[X] My Assistant

Also, light armor works like a charm to me, cloth/phase armor is horribly inefficient to grind magic prof with really.

Why is cloth/phase bad to grind efficiency with? I usually just go with armor that has the best Mana Conservation (Frugal cloth I think) when I go to grind proficiencies.

Also, what are 'PAB's? I know it's the quality of the weapon or something like that, but what does it stand for and how do you calculate it?

Edit: Oh yeah, which weapon would you consider better? Superior Arctic Mace of Slaughter or Superior Ethereal Mace of Balance? I know the Arctic Mace is higher quality/stats and is of the slaughter, but the Ethereal Mace has the void damage and mana conservation. This is in terms of killing the IPU so the mana conservation and void damage seems very helpful.

This post has been edited by Numby: May 24 2014, 16:28

So i've started end of days, at nightmare difficulty i shoul've know that there are a lot of schoolgirls there, now i will take a lot to complete it, i'm around the 74th battle, man i think i will complete it at morning

So finally atfer some hours of sleep i've completed it, man what a lot of time at lesast i have 50000c

Why is cloth/phase bad to grind efficiency with? I usually just go with armor that has the best Mana Conservation (Frugal cloth I think) when I go to grind proficiencies.

Also, what are 'PAB's? I know it's the quality of the weapon or something like that, but what does it stand for and how do you calculate it?

Edit: Oh yeah, which weapon would you consider better? Superior Arctic Mace of Slaughter or Superior Ethereal Mace of Balance? I know the Arctic Mace is higher quality/stats and is of the slaughter, but the Ethereal Mace has the void damage and mana conservation. This is in terms of killing the IPU so the mana conservation and void damage seems very helpful.

PAB = Primary Attribute Bonus = Strength/Dexterity/Agility/End/Wis/Int.

assuming you're 2H+shade, imo, Slaughter one is better because of a lot more damage. though, you might want to buy a Exq-Mag Mace for 20-50k. Ethereal slaughter ones are nice & no burden = more evade/crit/speed/etc, but they can get quite expensive with Exq-Mag quality.

don't know about "mana conservation". 0 interference is great. however, if you've max pack rat & on shade, you shouldn't be worrying about interference that much. Burden on the other hand can be a bit tricky.

So finally atfer some hours of sleep i've completed it, man what a lot of time at lesast i have 50000c

imo, i sucker & i did everything on Normal on the first try. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

anyway, congrats.

This post has been edited by malkatmp: May 24 2014, 16:41

So finally atfer some hours of sleep i've completed it, man what a lot of time at lesast i have 50000c

You get the 50k for beating it at any difficulty right? I know you get better drops at higher difficulty, but you could do it on normal mode for the 50k and come back after for better loots when you know the fights better. Or is there a bonus to doing an arena on higher difficulty the 1st time?

Edit:

assuming you're 2H+shade, imo, Slaughter one because of a lot more damage. though, you might want to buy a Exq-Mag Mace for 20-50k. Ethereal slaughter ones are nice & no burden = more evade/crit/speed/etc, but they can get quite expensive with Exq-Mag quality.

I've been running 2h+heavy (power where I can). I have been looking into light/shade since I have been finding a lot of it lately, but I would need to grind proficiencies for it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

This post has been edited by Numby: May 24 2014, 16:43

Niten Ichiryuu is not viable for several reasons:

One of them surely is NOT the rarity and level of the gear used. That's NOT a useful parameter to measure the viability of any style. High level gear for other styles makes them more effective, not "less sucky".

The problem is with the style itself. The crucial problems are:

The style doesn't even give you any proficiency. You have to play two other different styles to gain it. It makes you waste thrice the time.

The range of its attacks and Ability is narrow. It makes you kill stuff more slowly.

It lacks the ability to break the flow of a fight: you can't stun nor one-shot enemies.

The defense bonuses granted by Niten don't make up for its drawbacks.

I tested the above over and over, 'cos I actually like the basic idea behind Niten Ichiryu. It just doesn't work.

Ergo, Niten isn't viable.

I'm not sure why you are getting angry. Niten is definitely not the best style at the moment and the proficiency mechanics are broken, its possibly the worst melee style. Those are mostly an efficiency problems not completely a viability problem. Its a style that needs buffs and has some on the soontm list but that could be years from now.

In the end, playing 2H with the same katana and the same armor you'd use for Niten is more effective: you last longer, kill faster and can manage the occasional pinch with 2H abilities.

That's why there are only a few high level niten players left, mainly because its comparatively slower. There is a tendency in MMOs to see only the most effective styles as viable. 2H estoc is often more efficient despite the nerfs but except for high level players many people don't see estocs as viable.

There are a few weird things like from memory they nerfed skyward sword, but I am not sure why. In my opinion it would be better if it hit 10 enemies not five. I don't think anyone is arguing against buffing niten, I'm one of the people saying it should be buffed. However from my perspective any style that can be played with less budget than a mage is still technically viable, even if its not the most effective.

What set of proficiencies would make Niten more effective/viable? compared to the other styles?

I think part of the problem is that nobody is really making any suggestions to Tenboro in this area so the soontm time span is years instead of months.

For Niten I'd like the range of the skills increased or the cost/cooldown on skyward sword decreased.

Proficiencies to be fixed, but I haven't seen much discussion on what it should have. Niten was once one of the strongest styles not sure why it needed nerfs, every other style is more effective now.

One of them surely is NOT the rarity and level of the gear used. That's NOT a useful parameter to measure the viability of any style. High level gear for other styles makes them more effective, not "less sucky".

I am not sure about that in general. Mages can be terrible on pfudor after the resist nerfs and cast speed 'fix'/nerf. Mages need to get to certain threshold of damage output to be able to kill enemies before they stand a chance at higher difficulties, once you pass that threshold with your gear then it becomes effective. Exquisite gear on a mage isn't going to cut it. Most mage styles would be considered completely ineffective and non-viable if you didn't consider the gear requirements.

The problem with niten is that its not really a powerful style for high level players as much as it once was anymore. Its not the best for damage, not the best for defense, not the best for parry. I think the bleed changes, and changes to skyward sword from ages ago went a bit too far. Its a style that's stuck in the middle.

imo, i sucker & i did everything on Normal on the first try. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

anyway, congrats.

You get the 50k for beating it at any difficulty right? I know you get better drops at higher difficulty, but you could do it on normal mode for the 50k and come back after for better loots when you know the fights better. Or is there a bonus to doing an arena on higher difficulty the 1st time?

Yeah i should've do ti in normal, i started it a nightmare because it's pretty easy for me at other arenas

generally, 800k-1.2mil + another 1mil credits for forging. that's why i got VV instead. though, i've seen Mmax shield sold for 500k-800k in WTS these pass couple weeks. i guess they are scared of the update?

anyway, you can do the first 2 SG @PF with a Emax non-forged shield.

Around what level is reasonable to start doing SG @PF? I can probably do the first one on battletoads if I had the patience for it.

This post has been edited by Kazetenshi: May 24 2014, 17:00

Edit:
I've been running 2h+heavy (power where I can). I have been looking into light/shade since I have been finding a lot of it lately, but I would need to grind proficiencies for it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/anime_cry.gif)

2h Mace+heavy is okay, but i'd imagine it's too slow. also, heavy has too much interference which means you can't last as long in the arenas as 2H+shade or 1H+power (or even 1H+shade but you'll hv to buy &train everything from 0).

Around what level is reasonable to start doing SG @PF? I can probably do the first one on battletoads if I had the patience for it.

iirc, ~lvl315, but i'd imagine you can do it @lvl300 like simrock87. though, hving a weapon that does holy+demonic+void dmg & OFC is somewhat required for a reasonable time.

basically, Haste/SS/Protect/Heartseaker/Regen always on. skip SV+Sol to save mana. @rd55 for the first SG, stack 3PA => OFC, then repeat this for the next 55rds. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by malkatmp: May 24 2014, 17:08

I Niten for fun when I max out my proficiencies, it's fine if I do BT or lower level. It's tough on PF though. I don't have great gears but once you max out you proficiencies, it doesn't matter if you play with Niten, it doesn't affect your proficiencies.

2h Mace+heavy is okay, but i'd imagine it's too slow. also, heavy has too much interference which means you can't last as long in the arenas as 2H+shade or 1H+power (or even 1H+shade but you'll hv to buy &train everything from 0).

Yeah 2h mace+heavy is kind of slow, but it gives me a bit of survivability. The major downside that I have noticed is that I can't last too long in battle. After about 80 rounds I start to have mana issues (I need to train pack rat more) on low difficulties.

I used to think that shade only gave +evade, but now I see +damage and no interference. I was planning on just getting an ethereal weapon and power armors to cover that, but shade armor should cover that once I have the proficiencies for it. I'll give 2H+shade a shot. Thanks.

Yeah 2h mace+heavy is kind of slow, but it gives me a bit of survivability. The major downside that I have noticed is that I can't last too long in battle. After about 80 rounds I start to have mana issues (I need to train pack rat more) on low difficulties.

I used to think that shade only gave +evade, but now I see +damage and no interference. I was planning on just getting an ethereal weapon and power armors to cover that, but shade armor should cover that once I have the proficiencies for it. I'll give 2H+shade a shot. Thanks.

stun can provide lots of survivability. however, as a former Mace+shade user, i've found IWTBH+ difficulty with 6-7+ enemies a bit tough. also, Mace is generally good for stun & bad for dmg, but you can probably stay with 2H+shade for another 30-40lvls & switch later.

Shade has Evade & Heavy has Block. though, Shade also has Resist which is good against magic attack. Parry really depends on what you use. imo, currently the Safest style is 1H+Shade which has decent Evade/Block/Parry/Resist, but it can be slow.

Well, I think it depends on each person's target of battle, level and his budget (= gear) to think about it.
"Random encounter PFUDOR", "Leg. Item World PFUDOR" "DwD PFUDOR", "Hellfest", "IWBTHfest", and "PFUDORfest" might be the one of the most popular targets.
If you play HV for fun and go with low difficulty, all the play styles including Niten deserve consideration. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But if your target is "DwD PFUDOR" or even "PFUDORfest", 2H (for example) is very hard style to do it.
(I mean 'in reasonable gear' and 'in reasonable clear time'.) (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Cats Lover: May 24 2014, 17:50

another target = fastest daily arena clearing at low diffs (normal-hard)

just saying (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

but I think RE PFUDOR becomes available to everyone with leveling and getting all kind of debuffs available

if you have enough OP, niten is actually ok-ish. i've messed up a few times and accidentally left my niten shade set on (this katana + the waki & armor in my sig) for PFUDOR RE and managed to not die. pretty sure if i had a good ethereal katana with as much OP as mine i could take on a few arenas @PFUDOR. pure speculation though.

Question on amnesia shards, how do they work exactly? For example if i IW an item to level 1 and I don't get overpowered I can use one to get it back to 0, If I did get overpowered and then on level 2 didn't could I use one amenesia to get rid of that or do you have to use two to remove both of them.
Also idea = Price check thread (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Question on amnesia shards, how do they work exactly? For example if i IW an item to level 1 and I don't get overpowered I can use one to get it back to 0, If I did get overpowered and then on level 2 didn't could I use one amenesia to get rid of that or do you have to use two to remove both of them.
Also idea = Price check thread (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Required shard = potency level

Question on amnesia shards, how do they work exactly? For example if i IW an item to level 1 and I don't get overpowered I can use one to get it back to 0, If I did get overpowered and then on level 2 didn't could I use one amenesia to get rid of that or do you have to use two to remove both of them.
Also idea = Price check thread (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You need 2 shards to remove them both.

Edit: Amnesia uses for reset item potency to Lv.0

This post has been edited by arialinnoc: May 24 2014, 18:30

Balance suffix, increases accuarcy and critical, or just accuarcy?

Balance suffix, increases accuarcy and critical, or just accuarcy?

both, at the cost of lesser weapon damage (except power of balance)... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

This post has been edited by boulay: May 24 2014, 19:13

both

both, at the cost of lesser weapon damage...

No it doesn't, it just isn't slaughter which has bonus adb

This post has been edited by pervdiz: May 24 2014, 19:14