[X] My Assistant

Does anyone know approximately how much it would cost to pay someone to IW a Legendary Staff with PXP of 350 to level 10. Also how many rounds would be likely to get level 5 conservation. One person told me around 10m off the top of their head but it would help if people could tell me the full formula, stores seem to be quoting 25-35 credits per exp.

You should need around 14k PXP per run from lv.0 to lv.9, so you'd need around 400k per run.

Now assuming that there are 5 potencies and there's equal chance to obtain each potency (which isn't correct but should be close), there should be around
-> 9C5 * 0.2^5 * 0.8^4 ~ 1.65% chance to get econ 5, which leads to around 60 runs and thus around 24M credits.

However, you can apply tricks to lower the price, like premature reset (reset when you don't get at least econ 2 after lv.4). This should reduce your chance to get econ 5 in terms or runs but should also decrease your average cost per run.
Skipping some maths, you should get at least econ 2 after lv.4 18% of the time, but you'll need 100 runs on average (including those without econ 2) so you'll need something like
100 * (0.82 * 70k + 0.18 * 400k) ~ 13M

Now if you add in additional rules like resetting if you don't get at least econ 4 after lv.7, the same would apply: more runs on average, less cost per run. There should be a balance but the maths would probably become too complicated. Of course, I hope my maths is correct. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
P.S. Now I'm quite sure my math's off a bit, but that shouldn't affect the overall theory.

This post has been edited by varst: Jan 6 2014, 14:27

My ultimate lifetime goal is to be able to earn 500k per day with a maximum 2 hours spent on grinding.

+1

So everything's been fine for me and all and for a moderate period of time I was happy and comfortable and all.

But now I have some money problems, currently I earn 150k per day solely from grinding and I'm thinking of improving it, problem is to maintain such a high daily income it is costing me a lot of stamina and at this rate, I'll probably be <20 stamina in no time.

Do you think energy drink is worth it?
And after arena, which is more profitable, GF or IW?

My ultimate lifetime goal is to be able to earn 500k per day with a maximum 2 hours spent on grinding.

non-expert opinion incoming:
imo energy drinks aren't worth it if all you're doing is daily arena runs. they're worth even less if you don't have great stamina.

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/stamina#Stamina_Usage

1 ed = 22-25k = 1000 rounds w/ normal stamina = 200 rounds w/ great stamina = not playing for 12 hours

GF isn't worth it without crystarium if all you want is credits since you can leave with 3-5 crystal packs(i think) if you manage to survive. afaik, GF and IW have the same credit drops

TL;DR if you want to reach your goal asap get crystarium, but not till you're strong enough to ~900 rounds of hellfest.

still TL;DR: level 330-350

This post has been edited by something: Jan 6 2014, 15:46

You should need around 14k PXP per run from lv.0 to lv.9, so you'd need around 400k per run.

Now assuming that there are 5 potencies and there's equal chance to obtain each potency (which isn't correct but should be close), there should be around
-> 9C5 * 0.2^5 * 0.8^4 ~ 1.65% chance to get econ 5, which leads to around 60 runs and thus around 24M credits.

However, you can apply tricks to lower the price, like premature reset (reset when you don't get at least econ 2 after lv.4). This should reduce your chance to get econ 5 in terms or runs but should also decrease your average cost per run.
Skipping some maths, you should get at least econ 2 after lv.4 18% of the time, but you'll need 100 runs on average (including those without econ 2) so you'll need something like
100 * (0.82 * 70k + 0.18 * 400k) ~ 13M

Now if you add in additional rules like resetting if you don't get at least econ 4 after lv.7, the same would apply: more runs on average, less cost per run. There should be a balance but the maths would probably become too complicated. Of course, I hope my maths is correct. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
P.S. Now I'm quite sure my math's off a bit, but that shouldn't affect the overall theory.

edit:The following information is outdated:
Assuming that trials are independent, your base value is correct, however, sometime ago, I remember reading something that said that the choice is biased towards picking potencies that already exists (so if you have Archmage 1, you are more likely to get Archmage 2 than the default 20%).


Assuming that it is not true, refer to the following table:

The green cell: At potency level 0, you have level 0 conservation and a 1.65% chance to get it by level 9.
The red cell: At potency level 4, if you have conservation level 1, you have only a .65% chance of getting it by level 9.
Use the rest of the table to see other cases.

[www.mediafire.com] Click here to download spreadsheet (to check for errors)

Also I just realised it's called 'economiser' not 'conservation', not corrected due to laziness.

edit: Edit, update accurate version is here.

This post has been edited by m118w11: Jan 7 2014, 10:19

GF isn't worth it without crystarium if all you want is credits since you can leave with 3-5 crystal packs(i think) if you manage to survive. afaik, GF and IW have the same credit drops

According to the wiki page

For every monster kill, there is both the usual chance of a normal drop as well as an equal chance of a crystal drop

If I understand it correctly, each monster in GF can give you BOTH the normal drop and crystal drop.

So if you get up to 3 crys pack from 1000 round of IW, you can get up to 6 crys pack in GF, other crys bonus notwitstanding, which will increase that number even more

Thank you varst and m118w11, that's pretty interesting. You could optimise somewhat if they could follow the rules

Reset if not econ 2 by level 3, if not econ 3 by level 5 and not econ 4 by level 7.

hmmm interesting.

So basically stacking evade/block is more efficient for grindfest than stacking pmi/mmi, is that right?

In my opinion, both PMI and other physical defenses (Evade/Block/Parry) are equally important. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And some hath perks (Vigorous Vitality, Innate Arcana and Resplendent Regeneration) are also very helpful.

Once you have a good amount of PMI/MMI, getting more only saves you spirit, and only a little bit based on how spirit shield's spirit cost is calculated (linear with a upper cap). But both block and evade (and parry/resist) both reduces damage and saves you spirit*.

*this only applies when the damage taken is very high, such as high level grindfests or PFUDOR, at lower levels, PMI is better because there is less variance.

Stacking one of the defensive stats is not a good idea, you need to diversify. Due to the the multiplicative way defensive stats work, the more you get, the less effective it is to get more. Getting 10% Block at 0% means you'll get a flat 10%, getting 10% block at 50% means you'll only raise it by 5%. Diversifying will almost always be better than stacking, though again due to multiplicative nature you should wear one big defensive stat on a single equipment rather than small bonuses on multiple pieces of gear.

According to the wiki page
If I understand it correctly, each monster in GF can give you BOTH the normal drop and crystal drop.

So if you get up to 3 crys pack from 1000 round of IW, you can get up to 6 crys pack in GF, other crys bonus notwitstanding, which will increase that number even more

IW 1000 rounds is not comparable with GF 1000 round.
Because GF has additional crystal drop bonus and increased amount of crystal, that 3 times of the normal at about round 500.

http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Grindfest
Crystal Drops
The number of crystals dropped increases with the number of rounds played. This caps at round 500 at 3x the normal amount.
The formula for crystals dropped is as follows:

Crystal Drop = rounddown(((0.004 * round_number) + 1) * difficulty_mod * crys_perk_mod)

So you should proceed as far as you can beyond round 500 for maximize income of crystal when doing GF. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
FYI I can earn 2.2~2.4 crystal packs per 1 Hellfest run with Scavenger 50/50 and Crys3.
And just 0.7~0.8 crystal packs if I flee at 500 round.

Thank you varst and m118w11, that's pretty interesting. You could optimise somewhat if they could follow the rules

Reset if not econ 2 by level 3, if not econ 3 by level 5 and not econ 4 by level 7.

hmmm interesting.

The proper and shortest way to get a certain potency to lv5 is:
skill LV2 @ LV2, if not -> reset;
skill LV3 @ LV3, if not -> reset;
skill LV4 @ LV4, if not -> reset;
skill LV5 @ LV5, if not -> reset.

The proper and shortest way to get a certain potency to lv5 is:
skill LV2 @ LV2, if not -> reset;
skill LV3 @ LV3, if not -> reset;
skill LV4 @ LV4, if not -> reset;
skill LV5 @ LV5, if not -> reset.

The odds of getting Economizer 5 that way is probably smaller than 0.1%.
I would be satiesfied with potency 3@ lvl4 and 4@ lvl6.

@m118w11
@EsotericSatire
@Colman
@Oversoul

Problem is, the following assumptions are incorrect:
-> trials are independent
-> the probability's binomial

The whole IW thing is path-dependent (i.e. what you'd do and the resulting probability). So guess what, I wrote a small excel VBA just to simulate the whole process.
Right now it still lacks
-> the ability to calculate PXP according to potency (picking PXP = 350's number for now)
-> the ability to account for the exact amount of IW PXP per run

But the results are interesting:
1. The average number of runs is less than 1/0.0165~60, which is expected.
2. Econ 2 by lv. 3 followed by Econ 3 by lv. 5 seems to be the most efficient choice in terms of both PXP cost and amnesia cost.
4. Contrary to common belief, econ 4 by lv.7 would only increase the amount of amnesia needed while the PXP cost's unchanged.

I'm still perfecting the code so wait till it's finished. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by varst: Jan 6 2014, 18:11

Problem is, the following assumptions are incorrect:
-> trials are independent
-> the probability's binomial

I have a feeling that the chance of getting Lv2 - 5 potency is higher than LV1 potency. However, it is just my gut feeling that without any statistical proof.
So, I mostly keep the weapon have only a single type of potency when I want to obtain Lv5 in something.

Also, I have some experience of failing to obtain LV5 in something after I got LV4@LV4. The Longsword 2 in my signature is one of the example for that, which is IWed recently.

This post has been edited by Colman: Jan 6 2014, 18:40

Was reading the wiki and found the following:

Ways to Affect EXP Gains
Posting in the forums
One post per day is sufficient to be considered active
+5% per post?
Maximum +100%?
Duration 30 Days

Is it really so? Never knew about it. If this is true, then I do not quite understand the part about the duration of 30 days.

I don't get it, why don't you just go straight for focus staves if you want econ so badly? :/

Was reading the wiki and found the following:

Ways to Affect EXP Gains
Posting in the forums
One post per day is sufficient to be considered active
+5% per post?
Maximum +100%?
Duration 30 Days

Is it really so? Never knew about it. If this is true, then I do not quite understand the part about the duration of 30 days.

yeah its true, I noticed the amount of experience I get at dawn of a new day increases for each posting in the forums, it started at only about 450 to 500 experience, and yesterday it was 11,365 exp. So yes posting does effect exp gain at the dawn event. it also effects mod power lvl as well, but that takes longer to notice.

Was reading the wiki and found the following:

Ways to Affect EXP Gains
Posting in the forums
One post per day is sufficient to be considered active
+5% per post?
Maximum +100%?
Duration 30 Days

Is it really so? Never knew about it. If this is true, then I do not quite understand the part about the duration of 30 days.

Okay, here's how it works.

If you're just starting and you make 20 posts in 1 day, then you get the maximum bonus of +100% xp. So a monster kill normally worth 500 xp would be worth 1,000 xp to you. If your stamina is over 80, then you get another 100% bonus to xp, meaning the kill would be worth 1,500 xp to you. If you only made 1 post, then you would only get a +5% bonus... or +25xp on a 500 xp kill.

I am not certain if the difficulty level bonus is added to the other bonuses, or multiplied (I've never bothered checking).

Example: Hell difficulty is x6. So a monster normally worth 500 xp would be worth 3,000 xp. If the bonus stacks, then having 20 posts & over 80 Stamina would mean that the monster would be worth 9,000 xp. If the bonus does not stack, then the monster would be worth 4,000 xp.

Now... if you didn't post ever again, then after 30 days your "posting bonus" would go away. However, if you post once per day then every time a post would be older than 30 days (and "expire" for the purposes of the bonus), you would already have replaced it with a new one.

In other words, as long as you make 20-30 posts a month, you'll always have the maximum "posting bonus" to your xp.

Option 1 is cheaper and will net you more bindings overall, but you'll only receive low/mid grade materials in return. Option 2 is more expensive, you'll get better stuff, but less often, morale drain is also lower.

Do monsters get bindings independingly on their PL? *Like no matter what PL or other monster stat is it's the same chance to get the binding each day, right?

This post has been edited by Owyn: Jan 6 2014, 22:21

Okay, here's how it works.

If you're just starting and you make 20 posts in 1 day, then you get the maximum bonus of +100% xp. So a monster kill normally worth 500 xp would be worth 1,000 xp to you. If your stamina is over 80, then you get another 100% bonus to xp, meaning the kill would be worth 1,500 xp to you. If you only made 1 post, then you would only get a +5% bonus... or +25xp on a 500 xp kill.

I am not certain if the difficulty level bonus is added to the other bonuses, or multiplied (I've never bothered checking).

Example: Hell difficulty is x6. So a monster normally worth 500 xp would be worth 3,000 xp. If the bonus stacks, then having 20 posts & over 80 Stamina would mean that the monster would be worth 9,000 xp. If the bonus does not stack, then the monster would be worth 4,000 xp.

Now... if you didn't post ever again, then after 30 days your "posting bonus" would go away. However, if you post once per day then every time a post would be older than 30 days (and "expire" for the purposes of the bonus), you would already have replaced it with a new one.

In other words, as long as you make 20-30 posts a month, you'll always have the maximum "posting bonus" to your xp.

Thank you for a clear explanation, it seems that is the main cause of all spam threads. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I have a feeling that the chance of getting Lv2 - 5 potency is higher than LV1 potency. However, it is just my gut feeling that without any statistical proof.
So, I mostly keep the weapon have only a single type of potency when I want to obtain Lv5 in something.

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes there's a bonus for existing potency to repeat themselves, but the bonus shouldn't be that huge.

I don't get it, why don't you just go straight for focus staves if you want econ so badly? :/

Cause the damage lost can't be compensated. Think about it: a destruction staff gives around 60% more MDB than a focus staff. Even with arch 5, the MDB bonus on focus staff is only around 10%. At the same time, you can IW an destruction staff to get the same amount of MC as the max bonus a focus staff can give. So you get a bit more accuracy but lose a significant amount of damage output.

If you're just starting and you make 20 posts in 1 day, then you get the maximum bonus of +100% xp. So a monster kill normally worth 500 xp would be worth 1,000 xp to you. If your stamina is over 80, then you get another 100% bonus to xp, meaning the kill would be worth 1,500 xp to you. If you only made 1 post, then you would only get a +5% bonus... or +25xp on a 500 xp kill.

The line about posting is ABSOLUTELY incorrect. One post per day should be enough to give you the 'active' status, and you need 20 days of 'active' status in a 30-day window, not 20 posts in a day.

This post has been edited by varst: Jan 6 2014, 21:05

hey, I got a problem for heartseeker and Arcane Focus:
1st, how much exstra crit chance it can give? 10%? or it will be 15% if you fully upgrade it?
2ed, how is the crit chance bonus counted? is that i"increase 10% or 15% of your current crit chance or straight away give you 10% or 15% bonus crit chance?
thanks