[X] My Assistant

IIRC you should have about 47.5% evade... What's your PM?

It helps to have decent PMI as well as evade if you can. It's good insurance for when the evade fails (even if I get hit with a good shot Regen II brings me back up in no time). Low 40% evade is a good number to shoot for at first though because that's about when I started being able to finish long arenas on IWBTH.

It helps to have decent PMI as well as evade if you can. It's good insurance for when the evade fails (even if I get hit with a good shot Regen II brings me back up in no time). Low 40% evade is a good number to shoot for at first though because that's about when I started being able to finish long arenas on IWBTH.

I have full Exquisite Protection Powers and I get only 63% physical mitigation...

I felt I have been an embarrassment for every Heavy Armor users.

Bad advice IMO.
Elemental strike might work for one-handed weapons to increase their damage and make them viable compared to an ethereal weapon.
But for a 2-h weapon, it doesn't really work.

Elemental strike only hits your main target, which is kinda bad for a weapon whose main strength lies in spreading the love around.

Yeah, it's not as good as ethereal when elemental is much cheaper, hence why I said to try. As only sprites, mechs and undead are resistant to piercing, if you get say elec strike, then only zombies-killing is gonna be slower than using ethereal as sprites die pretty easily anyways. The point is that if you know the monster classes, you can just hit the one that's resistant to piercing and the elemental strike should cover a bit of that damage while piercing = void for everything else. Using a demonic estoc, most rounds end with everything dying at around the same time, in 10 turns with spirit stance in battletoads except when old turtle and sheep knight show up, which take up to 25 if I can't spirit cleave. If you are merely experimenting, there's no point in spending 500k for an exquisite ethereal slaughter.

If you can get some fine ethereal slaughters, go for it, no interference can be helpful, but 2-H elemental's aren't awful except for mace because of no PA. Although after 300, I would think demonic/hallowed would be better because you can simply IW it to 10 and shard it all the time and won't worry about getting a crappy elemental strike when you get it to level 10.

This post has been edited by fishinsea: Nov 28 2012, 21:45

I have full Exquisite Protection Powers and I get only 63% physical mitigation...

I felt I have been an embarrassment for every Heavy Armor users.

Uh-oh, is that just because power or protection isn't that great? I thought par excellence for heavy armor was ~90% at 200+. I might have to go to a crude IWBTH IW with the shittiest 2h I can find to spam armor prof, because I'm definitely leveling a little too fast. I'm happy with regen2 for now.

Yeah, it's not as good as ethereal when elemental is much cheaper...

Hmm, a very kind person actually lent me a maxed ethereal estoc of slaughter. At the moment, its no slower than the bleeding weapons on hell and lower, and its definitely faster for nintendo and above. That solves the pierce problem because it has void and elemental strike. I really like it, but again I'm feeling the pain in high level arenas because my PMI is a lowly 53.9%. So I'm not sure whether to solve this problem by investing heavily in amazing armor (mirandakerr 2gud) or investing in a temporary mace.

As for the estoc, I definitely will want one eventually. The question becomes, when I have to return it, where willl I get another one!!!??? I think Temchy is selling his old one that's already maxed... Or I could bite it and see if I can't get my hands on an exquisite then get it maxed myself. Which will cost an eye and a leg, presumably. I can't live without ethereal anymore XD

It's because there's some 80 level difference between T_Starrk and Coma.

Most people suggest 70~80%, 90% is just too much and not viable. As for armor prof, you don't really need to train that; that will catch up with your leveling speed slows down. If you feel there's insufficient defense, use more plate of protection. (I don't like power of protection because you can't easily mix like plate of protection + power of slaughter, you always risk insufficient for marginal ADB gain).

As for estoc...well, some 500~1000k should get you something quite good.

This post has been edited by varst: Nov 28 2012, 22:14

Uh-oh, is that just because power or protection isn't that great? I thought par excellence for heavy armor was ~90% at 200+.

I think its more like 70-80 PMI, and the only person I've seen with 90+ PMI is 4everlost and that's with obsolete gear. You should probably save up for a really good estoc (yeah, around 500k-1m, something that won't get replaced for a least a few months) when you need it, you have 50 more levels to go before it becomes game-changing. The only downside of ethereal is the randomness of level 10 (and maybe the small increase in holy EDB for cure). There's really no point in getting small upgrades to gear unless they're so cheap it doesn't make a dent in budget.

This post has been edited by fishinsea: Nov 28 2012, 22:18

Thanks for quick feedback. Yeah I constantly feel this urge to get small upgrades even though I know its not worth it. I think what I will do is what varst suggests and splurge a bit on relatively good full set of plate of protection and power of slaughter, so I can get my PMI/ADB 'slider' that way. I have a couple of power of protection pieces myself and they're a little underwhelming.

And now that you mention it, it was definitely 4everlost with his turtle gear that had 90%. Somehow that stuck in my head as the norm.

As for prof grinding, I know most people think its unnecessary but I went and donated so I have some xp bonuses that I believe I need to offset. I was already training adept learner before, too.

Uh-oh, is that just because power or protection isn't that great? I thought par excellence for heavy armor was ~90% at 200+. I might have to go to a crude IWBTH IW with the shittiest 2h I can find to spam armor prof, because I'm definitely leveling a little too fast. I'm happy with regen2 for now.

It's not bad, but a lot of people don't properly price/choose the pieces, thinking the suffix itself will take care of everything. Doubly so for power of protection armor. EG at my level a max pm exq (body) would have 12.8 pmi or so; I wouldn't even look at a piece unless it was offering me at least 12.3 (more probably 12.5+). I see pieces that give me only 9.9 pmi or so going for however much they are, and make a note to myself not to check this seller again (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Power/ Protection pieces need str/ high end (both give +pmi) and hopefully dex. A good roll would net me 40+ str/ end, but even a mediocre roll of like only 20 str/end (at my level) equates to ~2.2 pmi from pabs. There is NO point buying a piece w/o str/end even if the pmi is high, cuz you're going to lose more pmi from the lack of pabs. you also want the dex if possible, since str/dex add to damage (and hit% for dex).

Specifically, and this is not meant to be critical, but to illustrate what you should be careful of / look for. Look at the legs in your sig, and look at these and also these. The base range for PMi for sup legs/power / protect is 6.09 to 9.84. yours are 7.1, which is .01 less than max range for non-protection, and only 27% of max range of protection (that's bad). Look what you can do instead w/ a slaughter or balance w/ decent pmi rolls.

Power / protection is bought cuz it offers more protection, yet still gives some damage, but if the pmi is nearly achievable w/ a non-protection piece, and you can get over 2x as much damage, or 2x acc/4x crit, one can only conclude that your leggings are not doing their job, and you should find something else (assuming you are using these). Also body and legs are the 2 slots w/ highest stat ranges, so that's where you should never settle for gimpy.

I'd say here that if you have full power of protection and exactly half plate of protection and power of slaughter, all with same rolls, they'll do pretty much same damage while the mixed set lasts ~43% longer.

Power of protection, however, does provide ADB, and you can probably splurge less on 2 pieces of it than equal pieces of 1 plate and 1 slaughter.

Seeing the WTS full of overpriced and underpowered Exquisite and Magnificent Power Protection, makes me kinda wonder what hell has happened.

Specifically, and this is not meant to be critical, but to illustrate what you should be careful of / look for. Look at the legs in your sig, and look at these and also these.

No offense taken, always happy to hear constructive criticism. You are right, I know they are subpar, thanks to the equipment comparison script. A lot of my gear is unfortunately minor upgrades from free stuff I got when I first started. Why don't I have better stuff? Because of:

Seeing the WTS full of overpriced and underpowered Exquisite and Magnificent Power Protection...

^this. Power gear in WTS is ridonkulously expensive, and everything I have was either free or significantly better than what I initially had. I prowl WTS relatively regularly and haven't found anything I think is reasonable (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I'm actually of the opinion that I should 'give up' on power and get myself some plate of protection stuff, and go for slow but sure while staying on the lookout for good power of slaughter pieces. That is another reason why varst's suggestion appeals to me.

How much can i net with this one?
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=2b141ac66d
I know that the suffix is crap, but it has 4PABs plus very nice PMi and MMi

How much can i net with this one?

That pxp suggests you can net a high grade metals (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) (probably)

Unless there's someone who'll prefer wind mit. to physical mit, likely not more than 30k.

This post has been edited by fishinsea: Nov 29 2012, 03:46

Ahh, it's conversations like these, with half a dozen people picking apart Power/Protection vs Plate and Slaughter that make me despair that any reasonably readable article could ever treat on the subject of HV gear values and not have gaping holes. . .

How much can i net with this one?
http://hentaiverse.org/pages/showequip.php...;key=2b141ac66d
I know that the suffix is crap, but it has 4PABs plus very nice PMi and MMi

That's exactly the kind of piece that's still salable (if suboptimal for most) despite a troll suffix. You can probably put that up for 20k (yay 4 PABs) and expect it to move eventually (I don't expect it to get snapped up at any price above salvage value), but not much more than that. Any good STR/END piece of Protection can outdo the PMI though, which caps the value pretty hard.

This post has been edited by PK678353: Nov 29 2012, 03:59

Ahh, it's conversations like these, with half a dozen people picking apart Power/Protection vs Plate and Slaughter that make me despair that any reasonably readable article could ever treat on the subject of HV gear values and not have gaping holes. . .

Hmm? Well, in most situations preferences for (gear, characters, you name it) are established either by hard evidence with numbers or through the influence of the top of the leaderboard. As far as I'm aware, a good amount of the knowledge with respect to number crunching comes through player testing, so that somewhat takes from the validity of any number crunching arguments. And there isn't really a leaderboard for HV, although you can get an idea of who knows what they are talking about. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think HV is particularly worse than any other similar game for these types of arguments.

I have full Exquisite Protection Powers and I get only 63% physical mitigation...

I felt I have been an embarrassment for every Heavy Armor users.

You are (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) But if you gain 150 levels you should be ~80% so don't feel too bad.

90% is just too much and not viable.

poo poo on you (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
7070.3 base damage (2HD)
Damage Mitigation
90 % physical
84.8 % magical

If I ever get around to using HG on stuff other then my weapon I could add some power armor into that.

Ahh, it's conversations like these, with half a dozen people picking apart Power/Protection vs Plate and Slaughter that make me despair that any reasonably readable article could ever treat on the subject of HV gear values and not have gaping holes. . .

Part of the problem is too many people seem to think you have to have Legendary/Magnificent with 4 PA or something to be any good. When a Fine/Superior with 2 PA could work just as well for a fraction of the cost.

For Power/Slaughter just look for what gives the most damage, even if it doesn't have the PA you want.
For Protection you want good phy mit but high END is going to make more of a difference then a point of mit, the high END will also give you higher Magical Mit.

The thing with mixing heavy armor is you can get a good mix of damage/mit/block vs what you can do by just using one type.

Here is what I can get using different gear (using Estoc)
Power/Slaughter: 75.1 % physical
Power/Slaughter + 1 Plate: 81% physical (-600 damage vs all slaughter)
Power/Protection: 81.9 % physical (-1000 damage vs all slaughter)
Plate/Protection: 87.4 % physical (-2300 damage vs all slaughter)
Plate/Turtle: 90 % physical (-2469 damage vs all slaughter)

The low Mit on the Slaughter gear is because I use stuff that gives the most damage and some of it doesn't have END. When I use Slaughter with END I do get 76.4 % physical but at the cost of 400 damage. So why give up 400 damage for a little mit when I can give up 600 damage and 6%

The lower damage on turtle vs plate/protection is new armor can get higher STR. But since that doesn't drop anymore good Plate/Protection with high END is almost as good.

Once you get a really good weapon I think its best to look for good slaughter gear. Once you find something that is worth upgrading look for something to fill in what you need. If you need more phy mit look for a gear plate of protection or 2 power/protection.

What you need really depends on what you want to do.
If you just do arenas going all slaughter should work.
If you want to do IW you will need a little more phy mit.
If you want to go deep into CF/GF you'll need a lot more phy mit.

so just mix and match stuff and see what works best.

It's because there's some 80 level difference between T_Starrk and Coma.

Yep, it's definitely the level difference. At coma's level I had about 57-58% PMI with my shade (but I also didn't have nearly the quality of pieces I have today either).

I agree that plate/slaughter will get better results than full power protection. Although, despite the recent high prices in some auctions, power protection is still a lot more "accessible" than slaughter. Unless you have millions to spend or get lucky with a deal you're usually left with two choices, get some decent power protection or get severely gimped slaughter. I still have to use mainly power protection because I haven't been able to get good slaughter (I have a pair of Superior Slaughter boots without endurance but that's about it, lol). It's the same deal with SD and Fleet. Shadowdancer is awesome because it has near-fleet evade and a crit bonus, but really exceptional SD is very hard to come by. On the other hand, it seems like there's exquisite+ fleet in every auction. Fleet is just more accessible.

This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Nov 29 2012, 07:36

I just got this at an auction for 70k, I think it was worth it as I start to build a reasonably good pow/slaughter collection. For now I'm going to see if I can't do plate protection cuirass/leggings and pow/slaughter everything else. This would be for mostly arenas.


I'm thinking of branching off into heimdall mage and shadowdancer later on, so I'm randomly hoarding mage and light armor stuff. Holding on to this, I think it's relatively decent. I've posted it somewhere before but I also have this which is gimped by crappy evade and dex but great ADB, PMI and a 5th PAB (free wis woo). I haven't quite figured out whether I want to sell or hold on to that 2nd piece yet.

I just got this at an auction for 70k, I think it was worth it as I start to build a reasonably good pow/slaughter collection.

That's a nice helmet for 70k. But I can't bring my self to buy heavy armor without endurance anymore (despite 4everlost's advice that it doesn't matter on slaughter). I guess maybe I am a little too picky, but I'm at the point where I don't want to buy "temp" armor and weapons. I want stuff I'd want to forge and shit.

This post has been edited by T_Starrk: Nov 29 2012, 07:48

Branching off into heimdall will be long ways away, so if you can resist for awhile, try to stockpile some credits. You never know when stupidly awesome gear will go up for auction (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)