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post May 29 2014, 20:04
Post #50621
kos9494



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QUOTE(jenga201 @ May 30 2014, 01:55) *

What about with the protection buff?

Seems like with fully forged Lmax stuff and protection, PMI could get up to 90%ish.

Does your mathematica support that?


I actually think that Protection absorbs damage pretty much the same way as Spirit Shield except that it does it all the time so it doesn't directly affect PMI/MMI does it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Also, your method works too well for me, sir. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:[puu.sh] http://puu.sh/96rDT/4e0a3eae83.png)

This post has been edited by kos9494: May 29 2014, 20:05
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post May 29 2014, 20:13
Post #50622
pervdiz



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QUOTE(kos9494 @ May 29 2014, 20:04) *

I actually think that Protection absorbs damage pretty much the same way as Spirit Shield except that it does it all the time so it doesn't directly affect PMI/MMI does it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Also, your method works too well for me, sir. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:[puu.sh] http://puu.sh/96rDT/4e0a3eae83.png)

Afaik protection doesn't function with a treshold like SS do, so it can be considered as a direct pmi/mmi increase (still multiplicative tho)
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post May 29 2014, 20:22
Post #50623
Kazetenshi



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How much am I looking to spend on a 3pab Magnificent Hallowed/Demonic rapier of slaughter with mmax base weapon damage and emax parry? Around 3-4m?

I don't really want ethereal rapiers because it's too much of a hassle to get butcher 5 and holy/dark forge at the same time.
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post May 29 2014, 20:34
Post #50624
kos9494



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QUOTE(Kazetenshi @ May 30 2014, 02:22) *

How much am I looking to spend on a 3pab Magnificent Hallowed/Demonic rapier of slaughter with mmax base weapon damage and emax parry? Around 3-4m?


I bought my Arctic Rapier (well, it has somewhat high parry rather than WD) at 1.2m and I guess it goes around that price for now.

It seems like Demonic/Hallowed Rapier goes up to ~2m even with just EMax ADB so I have no idea what the price will be for a MMax one...

QUOTE

I don't really want ethereal rapiers because it's too much of a hassle to get butcher 5 and holy/dark forge at the same time.


You don't have to max it to get dark/holy strike, just stay at Lv.9 with Butcher Lv.5, then use some dark+light infusions and it's the same. (holy_demon does it that way with his ethereal rapier)

This post has been edited by kos9494: May 29 2014, 20:49
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post May 29 2014, 21:21
Post #50625
Koaen



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QUOTE(kos9494 @ May 29 2014, 14:04) *

I actually think that Protection absorbs damage pretty much the same way as Spirit Shield except that it does it all the time so it doesn't directly affect PMI/MMI does it? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Also, your method works too well for me, sir. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)



Good good (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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post May 29 2014, 21:49
Post #50626
Aegnor Alkarin



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What do I need to do to improve my chances of getting a Pony drop? I'm lv 250 and its never happened for me. Archeologist is at 3/10, is that the problem?
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post May 29 2014, 22:00
Post #50627
kos9494



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QUOTE(Aegnor Alkarin @ May 30 2014, 03:49) *

What do I need to do to improve my chances of getting a Pony drop? I'm lv 250 and its never happened for me. Archeologist is at 3/10, is that the problem?


My Archeologist is at 0/10 yet I obtained 3 ponies so far (all from Arenas) so I'd believe it's all down to luck. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
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post May 29 2014, 22:10
Post #50628
Kazetenshi



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QUOTE(kos9494 @ May 29 2014, 11:34) *

I bought my Arctic Rapier (well, it has somewhat high parry rather than WD) at 1.2m and I guess it goes around that price for now.

It seems like Demonic/Hallowed Rapier goes up to ~2m even with just EMax ADB so I have no idea what the price will be for a MMax one...


You don't have to max it to get dark/holy strike, just stay at Lv.9 with Butcher Lv.5, then use some dark+light infusions and it's the same. (holy_demon does it that way with his ethereal rapier)


Hmm I guess it'll be around the ~3m mark, probably on the higher end

I don't want to keep using infusions everytime I want to run something (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by Kazetenshi: May 29 2014, 22:11
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post May 29 2014, 22:30
Post #50629
kos9494



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QUOTE(Kazetenshi @ May 30 2014, 04:10) *

Hmm I guess it'll be around the ~3m mark, probably on the higher end

I don't want to keep using infusions everytime I want to run something (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


To me, it's the no-burden that actually I'm paranoid about.
If you're using non-Mithril Power with high burden, you'll definitely go over 70 burden. At that point, you're going to start losing critical chance bits by bits.

QUOTE
Phys. Crit Chance = (1 - (1 - base) * (1 - equip_bonus) * (1 - prof_bonus?) * (1 - (3750 / (3750 + DEX + STR / 2))) * (1 - Min((Max((Burden - 70)^1.5, 0) * 0.02^1.5), 1))


Based on the formula, it won't be much but a few % can actually be crucial to 1H Power Slaughter with already low crit. rate.
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post May 29 2014, 22:33
Post #50630
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QUOTE(Aegnor Alkarin @ May 29 2014, 21:49) *

What do I need to do to improve my chances of getting a Pony drop? I'm lv 250 and its never happened for me. Archeologist is at 3/10, is that the problem?

I got my first pony at Lv.280+ with archaeologist 2, you're not that late for now...
(Got my 6th figurine while doing IWBTH T&T this morning ^^)

This post has been edited by boulay: May 29 2014, 22:33
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post May 29 2014, 22:35
Post #50631
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QUOTE(boulay @ May 29 2014, 16:33) *

I got my first pony at Lv.280+ with archaeologist 2, you're not that late for now...
(Got my 6th figurine while doing IWBTH T&T this morning ^^)


How often would one get artifacts if they were to have 6-7 archaeologist?
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post May 29 2014, 22:56
Post #50632
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QUOTE(darkx @ May 29 2014, 16:35) *

How often would one get artifacts if they were to have 6-7 archaeologist?


I have max trainings and I get an artifact maybe once or twice a month. I also play much more than the average player, I'm sure.
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post May 29 2014, 22:59
Post #50633
LeFlame-Befoe



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QUOTE(holy_demon @ May 29 2014, 07:48) *

Exquisite Arctic Mace of Slaughter

What do you think about this? I can sell it to you for 30k :/

Though, really you just need to buy ethereal mace slaughter, and it will outperform any non-ethereal mace regardless of stats. The thing with non-eth is that you need level 10 IW to be good.

The stun chance is too low. And yeah I need ethereal.

QUOTE(Hahhaa @ May 29 2014, 08:50) *

Sorry but I gonna make thing even harder to you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Consider switching to 1H or DW. I heard that 2H is not good bad at higher level (>200?) or difficulty. While stunned mobs unable to dodge, but the one that aren't, can. At higher level/difficulty, the mob will have high mitigation too. Even PA using Estoc won't help because of evade and parry from mobs.
I never use 2H so just shoot correct me if I'm wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You didn't really explain how 1H or DW are better than 2H so I'm gonna have to guess: 1H with its shield has block and DW has higher damage vs 2H? "While stunned mobs unable to dodge, but the one that aren't, can." This applies to the 1H club as well. "At higher level/difficulty, the mob will have high mitigation too. Even PA using Estoc won't help because of evade and parry from mobs.
" So DW for the higher damage with 2 slaughters vs a single slaughter 2H? I can see the advantage of having a club with stun and a rapier with penetrated armor for the massive damage.

Also lol I just noticed yesterday there's a WTB buying obsolete items for top credit so I'm constantly checking to see what's happening with that (5 PAB!) Exquisite Kevlar I sold you. I'm staring at that INT bonus now wondering how much MP it could have given me. That PMI isn't bad either.
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post May 29 2014, 23:02
Post #50634
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QUOTE(darkx @ May 29 2014, 22:35) *

How often would one get artifacts if they were to have 6-7 archaeologist?

Well, precursor artifacts should drop more or less frequently, I'm getting some every day with Archaeologist 4. Ponies however have a very low drop chance. Maybe once or twice a month like Jenga said...
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post May 29 2014, 23:09
Post #50635
Hoheneim



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QUOTE(LeFlame-Befoe @ May 29 2014, 22:59) *

The stun chance is too low. And yeah I need ethereal.


Maybe something like this one could be good enough?
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post May 29 2014, 23:42
Post #50636
darkx



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QUOTE(boulay @ May 29 2014, 17:02) *

Well, precursor artifacts should drop more or less frequently, I'm getting some every day with Archaeologist 4. Ponies however have a very low drop chance. Maybe once or twice a month like Jenga said...


Cool, thanks guys (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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post May 29 2014, 23:47
Post #50637
kos9494



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QUOTE(LeFlame-Befoe @ May 30 2014, 04:59) *

You didn't really explain how 1H or DW are better than 2H so I'm gonna have to guess: 1H with its shield has block and DW has higher damage vs 2H? "While stunned mobs unable to dodge, but the one that aren't, can." This applies to the 1H club as well. "At higher level/difficulty, the mob will have high mitigation too. Even PA using Estoc won't help because of evade and parry from mobs.
" So DW for the higher damage with 2 slaughters vs a single slaughter 2H? I can see the advantage of having a club with stun and a rapier with penetrated armor for the massive damage.


I'll tell you the reason why 1H has become a bandwagon style and how it is more viable compared to the other 3 melee at high difficulty.

Permanent Spirit Stance: Each successful Counter Attack adds 5~10% Overcharge even when you're already in Spirit Stance. When there's ~7 or more mobs around you actually GAIN Overcharge even when in SS mode just from counter-attack where as the other 3 melee style LOSE OC. All melee damage is doubled in Spirit Stance, so it's natural that people would prefer not to toggling around Stance.

*Orbital Friendship Cannon takes away 200% (or 210% in Stance) Overcharge so 1H shines even harder due to its FAST OVERCHARGE STOCK-UP if you have it. Crazy fact: You can still stock up enough OC from 100% to 210% and cast OFC without having to turn off Stance when there's a big spawn of mobs.

*Despite dealing better burst damage than 1H , DW is still no match for 1H when it comes to long-term dps as it can't keep Spirit Stance on permanently.

Anti-Parry: 1H's Overwhelming Strike has a base 20% Counter-Parry, with up to 100% at 5 stack. It cancels all the possibility a monster can parry your attack, stunned or not. DW 2H Niten can still do this if weapons have Overpower potency in them but that's still not close to 1H in terms of Counter-Parry.

Block: It's a treasure, nuff said. It works better than Evade since it can proc Counter Attack and unlike Evade it doesn't get lowered down by Compromise stat namely Burden. It syncs well with any kinds of armors.

Safety + AoE: Counter Attack is simply better than 2H's Domino Strike becoz first, you don't have to worry about some strong mobs staying alive out of your AoE range (5 or 7) while the rest are dead becoz Counter Attack proc. as long as these monsters' attacks are countered/parried, killing them without having you to target them. Second, 2H doesn't offer Block chance and 2H weapons do not have parry, which means your parry only comes from your DEX or 2H Parry ability. DW has good parry and with Shade it has Evade too but evading alone doesn't stun monsters like 1H does (1H's Counter Attack can actually stun monsters you see).

In fact for DW, people rarely use Slaughter suffixed weapon as offhand simply because Balance/Nimble (High Offhand Strike/ High Parry) can be much more efficient for DW. Club is good for stun, Axe is good for damage and Rapier is good for offhand as it has PA, high accuracy and parry. (Though, Club can be much better at PFUDOR difficulty to offset that extra parry chance from mob.)

Well I guess that's all I know.

-Off topic-

I tried equipping stuffs with the best ADB output I have and this is what I got. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(Power of Slaughter set + DW with 270 prof.)

(IMG:[puu.sh] http://puu.sh/96KIA/eb91f99e8d.png)

This post has been edited by kos9494: May 30 2014, 01:57
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post May 29 2014, 23:57
Post #50638
LeFlame-Befoe



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QUOTE(Hoheneim @ May 29 2014, 17:09) *

Maybe something like this one could be good enough?

Yep, that's pretty good. Preferably the chance should be at least 27% and DMG at 48.65+ base. I'd buy yours for 75k though.

QUOTE(kos9494 @ May 29 2014, 17:47) *

I'll tell you the reason why 1H has become a bandwagon style and how it is more viable compared to the other 3 melee at high difficulty.

...

Well I guess that's all I know.


QUOTE
Permanent Spirit Stance: Each successful Counter Attack adds 5~10% Overcharge even when you're already in Spirit Stance.

WOW

QUOTE

*Orbital Friendship Cannon takes away 200% (or 210% in Stance) Overcharge so 1H shines even harder due to its FAST OVERCHARGE STOCK-UP if you have it. Crazy fact: You can still stock up enough OC from 100% to 210% and cast OFC without having to turn off Stance when there's a big spawn of mobs.

WOW

QUOTE
*Despite dealing better burst damage than 1H , DW is still no match for 1H when it comes to long-term dps as it can't keep Spirit Stance on permanently.

True.

QUOTE
Anti-Parry: 1H's Overwhelming Strike has a base 20% Counter-Parry, with 100% at 5 stack. It cancel all the possibility a monster can parry your attack, stunned or not. DW 2H Niten can still do this if weapons have Overpower potency in them but that's still not close to 1H in terms of Counter-Parry.

Hmm... Overwhelming Strike can stack?

QUOTE
Block: It's a treasure, nuff said. It works better than Evade since it can proc Counter Attack and unlike Evade it doesn't get lowered down by Compromise stat namely Burden. It syncs well with any kinds of armors.

Hm hm hm. Block can give a chance to counter attack...

QUOTE
Safety + AoE: ...killing them without having you to target them. ...1H's Counter Attack can actually stun monsters you see.

1H has inherent stun (even without club) and is pretty much like automatic Domino hit. Interesting.

QUOTE
In fact for DW, people rarely use Slaughter suffixed weapon as offhand simply because Balance/Nimble (High Offhand Strike/ High Parry) can be much more efficient for DW.

Huh?

I want 1H NOW. Thorough explanations very well said that I'm afraid 10boro might nerf 1H now.

This post has been edited by LeFlame-Befoe: May 30 2014, 00:30
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post May 30 2014, 00:18
Post #50639
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QUOTE(Kazetenshi @ May 29 2014, 13:10) *

Hmm I guess it'll be around the ~3m mark, probably on the higher end

I don't want to keep using infusions everytime I want to run something (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


You should only really care about Holy/Dark infusions when running the SG Arenas...
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post May 30 2014, 00:22
Post #50640
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How does one go about valuating things? I feel like its difficult to see if something's a good deal even after looking at the PMIs, ADBs, PABs, etc.

Also, what shields (prefixes and suffixes) are generally the best to go with rapiers of balance?
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