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Apr 15 2013, 19:40
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aevirei
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QUOTE(Lement @ Apr 15 2013, 23:58)  @aevirei: For better armors, check in FREE shops in WTS if you haven't already- they have conditions but you should be eligible.
Also, the only time you could even start to consider filling in exp tanks is when your other options are resistances and spells you don't use, and even then imho resistances>tanks. And if you mage, never fill them.
Your stat distribution is also too extreme. ehwiki.org/wiki/stats Or in other words, for example DEX provides half the pure ADB boost of STR, while also giving parry, crit and accuracy so there's no reason to have ite, and even then imho resistances>tanks. And if you mage, never fill them. at one-fifth of the value of STR for melee - actually, there's never a reason to have anything one-fifth of the top stat, the lowest would be INT at 1/3 of WIS(in exp cost, because INT gives 1/3 the mana of WIS).
While it makes sense to get more offense when you have enough defense, I don't see you wearing 6 pieces of slaughter on iwbth.
Often enough one can see melee skimping on WIS/INT, and that makes sense if they truly have enough mana for arenas on their preferred difficulty and do nothing else, but until then the value of being 50% faster, receiving 25% less damage, restoring half your hp or regenerating it every turn can't be underestimated.
Oh and 2h shouldn't brother with sleep, seeing as their attacks have the area to wake the monsters back up. Ideally you wouldn't need weaken either, but it's both the cheapest and strongest deprecating spell. And you're level 68, so...not ideal.
@regarding butcher/SS: Honestly, I see SS as superior to butcher, given that butcher only multiplies part of your damage while SS multiplies all mana you spend and all damage you take - and that is kind of more important to melee than how much you deal. But what do I know, I'm a spellspamming mage.
Thanks for replying. I'm not a mage, so I didn't take any offense spell at all. I did checking on wolfgirl shop from time to time, and I get these armor just now. I'm not really taking them out randomly, but I didn't really know whats good either. I spend a little on WIS because some player here told me to do that. About saving some mana or whatnot. Basically, they told me about STR > END > DEX > WIS, so I'm trying to rebalance them out. Turns out like that anyway. I put INT because it gives more magic damage. While I'm not a mage at all, I was thinking that INT would give my buff-- a buff. But it turns out that I'm wrong. I'm not a mage. I'm playing Scythe user with Heavy armor who uses potion most of the time since enemies would crit me fast. But well, I don't know what to do. Every path on playing this seems interesting. I start off 2 years ago, trying to be a mage, and stopped halfway. Now I'm trying to be a 2h / heavy armor user. I'm still confused anyway.
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Apr 15 2013, 19:45
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Malenk
Group: Gold Star Club
Posts: 1,165
Joined: 12-June 12

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@Lement: thanks, that fully answers my question.
@Colman: your answer was way too broad and kinda missed the point but thanks anyway.
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Apr 15 2013, 20:14
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Nightwishman
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Is shrinning Firgurines worth it? Or should I sell it instead?
This post has been edited by Nightwishman: Apr 15 2013, 20:14
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Apr 15 2013, 21:18
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Lement
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Joined: 28-February 12

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@aevirei: That advice can hold true for melees regarding stats, just remember that stats provide same benefit per point but have exponential cost - my STR/DEX/AGI are 261, END is 280, yet the cost to up STR/DEX/AGI is half of END. So look at their exp cost, not their absolute values. Stats will be relatively balanced anyway, it will be up to gear to truly shape them to your build.
DEX and STR provide similar defense benefits(STR is slightly superior stat than DEX) until about 240 STR/END....But DEX's crit, given that crit increases damage by 50% and causes proc to happen, or accuracy, until you hit 200% accuracy, is quite useful.
AGI is kind of weak for heavy melee though*cough*75 burden nulls your evade completely*cough*and then it provides half the crit of DEX*cough*
Even so, shouldn't leave that at 0. But I think INT provides more benefit per point....hehe.
As for armors, the reason why everyone flocks to protection is that other suffixes don't provide enough difference to make up for it - Protection is about 2%, but to everything, while Deflection is 3%, but in piercing only, so kind of weak. Used to be even more so in the past due buggy mechanics, so market has inertia as well. Warding or spirit-ward suffixes are bit useless in comparison, because most skills are physical and piercing/slashing/crushing, plus one doesn't even need them to defeat the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Shielding Plate of Warding can win over plain Plate of Protection though. Anyhow, getting that high PMI is just 1(or maybe 2 if you seek shielding) rolls, what really makes the equip is primary attribute bonuses providing additional defense - especially as that unlike PMI, they grow much more rapidly. An exceptional heavy piece must have at least STR, DEX and END. That's mostly food for later on though, just don't discount that additional ADB STR and DEX provide.
You'll want power of slaughter later on once you're strong enough, by try to build up a good plate set first. Power of Protection, while lot cheaper than power of slaughter, is lot crappier too - PMI doesn't like being diced in even chunks.
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Apr 15 2013, 22:04
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HNTI
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Which potencies are worth getting when IWing heavy gear ? Should I focus at HP & mana bonuses or keep these & resistances balanced ?
This post has been edited by HNTI: Apr 15 2013, 22:15
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Apr 15 2013, 22:07
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Nightwishman
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QUOTE(HNTI @ Apr 15 2013, 22:04)  Which potencies are worth getting when IWing heavy gear ? Should i focus on HP & mana bonuses or keep these & resistances balanced ?
I'd vote for HP and mana; though PMI is always the best?
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Apr 15 2013, 22:21
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T_Starrk
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Juggernaut and capacitor are the best for armors, imo.
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Apr 15 2013, 22:22
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HNTI
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Ok, thanks. I just wanted to be sure.
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Apr 15 2013, 22:27
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Tyrlidd
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Is 1% physical mitigation the same as having 1% crush, slash, and pierce mitigation?
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Apr 15 2013, 23:08
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Malenk
Group: Gold Star Club
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Joined: 12-June 12

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QUOTE(Tyrlidd @ Apr 15 2013, 20:27)  Is 1% physical mitigation the same as having 1% crush, slash, and pierce mitigation?
nope mitigations and resistances add up multiplicatively. also not all the physical damage is cr/pr/sl type, even if most of the time it is so. like daimons' spirit attack that is holy/dark but physical and not magical. or void damage that can be physical or magical (probably arcane blow with a void weapon is the only issue of magical void damage though). basically if you have 50 mitigation and 50 res you will take 25% of the damage, not 0%.
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Apr 16 2013, 00:35
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Tyrlidd
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Apr 16 2013, 00:39
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Nightwishman
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Apr 16 2013, 00:51
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Lement
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@Tyrlidd: If you're comparing two pieces of gear, when it comes to PMI/specific you can kind of discount something rare like daimon attacks a bit, but you should account for the fact that any uptrade to specifics is less effective by (1-PMI of the piece that has the mit). Similarly, if you trade specific for PMI, it is less effective by specific mits. In the end you should weight them(I personally weight crushing-piercing-slashing at 2-2-1, but not sure what would be best, this is just based on Bestiary) and add multiplicatively together with PMI.
That said, I got the feeling most people just look at PMI, PABS and ignore specifics or burden to save time.
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Apr 16 2013, 01:58
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T_Starrk
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Don't use arcanist. Low interference is nice but mana consumption is not a problem for light, even with a full shade set-up. I don't even have any IA or gold/rainbow MP regeneration and I don't have any mana problems running full non-arcanist shade. Magic accuracy is also useless, it is only good for landing deprecating spells which is a very minor advantage. With shade you should go with gear that boosts your crit and evade like SD & fleet. Also both those arcanist pieces suck because one has a shit evade roll and the other has a shit pmi roll. Basically each one has a big trade-off on a very key stat. I would use neither, but I am picky.
Lement is right. Most people ignore specific mits. I treat them as less important too, mainly because if I had to find a piece with good specific mit rolls too I would go insane, lol, so I treat them like a bonus.
Most people ignore burden too, but they shouldn't, imo. You never know what kind of changes might be made in the future so it's best to be on the side of caution. Plus you need to aim to have your burden under 75 with heavy and kevlar need to have lower burden cause it hurts the evade so bad so both cases are important.
This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Apr 16 2013, 02:01
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Apr 16 2013, 02:17
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teddy.bear
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QUOTE(HNTI @ Apr 15 2013, 22:04)  Which potencies are worth getting when IWing heavy gear ? Should I focus at HP & mana bonuses or keep these & resistances balanced ?
It depends on how much mitigation and resistances you have as well as your kill speed. The more HP boost you have the more health you lose per hit to your spirit shield. If you can kill fast enough so that monsters cant get off many skill attacks than HP boost is good as you have a larger HP pool so you dont have to worry about casting cure a lot, but if you cant then it works against you as for each hit to your spirit shield you lose more health than with no HP boost, and if your spirit shield is getting hit often than you wont be able to recover that with regen 2 and will end up casting cure a lot more. Resistance potencies are good if you have low resistances as some of the high pl elementals will hit you for a lot of elemental damage each turn, Aoi phoenix and a few others are particularly dangerous if you have almost no resistance. Aoi phoenix used to crit me for 3k fire damage per turn when I had 0 fire resistance. I wear full power so I would rather resistance potencies, as even with full power my kill speed is not fast enough to reduce the skill attacks of the high pl monsters enough to make HP boost work (can only hope that Tenboro changes action speed so that each monster type has different attack speed as I am really getting tired of all those damn giants........). This post has been edited by teddy.bear: Apr 16 2013, 02:18
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Apr 16 2013, 02:56
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T_Starrk
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QUOTE(teddy.bear @ Apr 15 2013, 16:17)  The more HP boost you have the more health you lose per hit to your spirit shield.
With more HP isn't it harder for hits to even reach spirit shield in the first place? Anyway, I really don't think more HP and more MP hurts, it has always helped me overall. Also at my level the elemental resistances can be gotten from the ability tree. This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Apr 16 2013, 03:05
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Apr 16 2013, 04:13
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teddy.bear
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QUOTE(T_Starrk @ Apr 16 2013, 02:56)  With more HP isn't it harder for hits to even reach spirit shield in the first place?
Anyway, I really don't think more HP and more MP hurts, it has always helped me overall. Also at my level the elemental resistances can be gotten from the ability tree.
Yes but it means you are losing more HP each time it goes beyond what would normally hit it. If you can kill monsters before they can fire off a lot of skill attacks then the few skill attacks that do hit wont matter as your pool of HP will be large enough(assuming you have enough pmi) so that regen 2 will cover that additional loss. But if you cant kill them fast enough you could be losing HP equal to the amount that regen 2 can restore each time you get hit.
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Apr 16 2013, 05:24
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Lement
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Given that monsters take 1-9 turns to get enough MP for a skill attack usually I think you worry a bit too much about them raining consecutively on you and too little of having 4 at same time pop your spark. However, in gf it may be a different story as regular attacks will eventually be able to dent SS. Even in that case I think your worry would be more about losing spirit again when curing rather than cure costing a lot compared to SS being dented. After all, SS converts SP to HP in rather straightfoward manner - linearly, so if you use a godly spirit pot(100% base spirit) it is easy to work out that you'll save 3.75 times your max HP. Cure from 100% MP seems more efficient....Though action economy suffers, which is a sin.
Of course, given that you'll be facing on average 8 monsters in gf too......Better be an evasion-based build you're talking about.
This post has been edited by Lement: Apr 16 2013, 06:22
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Apr 16 2013, 05:36
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Nightwishman
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Just bash them with a mace, with haste. And unless there are just a ton of them at once, they just die without getting to attack to much (IMG:[ invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Apr 16 2013, 06:28
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teddy.bear
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QUOTE(Lement @ Apr 16 2013, 05:24)  Given that monsters take 1-9 turns to get enough MP for a skill attack usually I think you worry a bit too much about them raining consecutively on you and too little of having 4 at same time pop your spark.
My spark goes off very rarely unless I am not paying attention, and monsters do not start with zero MP SP, they can start with their gauges half full and lead off with a skill attack. And it is not uncommon for two monsters to fire off skill attacks on the same turn. Also we are talking about heavy melee, unless its 4 high pl monsters that hit you in 1 turn spark is not going to go off (unless 2 of them use skill attacks and you are at around 50% health).
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