[X] My Assistant

Really I don't think there's any build you can just pick right up and play on IWBTH easily, they all take time and investment if you want to play at that level.

Well, that rather depends on how long you want to play on IWBTH, doesn't it? If it's just the REs, then almost any Sup+ gear will make it work (yes, even easily). If it's the 1st 8 Arenas or so, any Exq+ will do fine - you don't even have to look at the stats.

Ah, but for 100-round schoolgirl marathons...!

And actually, 1H can be a viable build. People keep saying it's slow. It isn't, really - but it's not for schoolgirls. My 1H prof is less than half my level, and my rapier isn't particularly good. However, on average, it takes about 45 rounds to clear a 4-mob battle. With Heartseeker. On IWBTH. In Stance, which you're going to be in most of the time anyway, since 1H skills are practically useless against multiple enemies.

Which, I think, isn't that much slower than DW. Again, depending on a whole other number of factors.

What else will you do with your credits then???

Spend them on Galleries? Train stuff up? Trade for hath and get hath perks?

Lots of things to do with credits other than blowing them all on ONE (fantastic though it may be) piece of equipment.

I'm thinking about building a melee set. I had a few questions though. How slow is DW through non schoolgirl marathons? For instance, going through item world where there's just a mass of normal creatures. For the offhand, what kind of suffix do you want? I was thinking nimble for parry or balance for the accuracy/crit to keep up procs. A lot of players I see are running slaughter, though, for the damage. How do you decide between the 3 types of shade armor? From what I can tell, fleet is where you want to start at. Shadowdancer is for when your avoidance is good and you want some more damage. I don't see where arcanist fits, though. Finally, How many points in OC tanks do I need before I start meleeing? It seems like some of the skills need 200+ OC to activate. Currently, I have 0 due to being a mage.

DW is unbelievably slow against anything other than schoolgirls in the wrong combinations (e.g. non-Ethereal Mace + Dagger). Ideally, you'd like an maxed Ethereal Axe with high BW proc chance and turns (so you can stack easier) and a maxed Ethereal Rapier with high accuracy, (so you offhand more) PA proc chance and turns. Then you can kill enemies in 2 hits (or even OHKO if you're in Stance with additional Strikes).

OC tanks can be useful for mages too! 25% reduction in mana cost is nothing to sneeze at. But yeah, anything above 200 OC is good for meleeing.

DW is unbelievably slow against anything other than schoolgirls in the wrong combinations (e.g. non-Ethereal Mace + Dagger). Ideally, you'd like an maxed Ethereal Axe with high BW proc chance and turns (so you can stack easier) and a maxed Ethereal Rapier with high accuracy, (so you offhand more) PA proc chance and turns. Then you can kill enemies in 2 hits (or even OHKO if you're in Stance with additional Strikes).

In my case, with all un-forged gear, DW is much faster and also safer than 1D (axe+rapid vs rapid + shield) for both light and heavy. The parry from DW is so high that you do not need to worry about normal attack. If shield-power armor exist than it should be another story.

OC tanks for mages? I mostly just use focus with 1 creep left, usually a schoolgirl. Focus nets me more mana per OC that way.

Focus nets more mana per OC, yes, but monsters whale on you every turn you use it - if you use that mana on sth more than just cure1, bye bye efficiency(at 100% OC)

Investing in Training primarily gets you more items, so in essence that's the same thing as investing in a new equipment. In fact, phrasing "try to get good gear" could be interpreted as training for better (or more) drops to get equipment instead of WTS shops/auctions, since he said "try." As for hath perks, those cost hath. You could argue that you can buy hath with credits for the upgrades, but then you could make the same argument of trading equipment for hath to buy them just as easily. As for downloading galleries (using credits), for the cost of a top-notch weapon, you can get 571 GB. Maybe you're into that, but I if you wanted to do that I don't think anyone would convince you otherwise with thoughts like: "BUT YOU COULD HAVE THIS AWESOME SWORD!"

Investing in training nets you more items, which you can sell to pay off the training in sufficient amount of time. Hath perks enable you to save time when it comes to getting stuff. Equipment is harder to compare to that though since monster being alive is discreet state.

Investing in Training primarily gets you more items, so in essence that's the same thing as investing in a new equipment. In fact, phrasing "try to get good gear" could be interpreted as training for better (or more) drops to get equipment instead of WTS shops/auctions, since he said "try." As for hath perks, those cost hath. You could argue that you can buy hath with credits for the upgrades, but then you could make the same argument of trading equipment for hath to buy them just as easily. As for downloading galleries (using credits), for the cost of a top-notch weapon, you can get 571 GB. Maybe you're into that, but I if you wanted to do that I don't think anyone would convince you otherwise with thoughts like: "BUT YOU COULD HAVE THIS AWESOME SWORD!"

Well, but no, you have to examine it in context.

Nightwishman clearly was asking whether it was worth it to look around the WTS sections for good gear. Clear, because the preceding posts were all about BUYING equipment, also because he mentioned the COST of gear keeps going up.

Clearly, the costs for training have remained static (or even dropped!) over the past 3-4 patches, so that can't have been what was meant.

And in any case, you were asking what else you could do with credits. I pointed out some other things you could do with credits. I don't see you refuting my points, only saying that they mean getting good equips as well. Not true.

1. You can train to increase EXP, Ability Points, proficiency gain rate, item slots, Power, equipment sets. None of which have any direct impact on your getting better equips.

2. Similarly, many hath perks deal with Galleries and increased survivability in HV, and damned near bugger-all to do with getting better equips.

3. My primary reason for playing HV is to get Galleries. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

For that matter, you could spend lots and lots of credits on buying mats and bindings which upgrade your existing equips, rather than buying new equips. The points is, there's lots of things to use credits on that are NOT buying new equips or even increasing chances of getting new equips.

Well, that rather depends on how long you want to play on IWBTH, doesn't it? If it's just the REs, then almost any Sup+ gear will make it work (yes, even easily). If it's the 1st 8 Arenas or so, any Exq+ will do fine - you don't even have to look at the stats.

I basically meant playing all the arenas or IW on IWBTH, not just RE.

And actually, 1H can be a viable build. People keep saying it's slow. It isn't, really - but it's not for schoolgirls. My 1H prof is less than half my level, and my rapier isn't particularly good. However, on average, it takes about 45 rounds to clear a 4-mob battle. With Heartseeker. On IWBTH. In Stance, which you're going to be in most of the time anyway, since 1H skills are practically useless against multiple enemies.

I agree that it's not as slow as people think but it's definitely slower than DW. I can take out 4 mobs on IWBTH in DW with spirit stance in 10-20 hits (it varies greatly depending on how strong the mobs are).

I'm thinking about building a melee set. I had a few questions though. How slow is DW through non schoolgirl marathons? For instance, going through item world where there's just a mass of normal creatures. How do you decide between the 3 types of shade armor? From what I can tell, fleet is where you want to start at. Shadowdancer is for when your avoidance is good and you want some more damage. I don't see where arcanist fits, though. I see lvl 300+ players running a piece or two of arcanist.

I'm one of the most dedicated dual-wielders there is and even I can't stand doing IW or grindfest with it. I stick to arenas, hourlies, and RoB for DW. I go fast enough where 100 round arenas like Trio aren't tedious for me but 150+ rounds of killing 6-10 mobs one at a time? Fucking forget it. It's way too slow/tedious. Use estoc for IW or grindfest (preferably with a badass plate/power set). Dual-wield is fine for hourlies, all arenas, and RoB though.

As for type of shade, go for fleet or shadowdancer, they are the best suffixes. The only difference between the two is the crit bonus on SD and "supposedly" a little higher possible evade of fleet (from some of the recent drops I've seen I think this is debatable). I personally prefer SD if possible but it's a lot easier to find fleet with good rolls usually (there's just more fleet available). Look for high evade, pmi, and high PABs (preferably at least all four melee PABs). Damage should be good too but it comes second to those three things, imo. As for arcanist, just forget it. Low interference, magical accuracy and resist bonus are not a priority for shade.

This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Mar 13 2013, 07:07

I just pick a few questions that isn't answered.

I don't know whether to forge my DW main hand club or my off-hand rapier for physical crit chance? The rapier has much better %, almost 3x as much but I don't know how main hand and off-hand are combined into overall crit chance?

Point me to the formula if it's out there please.

AFAIK there's no additional penalty/bonus for crit chance using DW. So you can multiply the chance normally, like you're calculating other stats. Just remember to consider the effect of burden.
http://ehwiki.org/wiki/Character_Stats#Accuracy_.26_Crit

Is it worth it to even try to get good gear, when the cost of good gear just keeps going up for players like me?

Sometimes I would say 'no'. Putting every pennies into good gear is, IMO, dangerous since the game mechanic can easily change over time. I would suggest you to estimate your daily income, then buy something that won't spend more credits than you can earn in 1-2 weeks. The same can also be applied on trainings.

I've got a nice Astral Mace I use for everything. I'm 17 or so figurines short of my OFC. Just saying I'm back again and asking if I should worry about boosting my Dexterity any more. It's at 75 or so right now. My strength and agility are at 94 after factoring in equipment.

Note that OFC requires 200 OC and has a 50-turn cooldown. Though that may not be a problem once you get 21 figurines yourself.

Everyone says Estoc is the best for 2H, yet several 350+ players are looking for scythes instead. Any reason for this? Also, everyone says plate/power is the best for 2H. How do you decide on a proper mix? Like do you want a 50/50 split stat distribution-wise? Thanks for all the help.

For a while, I feels like that no one ever talk about one hand with shield as fighting style. Is it bad and i should switch to something else?

For melee, what is the important spell to get? I got haste, protect, regen, veil, Spark(2 rank), absorption. Is there a point to invest in spark rank?

Also, I find myself last not long in beyond "nightmare" difficulty before need healing even with heavy armor.
my stat are
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Will be happy if i get some advice.

Everyone says Estoc is the best for 2H, yet several 350+ players are looking for scythes instead. Any reason for this? Also, everyone says plate/power is the best for 2H. How do you decide on a proper mix? Like do you want a 50/50 split stat distribution-wise? Thanks for all the help.

I think there is 2 main reason for 350+ player to buy scythes instead of estoc.
1) They already got good estoc.
2) They want to kill fast at low difficult (normal) since bleed give damage output without hit the mobs again.

Spark is always good. More points makes it last longer, revive you with more HP, and makes the temporary 75% mitigation buff that you get when it procs last longer. In short, you want it maxed. 1h+shield, you will live a long time, but you deal no damage is the problem.

Spark is always good. More points makes it last longer, revive you with more HP, and makes the temporary 75% mitigation buff that you get when it procs last longer. In short, you want it maxed. 1h+shield, you will live a long time, but you deal no damage is the problem.

It's not that you deal no damage, it's that your damage output is lower compared to other melee styles.

1. DW effectively has 1.5x - 2x damage output, possibly more if you combine the high damage of an Axe with the PA of a rapier. You can use a rapier for 1H, but you sacrifice ADB. You can use an Axe, but you sacrifice PA.

2. 2H weapons give more ADB and hit multiple enemies.

3. Niten, well, gets you higher damage output, also hitting multiple enemies.

1H truly shines when you have high Block and high PMI/MMI. In other words, 1H is the slow but sure way of grinding yourself mindlessly across the landscape.

But actually, there are 2 issues I hope TenB will resolve with a future patch.

1. Overwhelming Strikes has too low a proc cap. NO OTHER fighting style proc caps so low as 25%. CM caps at 35%, but it can proc on multiple enemies each turn; OS cannot. Offhand for DW has effectively no cap; you could have a 100% chance of an offhand every turn if you had a really good Balance weapon. Domino Strikes caps at 80%. Same with Counter Attack (but I guess I can live with 50% cap IF I can add to it like offhand).

2. Counter attacks should act exactly like a mainhand hit (i.e. procs weapon procs, Strikes come into effect).

I find it very hard to find heavy armor with barrier suffix. I also find it is getting more mana intensive as I level up since i do not put as much wisdom as str and end.

Does those elemental spike spell useful as all?

This post has been edited by JudasC: Mar 13 2013, 08:19

1. Overwhelming Strikes has too low a proc cap.

It's probably because OS is a multi-turn boost which can be replenished, so if you give a higher proc cap, it will effectively become a permanent effect. Just like what happened to stun (at the time when you can replenish the stun proc)

I find it very hard to find heavy armor with barrier suffix. I also find it is getting more mana intensive as I level up since i do not put as much wisdom as str and end.

Does those elemental spike spell useful as all?

Those shield armor (which is the only armor that's giving barrier suffix) no longer drops. You can instead look for new armors with 'shielding' prefix.
If you feel mana intensive, then put more into WIS (probably till it's about the same level as STR/END).
Elemental spikes are not very useful.

This post has been edited by varst: Mar 13 2013, 08:37

Slow tonight or just me?

It's probably because OS is a multi-turn boost which can be replenished, so if you give a higher proc cap, it will effectively become a permanent effect. Just like what happened to stun (at the time when you can replenish the stun proc)

Ah, then in that case, give us 7 turns on OS. Like you get for most other stackable effects.

Is it possible to beat End of Days as a Mage? I can't beat this level since there isn't enough Mana to defeat all 52 bosses. Or do you recommend I start training in non-mage proficiencies? Thanks

Yes. Use holy or dark magic, wind magic on side for konata and ET/absorb for mana.