[X] My Assistant

Same, used to be 2H estoc and axe/rapier, then mace and club/rapier, now I just stick with rapier/shield.

I gave up on DW since it's even slower than 1H in marathon, since 1H gains overcharge much faster, thus allowing me to use skills more often. And the counter is great for clearing mobs while I'm focusing on the schoolgirls (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Though I've been 1H Heavy user and stuck to it since 0 level,
(because I love 1 handed weapon and shield style on any other RPGs, too. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif))
DW Light is faster than 1H Heavy on marathon at least.
FYI, my 1H Heavy set is comprised of forged leg weapon + forged leg shield + forged leg~mag power set,
while DW Light set is comprised of non-forged mag weapons + non-forged exq shade set. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Cats Lover: Jan 28 2014, 02:59

Don't overestimate the direct damage output from counter. Countering hardly do a number when you are playing on PF; my counter (with a rapier) does about 6-10k damage normally and usually mobs on PF have over 50k HP.

What the shield does for 1H is precisely this: Giving your armor leeway in term of defense so that you can stack on more damage. It's different to 2H heavy, because for 2H, it's more like getting as much PMI from armor as possible while increasing damage through upgrading weapon. Surely for new players of both style, 1H is easier to get going and requires less first time investment. But that doesn't mean 1H will perform as well as 2H in a hugely forged equips scenario either. I don't yet have the mean to test this myself, so I'm anxiously waiting to see Ichy getting a rapier and dumping his 100 slaughter binding on it.
Someone give Ichy a forge-worthy rapier! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I can say this much:

For PFUDOR random encounters - 1HH is the best. For arenas - anything over 12 or so rounds and anything where the number of mobs per round is 4+, 2HH is better (mace being preferred in my opinion - because I don't have a good eth estoc yet.)

Wow, so many posts since I last checked *wall of text*

Anyway, good to know that DW shade has the potential to outperform 2H other than in schoolgirls, before that I had though 2H was the way to go for most situations because all the pro players use estocs and you guys said a lot of good things about 2H.

However, I admit a nice ethereal club is really hard to find, even harder than a waki that's supposed to be rare.

This post has been edited by LOL50015: Jan 28 2014, 03:38

It's almost always 'the more powerful, the better'. The primary target is to kill before being killed.

So no one has tried to calculate peak mana efficiency? I bet skillchip knows.

How do you calculate how much exp is required to salvage a gear?

since different gear with different stats need different amount of materials.

Though I've been 1H Heavy user and stuck to it since 0 level,
(because I love 1 handed weapon and shield style on any other RPGs, too. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif))
DW Light is faster than 1H Heavy on marathon at least.
FYI, my 1H Heavy set is comprised of forged leg weapon + forged leg shield + forged leg~mag power set,
while DW Light set is comprised of non-forged mag weapons + non-forged exq shade set. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

So I can assume from your post that DW heavy is a big no?

About 1H — Again, I would like to point out (especially for newer player) :

1H only work well on higher level

Also, there is 1, and ONLY 1 reason why 1H is borderline broken compared to other style— the generous overcharge regain mechanic ... Now, try imagine 1H without it or give other style something similar (for example, you get extra OC when you proc domino or offhand strike) ...

... suddenly, everything else seem a lot more usable, don't you think. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Jan 28 2014, 05:41

So I can assume from your post that DW heavy is a big no?

DW Heavy may be also worth considering. It depends on each person. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
But I think DW's strong points are high critical chance and high attack speed (and 3-tier skill),
and they are fit with Light better than Heavy.

DW Heavy may be also worth considering. It depends on each person. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
But I think DW's strong points are high critical chance and high attack speed (and 3-tier skill),
and they are fit with Light better than Heavy.

DW heavy just doesn't work for me. Not enough defense, mana use is too high, and overcharge gain isn't as fast as 1H to spam special skills.

About 1H — Again, I would like to point out (especially for newer player) :
Also, there is 1, and ONLY 1 reason why 1H is borderline broken compared to other style— the generous overcharge regain mechanic ... Now, try imagine 1H without it or give other style something similar (for example, you get extra OC when you proc domino or offhand strike) ...

... suddenly, everything else seem a lot more usable, don't you think. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That's what I feel too, the more skills you have, the better 1h becomes with its super fast OC gain. Its innate skills are already awesome for boss killing. I can't wait to get OFC to spam the shit out of it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by holy_demon: Jan 28 2014, 06:36

So no one has tried to calculate peak mana efficiency? I bet skillchip knows.

'peak mana efficiency' may not anywhere close to 'peak rounds per second' - ex. in most situations fleeing can be better than focusing for cashflow.

I don't know anything from Light Armor except the draw words. So I think this may be the best piece of equipment I've ever had drop. Anyone care to tell me what shameful sum this may be worth?

tested this some time back on Kodou Yuuki. Averaged 16 turns w/ axe, 10 w/ rapier. PA is king for higher dificulty / not top levels.


unless something's changed, perma-spirit should be +100% not +50%. You're used to 1h's built in PFUDOR coping mechanisms so 2h comparatively sucks.

Yuki isn't exactly average monster....

But for perma-spirit compared to 2h, it is not like 2h doesn't use spirit stance- in fact, it mainly does since it's skill tree is not great. Also, gaining OC in spirit stance - so you're looking at somewhere between +75% damage(unrealistic, requires no casts/parries/evades in stance) to minimum +50% damage compared to just normal attacks for 2h - the latter figure being where I think the +50% might have come from. In any case, overall it means just about 100%/1.5 to 100%/1.75 additional damage multiplier on 1H.

dragonandon: Eh, while can't be brothered to do deep evaluation, Exq shade is usually not over few hundred k, ever(technically, that is mostly mag range already tbh).

About 1H — Again, I would like to point out (especially for newer player) :
Also, there is 1, and ONLY 1 reason why 1H is borderline broken compared to other style— the generous overcharge regain mechanic ... Now, try imagine 1H without it or give other style something similar (for example, you get extra OC when you proc domino or offhand strike) ...

... suddenly, everything else seem a lot more usable, don't you think. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

so what's the recommended LV for 1H? (300lv +?)

so what's the recommended LV for 1H? (300lv +?)

I'm doing decently on Hell half-hourlies with 1h training it up... I also do the first few Arenas on Hell or Nintendo with 1h.

Then again, I prefer to play it safe. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm doing decently on Hell half-hourlies with 1h training it up... I also do the first few Arenas on Hell or Nintendo with 1h.

Then again, I prefer to play it safe. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

hm... ... interesting. though, shouldn't you be able to do the first few on PFUDOR?

i'm currently 2H with light armor (saving towards shade set) and here's my arena page:

I don't know anything from Light Armor except the draw words. So I think this may be the best piece of equipment I've ever had drop. Anyone care to tell me what shameful sum this may be worth?

The Shadowdancer suffix will add value to an otherwise mundane shade equipment, 50 ~ 100k.

How do you calculate how much exp is required to salvage a gear?

since different gear with different stats need different amount of materials.

You don't need any forging experience to salvage gear, just that someone with max experience will regain 90% of the mats vs 80% for the inexperienced (rounded down). The difference between forging an Exquisite vs a Legendary gear, the Legendary will require all HG mat while Exquisite will need LG and MG mats (at the beginning), the bindings required for either gear remain constant. Thus you will get back between 80~90% of the mats and bindings depending on your forging experience.

so what's the recommended LV for 1H? (300lv +?)

I don't see any reason why you couldn't run 1H at low levels. But that said... it might be faster to run other setups at lower levels due to...

1.) Limited spirit pool.
2.) Lower parry/shield block rate (due to level scaling and likely limited access to gear although this might be a non-issue due to monsters having less overall chaos upgrades).
3.) Lower max counters per round.
4.) Lower counter attack rate due to lower proficiency/str/dex.

Least, those are the first few things that pop up to me which would all result in lower damage output/kill speeds. Then again, damage output is lower across the board at lower levels (eg. Domino strikes hits less targets at lower proficiency/level, etc). I'd imagine its probably good enough at lv 200+ (which is when you can get access to the third counter/turn assuming your proficiency is capped).

But... that said, I honestly don't know when its comparable/better than other styles at lower levels without actually trying it out at lower levels.

so what's the recommended LV for 1H? (300lv +?)

"When you begin to feel like you're not doing well" is the best answer I can give you right now... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

This usually happen when high chaos'ed/PL monster start to appeared en mass, which from what I've seen so far, I would guess that it would be somewhere around 280-300+; others might be able to give you more info on this though. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

@ rancidmeat

Apart from what you've mentioned, the biggest reason is that there really is no need for it at lower level since other style still work well.