[X] My Assistant

Well, giant is overused, so go for arthropod. Focus on piercing attack (which is light armor's weakness). Disregard int/wis and elemental mitigation for now. Raise the highest stats in priority. Get the first chaos upgrade of everything, as it is cheap, then focus mainly on Scavenging, Fortitude, and Brutality.

Many many Thanks (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Is there a way to work out the optimum ratio between EDB and Proficiency?

Is there a way to work out the optimum ratio between EDB and Proficiency?

Hmm, I don't maging (not yet (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) but according to wiki:

Mage Weapon
MDB > EDB = Proficiencies, Proc chance and duration preferably be 30-40% with 3-4 effective turns. The use of EDB/prof depends on the amount of EDB bonus you have.

Mage Armor
Proficiency cloth (Demon-fiend, Heaven-sent, or Elementalist) can be used when you have insufficient funds, but are less recommended as you get higher in proficiency.
EDB > PAB = Evade, generally speaking

EDB=prof? ...Sorry, not confident about this (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

-nah misread-

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Oct 27 2014, 05:47

And if you are asking about quality, the order is crude < fair < average < fine (retired) < superior < exquisite (+10% bonus) < magnificent (+15% bonus) < legendary (+20% bonus) < peerless (all stats maxed, +25% bonus).

exquisite (+5% bonus) < magnificent (+10% bonus) < legendary (+20% bonus) < peerless (all stats maxed, +25% bonus)

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Quality#Quality

Is there a way to work out the optimum ratio between EDB and Proficiency?

For non-forged set, I am very sure 200% prof > EDB.
For fully forged Leg set, I dunno. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
You can test and tell me the result.

This post has been edited by Colman: Oct 27 2014, 09:37

exquisite (+5% bonus) < magnificent (+10% bonus) < legendary (+20% bonus) < peerless (all stats maxed, +25% bonus)

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Quality#Quality
For non-forged set, I am very sure 200% prof > EDB.
For fully forged Leg set, I dunno. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
You can test and tell me the result.

I think 200% x level is a waste, if you get it to 180% you get good proficiency scale. Replacing one cloth with proficiency seems to have no downside. Maybe I'll look to get proficiency gloves and see.

magic_dmg = (base_bonus) * (1 + elem_bonus) * (1 + hath_bonus)*(proficiency bonus)

(? for impact of proficiency)

3853 MDB with prof shoes

3869 MDB with edb shoes


Prof shoes EDB 311.7% 651 elemental 0.56 proficiency factor (est.) (28% counter resist*, 14% specific mitigation**)

*adds variable dmg between 1.59%-4.8% est.(see skillchip thread), ** only adds full dmg without imperil or at higher player levels.

EDB shoes 358.5% 556 elemental 0.33 proficiency factor (est.) (16.5% counter resist, 8.25% specific mitgation).

I have a hath bonus of 1.25

So

Proficiency shoes dmg 3853 *3.117*1.25*1.14%*(1.0445, 1.1344)
=17875.54 to 19414.08

EDB shoes dmg = 3869 *3.585*1.25*1.0825*(1.0262, 1.0792)
= 17792.21 to 18711.12

One proficiency item is pretty good, but my edb shoes are pretty bad. If we add another proficiency item and assume MDB stays the same and replace my gloves:

Two proficiency est. (+100 elemental prof, est 0.8 prof factor#) = 3853*2.5848*1.25 *1.2*(1.0639, 1.192)
magic dmg = 15893.44 to 17807.11

*assuming lmax proficiency max forged +108, est 0.9 prof factor) =3853*2.5848*1.25*1.225*(1.08587, 1.216)
magic dmg = 16559.60, 18544.09

#prof factor is closer to 0.85-0.9 with scaling.

Two proficiency cloth does not appear to be worthwhile for me.

In my specific case replacing shoes gives a 1.0376% increase in dmg as well as cast speed and cost bonuses. Replacing shoes and gloves gives a 1% decrease in dmg as well as cast speed and cost bonuses.

Two items could be worthwhile for holy/dark where the castspeed and cost bonus is more important than a slight loss of dmg.

This post has been edited by EsotericSatire: Oct 27 2014, 11:59

Two proficiency cloth does not appear to be worthwhile for me.

In my specific case replacing shoes gives a 1.0376% increase in dmg as well as cast speed and cost bonuses. Replacing shoes and gloves gives a 1% decrease in dmg as well as cast speed and cost bonuses.

Two items could be worthwhile for holy/dark where the castspeed and cost bonus is more important than a slight loss of dmg.

very interesting. need some time to digest it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

though, if I understand you correctly, even with Lmax prof shoes maxed forged, you're still looking at ~160% prof, right? So wouldn't getting Lmax prof Robe (instead of shoes) max forged can get that ~180% prof (with Prof perk) can net you better EDB/prof without sacrificing 2 phase slots?

exquisite (+5% bonus) < magnificent (+10% bonus) < legendary (+20% bonus) < peerless (all stats maxed, +25% bonus)

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Quality#Quality

Woops, my apologies. There, edited. I was so sure about what I typed that I didn't bother checking the wiki link I included, silly me.

a lot of calculation (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Instead of calculation, I just used try and error.

tested @ PF, no imperil, holy only (not much different for elemental, but the number of turns are different. and I do not have good elemental sets to have a fair test yet)

• My experience of 1.6~1.7 prof factor often lead to the following situation: (once every 2~3 rounds) (my staff alone + perk can give 1.7 prof factor (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )
  - all mobs are killed in the first 2-3 hits, except one. (T2+ spell is needed)
  - the last monster have got 80%+ hp after every thing else are gone.
  So, it waste 8+ turns of times and mp to kill a single monster. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)
  Lazy to change equipments, may upload some screenshot when I feel like. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
  
• My experience of 1.95+ prof factor often lead to the following situation: (also once every 2~3 rounds)
  - all mobs are killed in the first 4-5 hits, except one. (T3 spell is needed)
  - the last monster have got 40%- hp after every thing else are gone.
  So, it waste less turns and mp to kill the last monster. Still wasting some turns. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif) Hope some build can make the killing speed even for every type of monsters.
  examples the examples are not really same as my statements (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Summary and conclusion:

Adding one more cotton reduce the peak firepower by a lot. It is true, no doubt.
Adding one more cotton increase the damage to the tough monsters, although the firepower is lower. Noted that the effect start to appear only after prof factor 1.6+. And the slope is steep. No point to use cotton if your target is 1.5- prof factor.

In PF GF, where many mobs can one-shot you, you may want to kill most of the mobs first. (for survival)
In Hellfest/Nintendo GF, you want shorter clearing turns (for both mp and time) and do not really need to care about defense.

It is hard to decide which one is better. But MDB staff + 5 phase is really bad in all situations. Well, if you like to use imperil on every single mob, you may have different opinion.

This post has been edited by Colman: Oct 27 2014, 13:06

Instead of calculation, I just used try and error.

tested @ PF

My experience of 1.6~1.7 prof factor often lead to the following situation: (once every 2~3 rounds)
- all mobs are killed in the first 2-3 hits, except one. (T2+ spell is needed)
- the last monster have got 80%+ hp after every thing else are gone.
So, it waste 8+ turns of times and mp to kill a single monster. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

My experience of 1.95+ prof factor often lead to the following situation: (also once every 2~3 rounds)
- all mobs are killed in the first 4-5 hits, except one. (T3 spell is needed)
- the last monster have got 40%- hp after every thing else are gone.

So, it waste less turns and mp to kill the last monster. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)
In PF GF, where many mobs can one-shot you, you may want to kill most of the mobs first. (for survival)
In Hellfest/Nintendo GF, you want shorter clearing time and do not really need to care about defense.

It is hard to decide which one is better. But MDB staff + 5 phase is really bad in all situations.

With Imperil or without?

A few questions:
1.Why would the wiki suggests melee players to have INT=0.7*Level?
Is it just for spirit points?
I can't think of any other reasons.

2.What is the reason behind this Recommended Combos listed in wiki?
2H/DW Weapon + Light Armor <=In what way it is suggested over Heavy Armor?

A few questions:
1.Why would the wiki suggests melee players to have INT=0.7*Level?
Is it just for spirit points?
I can't think of any other reasons.

2.What is the reason behind this Recommended Combos listed in wiki?
2H/DW Weapon + Light Armor <=In what way it is suggested over Heavy Armor?

1. for Spirit point + easier switch to mage when you want. It's not like 70% int use any signification amount of exp.

2. 2H/DW kills slow.......and need more protection, especially against magic. Strange enough, light armor give more protection than heavy.

This post has been edited by Colman: Oct 27 2014, 13:29

2. 2H/DW kills slow.......and need more protection, especially against magic. Strange enough, light armor give more protection than heavy.

Kinda, except power has higher raw PMI, MMI just lacks resist + evade, evade can be made up with a shield gaining blocking. The issue is that people don't balance their builds with warding and protection pieces.

Just get 85% PMI and MMI, then forge 10% juggernaught and Holy/Fire/Dark mitigations and run around laughing.

Two proficiency cloth does not appear to be worthwhile for me.

I'm at exactly 1.7x prof with only one piece. I think the max prof with one Lmax piece is ~1.75. With a peerless, it would be 1.8.

With two pieces, i'm at 1.95x prof, and there's a very slight decrease in damage output, but not that noticeable.

this is with the prof perk obvs.

Two items could be worthwhile for holy/dark where the castspeed and cost bonus is more important than a slight loss of dmg.

I hadn't considered this, but i'll try gfest and see how it goes.

This post has been edited by treesloth: Oct 27 2014, 14:18

A few questions:
1.Why would the wiki suggests melee players to have INT=0.7*Level?
Is it just for spirit points?
I can't think of any other reasons.

2.What is the reason behind this Recommended Combos listed in wiki?
2H/DW Weapon + Light Armor <=In what way it is suggested over Heavy Armor?

1. It is a general guide, realistically, you aren't going to see a difference in effectiveness with 300 int or 0 int for a melee character, but at a high level, you could trade ~1 strength for 350 int, so you might as well do it.

2. You can't really use Heavy Armor with 2H/DW because you are missing out on a potential ~60+% evade (or block), at higher levels, monsters consistently hit extremely hard and you can't just tank it. That being said, if you are rich enough, you could probably make it work (but we're talking 1 million vs 100 million credits here).

I used to think that Shielding is the TRUE Heavy Armor and I can get ridiculous high block with 1H full Shielding plates...
...Until I found out it's a multiplication, not addition (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)
Sigh, I want my credit back...

I used to think that Shielding is the TRUE Heavy Armor and I can get ridiculous high block with 1H full Shielding plates...
...Until I found out it's a multiplication, not addition (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)
Sigh, I want my credit back...

almost all in this game is multiplicative. only few things like BUR, ITR and crit damage are additive afaik

Curiously enough, attack speed is multiplicative while cast speed is additive.
It was very unpredictable to me. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Cats Lover: Oct 27 2014, 16:35

Experts, i noticed theres is like a skill tab during battle can i place skills there? if not whats its use?

thanks!

Whoops wrong thread

This post has been edited by aa2a2a2: Oct 27 2014, 17:16