[X] My Assistant

Is 1h axe (and DW club/axe) that much less effective compared to rapier? It seems like I can go get a good Mag axe for less than what a typical Exq rapier goes for these days. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Also, a question about estoc. Is there a point where it would be feasible to use it over the more safe and conventional mace?

1h axe and 1h rapier both have similar clear speed, except in SG. Axe is slightly faster when OFCing, Rapier is slightly faster when OFC is on cooldown. However Rapier starts to shine when you have to use skill.

Is 1h axe (and DW club/axe) that much less effective compared to rapier? It seems like I can go get a good Mag axe for less than what a typical Exq rapier goes for these days. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Also, a question about estoc. Is there a point where it would be feasible to use it over the more safe and conventional mace?

1h axe and 1h rapier both have similar clear speed, except in SG. Axe is slightly faster when OFCing, Rapier is slightly faster when OFC is on cooldown. However Rapier starts to shine when you have to use skill.

Why not Axe mainhand + Rapier offhand? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Btw a little question regarding Spike Shield.
Which of the four is the best for Light melee, any idea?
I'm using Storm Spike Shield(10% miss chance) now thinking that it could sync with Veil and my natural EVD from Light armors.

This post has been edited by kos9494: Apr 30 2014, 05:04

Why not Axe mainhand + Rapier offhand? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Btw a little question regarding Spike Shield.
Which of the four is the best for Light melee, any idea?
I'm using Storm Spike Shield(10% miss chance) now thinking that it could sync with Veil and my natural EVD from Light armors.

Because my idea is to see if I can replace rapier with axe in my sets without sacrificing too much efficiency. Besides, club is so sweet when used with DW.

I used to use Storm as DW for the reasons you mentioned. Frost is also good since the slowing effect is static and doesn't rely on chance like the other status effects.

This post has been edited by Caia: Apr 30 2014, 05:20

Sir etothex, master of Niten Ichiryuu!!! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
-bows down-

So between Balance and Nimble Wakizashi which would you suggest? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
And is it viable if I chose Shade over Power/Plate for that?

balance. Niten doesn't get +50% parry bonus like DW, so if you forge a good balance waki (legendary non-eth can be had for like 250k, and ethereal is non-issue if you feather an IWed elemental), it will perform as well as a good nimble, unless you've got a really awesome nimble waki. Shade probably isn't too good for the later rounds (again til you've reached some plateau of hp/defense/ uber forged gear). You might avoid a lot of damage, but you simply take too much damage when you don't avoid it. I'll try it out sometime, once I've gotten a bit more work on my shade set. Remember that shade+leather doesn't work like plate+power does, so adjustments aren't easy.

Oh, much faster than my trial with niten set, like this: (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) you trying to make me jealous? cuz i totally am (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Don't see how that build wouldn't be fast as sin. I know your ping is not the best, but well try it w/ mouse-melee or something, and use skyward sword when you start having to cure maybe (and use the skill hotkey script).

too hard /cluttered to address all the previous posts but about hellfest.

I've only ever finished with 1h/ofc cuz it's just too much easier. It took me 2hr 10 min (130 min). BUT you guys dont' understand how to use 2h/niten. The plateau of making it achieavable is just really high. 1h is just so simple, throw on some unforged stuff and have at it. For 2h/niten you need some good defense, and you need something like 80% pmi to comfortably Spirit stance the whole way probably, and need scrolls and shards. You're supposed to make up the damage from not being in spirit stance the whole time by killing much quicker (aoe) while in spirit stance. You also use skills in later rounds to Kill 5 mobs in as few turns as possible, allowing you to mop up the rest of the mobs w/ less worry about health. And this is hellfest, you faceroll (ie don't target same mob), parry is not an issue.

So I attempted hellfest just now, w/ my niten set. Normal build is leg power/protect helm +rest slaughter (don't have a good slaughter helm), which won't cut it obviously for festing. Having no clue where to start, threw on all my best defensive armor and sharded for 2hrs. (have no good sabs meh)
lookit this shitty Attack:

my normal gear gives me 7044 attack. Katana is IWed, but unforged, waki is forged for offhand strike and some parry/crit. whereas the 1h set I used for hellfest is leg power protect helm, shield legs, rest slaughter. ~6000 attack /w axe. (~6400 normal setup). Again, takes ~130 min. Also this set isn't really iwed, so few potencies. My power 1h/set has awesome holy resist, the posted set 0.

Results:

107 min, for pure defensive trial, and there was a shit ton of lag, even on alt. server. Up to @600 was straight spirit stance through. Then used protect scrolls when not in stance, then remembered to try Skyward Sword @800. 2 heroic mana potion. 1 greater spirit potion. Killed fast enough for gems to keep me healthy. Lot of curing in the 600-800 til i switched to Skyward Sword. Didn't need scrolls then either, til OC requirements ran out.

I think I might try just 76% pmi (switch out hands and feet for slaughter) as that would give me 6k damage, which would probably make a noticeable difference when skyward swording. 2h is definitely harder, (except mace maybe, i'd have to borrow one to experiment) with its lower parry, lower accuracy, lower crit, and lower chance of anti-parry. I'll wait til I'm higher level to bother w/ estoc/ scythe.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

saving these notes for later. though, don't hv the credits to niten yet. your setup just looks very sweet.

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
saving these notes for later. though, don't hv the credits to niten yet. your setup just looks very sweet.

Actually, I do have a pair of [en.wikipedia.org] "tenkuu no daishō" in my inventory...

That aside, IWed my phase armor again... in Hell difficulty (in 1H Phase no less). I barely won thanks to OFC and a little tactical adjustment... but I've spent both my Last Elixirs for it...

This post has been edited by LostLogia4: Apr 30 2014, 05:59

Why not Axe mainhand + Rapier offhand? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Because Club + Rapier is better (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Because my idea is to see if I can replace rapier with axe in my sets without sacrificing too much efficiency. Besides, club is so sweet when used with DW.

I used to use Storm as DW for the reasons you mentioned. Frost is also good since the slowing effect is static and doesn't rely on chance like the other status effects.

Shock seems good for PF to neutralize that shitty evade of mobs I guess?

balance. Niten doesn't get +50% parry bonus like DW, so if you forge a good balance waki (legendary non-eth can be had for like 250k, and ethereal is non-issue if you feather an IWed elemental), it will perform as well as a good nimble, unless you've got a really awesome nimble waki. Shade probably isn't too good for the later rounds (again til you've reached some plateau of hp/defense/ uber forged gear). You might avoid a lot of damage, but you simply take too much damage when you don't avoid it. I'll try it out sometime, once I've gotten a bit more work on my shade set. Remember that shade+leather doesn't work like plate+power does, so adjustments aren't easy.
(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) you trying to make me jealous? cuz i totally am (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Don't see how that build wouldn't be fast as sin. I know your ping is not the best, but well try it w/ mouse-melee or something, and use skyward sword when you start having to cure maybe (and use the skill hotkey script).

I'd believe he'd be 10 times faster using his mage setup. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
Anyway, nice guide, nice guide. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
Niten is so obscure yet you manage to dig the potential out of it. Mind if I mention you in my sig? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Actually, I do have a pair of [en.wikipedia.org] "tenkuu no daishō" in my inventory...

That aside, IWed my phase armor again... in Hell difficulty (in 1H Phase no less). I barely won thanks to OFC and a little tactical adjustment... but I've spent both my Last Elixirs for it...

How long do you take to complete one IW? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Because Club + Rapier is better (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

That higher raw damage from Axes give a pump to skills, though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by kos9494: Apr 30 2014, 06:22

How long do you take to complete one IW? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Half an hour. DWing in IW Nightmare shaves off only 10 min, but the difficulties were skies apart. Heck, I remember IWing in mage setup and somehow won... this ought to be the most pyrrhic IW clearance I had so far, as I've pretty much spent every potions and elixirs for it. Must've be insufficient spirit potions slotted in, otherwise I can just OFC my way through.

Not to mention, I met the "In Memory of Dark Mages" more often than I liked. among other monsters, the shit's hit my ass like a tsunami.

This post has been edited by LostLogia4: Apr 30 2014, 07:28

I'd believe he'd be 10 times faster using his mage setup. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
Anyway, nice guide, nice guide. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
Niten is so obscure yet you manage to dig the potential out of it. Mind if I mention you in my sig? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

That higher raw damage from Axes give a pump to skills, though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

I don't mind.

Well axe/rapier isn't nice for pfudor and when i try it on other difficulties club is just better because:
you can't target some other mob to avoid parry hijinks and get splash damage.
Club gives you offense + defense with stun. Someone w/ Overpower 5 on main hand axe and offhand might be able to ignore all the parries, but other than RoB, I think the extra damage isn't as nice as stun. Bleed has problems as it is now too, w/ action speed, turns, and stacks mechanics.

This post has been edited by etothex: Apr 30 2014, 07:33

I don't mind.

Well axe/rapier isn't nice for pfudor and when i try it on other difficulties club is just better because:
you can't target some other mob to avoid parry hijinks and get splash damage.
Club gives you offense + defense with stun. Someone w/ Overpower 5 on main hand axe and offhand might be able to ignore all the parries, but other than RoB, I think the extra damage isn't as nice as stun. Bleed has problems as it is now too, w/ action speed, turns, and stacks mechanics.

Just when I put so much effort to IW-ing my Axe... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

Just when I put so much effort to IW-ing my Axe... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

That's why I was wondering about club/axe as opposed to axe/rapier. While damage output will probably be lower overall I don't see why it would be entirely unviable.

That's why I was wondering about club/axe as opposed to axe/rapier. While damage output will probably be lower overall I don't see why it would be entirely unviable.

I don't know if Club/Axe is really viable since Axe really doesn't give any parry so the parry bonus of DW is totally wasted nor it gives good accuracy for better offhand strike chance but just shit tons of ADB. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Axe/Club of Nimble seems viable but it's impossible to reach 100%, so you don't often get that stun from a club to proc. Club of Balance? There we go back to same situation as using Axe as offhand. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Axe/Rapier is actually very good if you have high OP and if you're not doing PF. On BT difficulty, when using Frenzied Blow, my Axe can do ~30k (~50k if crit.) per hit on gc00018's gayish mobs but my Club can only do like ~20k (40k if crit.) on them. It takes 2 or more hits to kill a mob when using my Club too.
Maybe my Axe is a little too strong but I'd say that Axe deals like ~15% more damage than a Club of the same standard.

Club/Rapier might be the best and the most efficient combo for now seeing how Sir something and Sir etothex are using it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by kos9494: Apr 30 2014, 09:00

I don't know if Club/Axe is really viable since Axe really doesn't give any parry so the parry bonus of DW is totally wasted nor it gives good accuracy for better offhand strike chance but just shit tons of ADB. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Axe/Club of Nimble seems viable but it's impossible to reach 100%, so you don't often get that stun from a club to proc. Club of Balance? There we go back to same situation as using Axe as offhand. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Axe/Rapier is actually very good if you have high OP and if you're not doing PF. On BT difficulty, when using Frenzied Blow, my Axe can do ~30k (~50k if crit.) per hit on gc00018's gayish mobs but my Club can only do like ~20k (40k if crit.) on them. It takes 2 or more hits to kill a mob when using my Club too.
Maybe my Axe is a little too strong but I'd say that Axe deals like ~15% more damage than a Club of the same standard.

Club/Rapier might be the best and the most efficient combo for now seeing how Sir something and Sir etothex are using it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You raise some valid points. I've just remembered brewdonkey uses axe/club though, as advertised in his sig. I might ask him about it.

Club/rapier is widely accepted as the best combination since PFUDOR is the only difficulty that matters. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif) If you don't care so much about PFUDORing all the time, there are plenty of weapon combinations that can work decently.

5 buffs - Protection, Haste, Spirit Shield, Regen, Heartseeker.
From 1 to 1000 round

wow, but I seriously doubt I have the mana even with max pack rat to sustain all 4 spells(HS only when channeling) for 1k round.

i'd imagine Club/Rapier is preferred, because of:
1) Stun + Parry is safe.
2) a forged Rapier of Balance can hv 100% off hand hit chance, also, higher parry roll on a Rapier which is doubled on DW.

Club/Axe is not that safe. about the same amount of Stun, but no parry on Axe & half dmg Axe.

Axe/Club might be better. higher dmg with some parry with club. but you stun less. say 80% offhand @25% stun = 20% stun.

though, i'd imagine a full-on berserker style Axe/Axe + leg leather can be fun on anything lower than PF. Axe/Axe for a lot of dmg. Leather for safety. high PMI/MMI, high damage mitigation, high Resist, high elemental mitigation & some evade. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

This post has been edited by malkatmp: Apr 30 2014, 09:50

i'd imagine Club/Rapier is preferred, because of:
1) Stun + Parry is safe.
2) a forged Rapier of Balance can hv 100% off hand hit chance, also, higher parry roll on a Rapier which is doubled on DW.

Club/Axe is not that safe. about the same amount of Stun, but no parry on Axe & half dmg Axe.

Axe/Club might be better. higher dmg with some parry with club. but you stun less. say 80% offhand @25% stun = 20% stun.

though, i'd imagine a full-on berserker style Axe/Axe + leg leather can be fun on anything lower than PF. Axe/Axe for a lot of dmg. Leather for safety. high PMI/MMI, high damage mitigation, high Resist, high elemental mitigation & some evade. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Might as well go nuts all-out with Axe/Axe + Savage Power of Slaughter 4PABs-...
-Oh wait, you tested it out and it didn't work too well. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Do monsters get mitigation from END and AGI like us?

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Monster_Stats

This post has been edited by LOL50015: Apr 30 2014, 10:19

Might as well go nuts all-out with Axe/Axe + Savage Power of Slaughter 4PABs-...
-Oh wait, you tested it out and it didn't work too well. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

i think the problem with Axe/Axe + Power Slaughter is not enough protection. 0% evade/block makes things too dangerous & high burden makes longer rds (ie 20) almost impossible.

hence, i think Axe/Axe Leather might work. hm... ...i guess i'll put money where mouth is & give it a try.

though, how does actually resist works? i've read the wiki & i'm still confused. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

does 50% resist means i'll get 50% success rolls & i'll get 1/3 even chance of 50/75/90% damage miti?

This post has been edited by malkatmp: Apr 30 2014, 12:03

though, how does actually resist works? i've read the wiki & i'm still confused. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

does 50% resist means i'll get 50% success rolls & i'll get 1/3 even chance of 50/75/90% damage miti?

i have a doubt too...
sometimes i read something like '2000 damage (50% resisted)' and i get killed if i have 1500HP.
what does it mean? that the original shot was 4000 and my armor already mitigated half? or i took it in an arm instead on the head so it naturally does less damage? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)