem.

You can easy buy start heavy-power set for only 100-200k (around 4k or a bit higher attack, depends on lvl). Or almost mid-late game set for 1kk-2kk (5k+).

With my new rapier (double strike, 900 base damage, still plenty of upgrade space) damage really hasn't been a problem right now esp if armor debuff goes up at all. Obviously enemy HP will continue to scale up but for now it's quite manageable.

In general I'll stick with shade then, maybe buy some new pieces and upgrade/IW the good ones I have, just because the mana costs seem like my overall sustain might be better (esp adding in the Light Armor trainings for MP/attack speed), even with some healing. Only way I'm going through a mana bar right now quickly is on 8-10 enemy random encounters because I'm putting up buffs without spirit on and casting extra weakens to train up.

Only reason I asked was I'd seen almost nothing but 1H + power recommendations, but glad to know what I'm going with should work.

iirc, i got an addition ~1000ADB from switching from exq shade to exq power (slaughter/protection/warding mix). also, a good offense is the best defense, because you don't need to dodge/block/parry/resist dead monsters. also, 1H+heavy uses less Mana overall than 1H+shade. you don't need debuffs either. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

iirc, i got an addition ~1000ADB from switching from exq shade to exq power (slaughter/protection/warding mix). also, a good offense is the best defense, because you don't need to dodge/block/parry/resist dead monsters. also, 1H+heavy uses less Mana overall than 1H+shade. you don't need debuffs either.

Is the first part not countered somewhat by the crit/attack speed/accuracy loss? Or is ADB just that powerful?

In simple way ADB is equal to time. If monster has 100k hp than with 5k adb we killing him in 2 times faster than with 2.5k (my average overall damage per turn is near 18k with 5.7k adb, so its 6 turns). I prefer to clear faster. I d change (and actually i changed set for hellfest a bit, but its still 4900) if my defense d be weak. But i have 65% phys, 52% block, 40% parry and 33-45% specific mitg. So in simple way i get only 0.285 (28.5% all attacks after block/parry) * 0,35 (phys def) * 0,65 (specific mitg) = 6.5% from base incoming damage. But actually i should also include 53% chance to stun monster (71.5% to block/parry with 75% to stun on counter) for 3 (4.5 with haste) turns. So you can see with high block/parry without evade we also get only something like 30% (2/(2+4.5)) from that amount.

This post has been edited by nec1986: Feb 17 2015, 19:20

Is the first part not countered somewhat by the crit/attack speed/accuracy loss? Or is ADB just that powerful?

1. imo, in terms of crits, the difference between shade & power isn't that huge. i know we're talking about 15%(?!), but overall it isn't that much when you factor in ADB.

eg.
Shade with 4000ADB @ 50%crit @60%dmg= (4000x50%)+(4000x1.6x50%) = 5200 expected damage.
Power with 5000ADB @ 35%crit @50%dmg= (5000x65%)+(5000x1.5x35%) = 5875 expected damage.

the difference will be more apparent when you factor in Spirit Stance & Heartseaker.

2. Attack Speed might make Shade safer, however, 1H+power is safe enough. also, in terms of clear speed Attack Speed is a non-issue. A human can only do X amount of actions per minute.

3. accuracy loss? what accuracy loss? at normal non-forge gear, i've already got 150% hit chance. as far as i'm concern, you'll hit everything even without Overwhelming Strikes.

lastly, i can lend you my crappy 1H IW set for 24hrs & you can make your own conclusions.
Exquisite Power Helmet of Slaughter
Exquisite Ruby Power Armor of Slaughter
Magnificent Power Gauntlets of Protection
Exquisite Power Leggings of Slaughter
Magnificent Amber Power Boots of Slaughter

1. imo, in terms of crits, the difference between shade & power isn't that huge. i know we're talking about 15%(?!), but overall it isn't that much when you factor in ADB.

eg.
Shade with 4000ADB @ 50%crit @60%dmg= (4000x50%)+(4000x1.6x50%) = 5200 expected damage.
Power with 5000ADB @ 35%crit @50%dmg= (5000x65%)+(5000x1.5x35%) = 5875 expected damage.

the difference will be more apparent when you factor in Spirit Stance & Heartseaker.

2. Attack Speed might make Shade safer, however, 1H+power is safe enough. also, in terms of clear speed Attack Speed is a non-issue. A human can only do X amount of actions per minute.

3. accuracy loss? what accuracy loss? at normal non-forge gear, i've already got 150% hit chance. as far as i'm concern, you'll hit everything even without Overwhelming Strikes.

lastly, i can lend you my crappy 1H IW set for 24hrs & you can make your own conclusions.
Exquisite Power Helmet of Slaughter
Exquisite Ruby Power Armor of Slaughter
Magnificent Power Gauntlets of Protection
Exquisite Power Leggings of Slaughter
Magnificent Amber Power Boots of Slaughter

1. You forgot crit hit always infect weapon proc (i.e.: PA), which can speed up the killing.
BTW, heavy have higher crit damage bonus; while light only have slightly higher crit chance.

This post has been edited by Colman: Feb 17 2015, 20:03

Btw, Someone tested it? I mean evade gives us not so much (specially with 0 pier mitg) and at the same time blocks is very useful reduction to damage. Maybe its even equal in some conditions.

Btw, Someone tested it? I mean evade gives us not so much (specially with 0 pier mitg) and at the same time blocks is very useful reduction to damage. Maybe its even equal in some conditions.

last time i used 1H + shade it was a bit slower than 1H + power, but i thought it would have been more difficult to keep spirit stance.
though 1H + power needs less buffs: haste, spirit shield, regen and eventually heartseeker and protection are enough (so 3 + 2 optional), while for shade also protection is mandatory (i guess for that 0 piercing mitigation), and maybe even a force shield of deflection; shadow veil becomes quite useful as well

long story short, 1H + power surely is more berserk/effective, but 1H + shade is still viable

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Feb 17 2015, 21:23

What is the best way to train my Deprecating prof? All skills looks useless against big hordes.

Also on which level of Depr Prof i will gain Imperil?

Also on which level of Depr Prof i will gain Imperil?

30. but while you're at it go to 40 to unlock silence as well (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

What is the best way to train my Deprecating prof? All skills looks useless against big hordes.

spam cheap deprecating spells (weaken or slow) in hit-and-run grindfest at normal difficulty: hoverplay or spellspam are your friends

Also on which level of Depr Prof i will gain Imperil?

If you're melee, then if you get a rapier you don't need Imperil.

spam cheap deprecating spells (weaken or slow) in hit-and-run grindfest at normal difficulty: hoverplay or spellspam are your friends

Crude IW monsters do a whole lot less damage than normal GF.

3. accuracy loss? what accuracy loss? at normal non-forge gear, i've already got 150% hit chance. as far as i'm concern, you'll hit everything even without Overwhelming Strikes.

lastly, i can lend you my crappy 1H IW set for 24hrs & you can make your own conclusions.
Exquisite Power Helmet of Slaughter
Exquisite Ruby Power Armor of Slaughter
Magnificent Power Gauntlets of Protection
Exquisite Power Leggings of Slaughter
Magnificent Amber Power Boots of Slaughter

I meant the loss of the accuracy armor skill. I'm sure geared probably it wouldn't be a huge issue as the difference past 100% isn't as big a deal.

Thanks for the offer but I can afford about that in gear (maybe a few less slaughter) pretty easy if I feel like playing around with it. I'd have to grind a fair bit of proficiency before it's really a fair test.

When talking about Crit & ADB, there's a few more thing that should take into account :

- Crit (and the Crit dmg bonus stats) DO NOT work with any attack that inherently cannot roll critical; elem strike, bleed, counter, are a few example that I could think of atm.

- ADB, on the other hand, work with everything.

- As people have said, Crit means 100% chance for your weapon proc, which has far reaching implication more than just 'it increase dmg dealt' as with ADB.

Sometime I wish people came up with some model to compare dmg for ADB and Crit while taking ALL of these variable into account—with reasonable assumption / simplification, of course.

This post has been edited by buktore: Feb 17 2015, 23:04

Hv stats? Quite decent example to compare one to other. A bit long for correct numbers, but definitely it shows practical result.

Sometime I wish people came up with some model to compare dmg for ADB and Crit while taking ALL of these variable into account—with reasonable assumption / simplification, of course.

I think you're looking for m118w11 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Given what he already has, it sounds like it would be near trivial to add in those possibilities (if he hasn't already).

Its a bit hard to count all, because we should include many staffs. Its like simulate whole game. For correct answer we should include even staff like attack speed of mobs, because if mob can hit more than once per turn than we have additional chance or on other hand some type of cap with high number of mobs for countering.

Its much easier just use statistic for comparison or opinion of experienced players.

Randomness plays its role.
Just calculate everything then the portion between tanky physical mobs & hard hitting magical mobs change. *drunk