[X] My Assistant

Interesting tidbit:
When I run my 1HS build through IW to level an equip, I cast Thunderstorm twice to grind profs. I can clear the round in half the time because things that don't die from the Thunderstorms can be one-shot with a normal attack or a Counter. This is with a melee-centric equip loadout, as well.

I still think Counter should be switched to Parry-triggered and Block's proc should be a 1-turn Stun with minor Crushing damage.

I wish I had low interference as well to do that...
Interesting idea, but Block's proc shouldn't be limited to 1 mob per turn.

melee have infinite mana? fight IPU using melee without using mana restoration then. This is so broken even boggy (a mage) think the same.

I said it can have infinite mana, because of 2nd winds and mana gems, RoB you can't have it, but for your information Boggyb said to me that can already beat IPU by bleeding axe without items, despite it's already at far levels form him, and 2W proficiency as well, yeah he still don't have infinite MP, but it also beat IPU on a reasonable time.

You trying to said about the wind which is about chance and luck... What? I'm so tired of this I don't even want to talk about this anymore..

Infinite mana doesn't come from ET but from the luck of 2nd winds/mana gems.
At +400 rounds 1 hit mean for me 1 cast of cure II, and that cost me 92 MP, 3-turn ET staff which I don't have would give me 4x25MP(Mind Reaper)=100MP, but I lost 5 turns to get it, and how much hits I got?

Yeah is about chance and luck, and for the last time, ET doesn't really help on higher levels, 2nd winds have a fixed chance, I don't know if is 5%, 10% or 20%, doesn't matter, at some point even by melee you can recover all the mana spent, plus I almost forgot but MP regen also increases with level.
In arenas or RoB melee and maging are balanced, period.
In Grind no, but that's because you can avoid 100% time damage, and to balance that is to make melee have an AoE ability in order to kill 9 mobs in one turn, or removing AoE spells for mages choose one.

You said about ET sucks elsewhere, this doesn't dismiss the fact that mage still have a way to have infinite mana.

Yes they have, that's why EoD is still only beatable by maging, but since I'm not using ET at all in arenas, IW, Fest, only at very rare occasions, isn't the ET=infinite mana that's provoking the unbalance on the rest of things.

I'm tired of this mess... no matter how people try to bend reality; Fact: Mage IS better. Just accept it. If for one day melee suddenly became better than mage, I won't going to waste my time saying otherwise, It won't make me any happier.

Of course it's better, that's not what I'm saying, what I mean is their aren't unbalance like you think they are. The biggest advantage is time not the mana thing.

So its agreed that mages are far more time efficient than melee.

Corrected

Actually when you can do +1000 rounds chances are you can also do 5x200 just much faster.

I didn't got it, explain better please.

What is nonsense?, buktore's argument is completely valid.

Let's see. melee skills:0, maging skills: each tier. Yes take much more code for melee (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

less load on the game server than melee

First, if it's because of number of hits per minute, it's practical the same if play only with the keyboard keys. Second I think people don't play more or less time HV because of fighting style, only that in the same amount of time, you'll play more rounds with maging, so more credits items and such. Yeah that's exactly what Tenboro wants (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 20 2010, 18:28

I know that mage didn't rely on the ET that much at all (see I didn't argue about you said that ET sucks). Changing how ET works or remove it altogether will not balancing thing up or make mage's performance that much lower, if at all, but the fact is that it's there and it could be use is like a fucking cheat code that you could use it to.. for example; fought any Gods at any level in any difficulty with just a decent gears (if you patient enough) is so broken that I don't think anyone will argue about this...

I do have my own thought about balancing the game other than the ET brokenness, but saying about it won't change anything, just making more flame war... which I tried to avoid.

That's why I only said that mage IS better, I never said by how much. Talking about it = instant flame war.. I know this very well so I don't. I will not going to continue this discussion any further.. it's so stupid I have actually did a double facepalm a few times while reading...

FACT: Mage IS better. by how much? you know that yourself... I'm off now.

This post has been edited by buktore: Jun 20 2010, 19:47

Anyway, about flames and wars lol, I don't know why people freak out here so easily, this isn't a test or contest, just a discussion, there's no reason of being pissed off, just because of being wrong or right ok? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
My point here is people should play whatever style want, because whatever it is you can do all the same, but if leveling up/making credits faster for less time is the objective, yes maging is the way.

I was going to edit my last post with this, but it seem there some new post, so it end up here.

Well, I will continue this a little bit more, since it seem to contain at least some reasonable argument.

Let's see. melee skills:0, maging skills: each tier. Yes take much more code for melee rolleyes.gif

I'm talking about a New Ability that have something to do with melee, this is unlikely to happen. Other thing are Skill (not ability) that Ten seem to have plan and lazy to do now.

All of the above would require his time to code, judging from his recent post, he seem to be lazy about it. I don't blame him..

First, if it's because of number of hits per minute, it's practical the same if play only with the keyboard keys.

I strongly believe that the amount of turn (not round) per minute for melee must be higher than mage, the way melee fight (hold down the number button, change, repeat) have virtually no gap, even if when changing the number (if you pay attention, which I did) and need to be done constantly. Mage, I believed, don't hold R button to cast their spells, unless in some stupid corner case I could imagine of.

Second I think people don't play more or less time HV because of fighting style, only that in the same amount of time, you'll play more rounds with maging,so more credits items and such. Yeah that's exactly what Tenboro wants rolleyes.gif

That's a good point, though I believe that he already thought about this and have plan for it. Mage could make more credits and items than melee, but still at a controllable rate that he have plan, that's what I think.

Of course, all of the above are simply just my speculation. I could be completely wrong but its sound reasonable when thinking about it.

And yeah, play what, and how, you wanted. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Jun 20 2010, 22:03

She will use just one spirit attack and you will drop dead (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Better read this before you challenge her.

HAHA

104 11 You gain 25093 Credits!
104 10 You gain 688.44 EXP!
104 9 Your HP and MP have been fully restored!
104 8 Arena Token Bonus! Received:
[Token of Healing]
104 7 Arena Clear Bonus! Received:
[Godly Mana Draught]
104 6 Konata dropped [Lock of Blue Hair]
104 5 You are Victorious!

And there you said I would drop dead in 1 hit. Never got below 30% health xD

and only used 1 bubble gum + 1 mana/health/spirit elixir.

Kept her bewildered, weakened and poisoned at all times, when PA kicked in - soul damage with bubble gum xD KICK ASS

Just moving the topic to here.

That's just a ridiculous claim.

No, that's what I used to do at your level everyday, and that's not only me. I could even did better if I got some AP in OC, although I don't believe I could do +100 rounds.

Don't you use a tier 3 spell? That's the max I use for one round.

No tier 2,3 aren't mana efficient, they're good for especial cases like, with extra channeling, hard arena, fastest clearing arenas (but burning mana pots that way), and bosses.
2x tier 1 spell is cheaper than 1x tier 2 spell, and you can kill better that way. In hard arenas were I have many mini-bosses I use chain lighting, followed by inferno, and still I see my MP go down, so I'm forced to use ET for few rounds, which isn't a problem even with 28% chance, since it's a cake hitting 5-6 turns (That's the time CM lasts for me) in mini-bosses at worst cases.

Edit: Another thing higher tier means more time units waste to cast. i.e. with chain lighting you're almost certain getting double hit, so if it leaves 2 mobs alive, it's equivalent to have 4 mobs alive with thunderstorm.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 22 2010, 13:38

Since I rarely do Griendfest these days, I don't remember how many round I could do with items (with melee of course) let alone ever actually count how many round I could do without items or ever try my best to go as long as possible, so I try it out a bit today, no item, that is..

1st try: Went in with 15.xx% Damage / 25% 3turn PA and a decent shield, I don't remember how many gems or wind I get but I died at round 42, which is a very disappointing performance.. but I did saw what's the problem...

2nd try: Went in with 28.xx% Damage / 19% 1turn PA and a decent shield, 5 mana gems / 3 mystic / 7 mana wind (half of it are not at max) died at round 59, which is pretty satisfactory since it's just my 2nd try at this.

3rd try: Went in with my usual Main gears (DW), 1 mana gems and no mystic (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif) / 4 mana wind (139 mana gained) died at round 40, I didn't expect this set to go far since it's not build for survival, but looking at how low the extra mana I get, it's might not actually be that bad...

4th try: Same as above with minor variations, 6 mana gems and no mystic / 4 mana wind (130 mana gained) died at round 48, wasted some mana casting spark by mistake... otherwise could go on for maybe a few round.

The gears I use with this are not spectacular and not at their full capability (3 of which are in process of LVling). With more experiments, I think I could find a combination with more survivability with equipment I have. I also don't have any Hath perk or special Auras and such as well. I could do 59, so I think 60-80 round are reasonable claim, with good equip of course. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Then again, I have X-Attack (at LV 90), which is a huge improvement to melee. I have no Idea when at that time, how far I and others could go without it, since I hardly do griendfest at that time (the same for now as well) or really care that much how many round peoples could go.

Another thing higher tier means more time units waste to cast

Don't overlook this. I've lost many arena battles in a single turn by casting tier three spells and having every enemy get a double turn.

fought any Gods at any level in any difficulty with just a decent gears (if you patient enough) is so broken that I don't think anyone will argue about this...

I miss that but, it's impossible, in fact even with good gear probably it's impossible beat FSM by maging even with this tactic below level 150, and if one really do it, it will close to that level.

Then again, I have X-Attack (at LV 90), which is a huge improvement to melee. I have no Idea when at that time, how far I and others could go without it, since I hardly do griendfest at that time (the same for now as well) or really care that much how many round peoples could go.

I think your levels too low, or perhaps it's because I used good gear, but no special auras or OC I had anyway, and I really forgot X-attack. This is only after hitting level 90 of course.

At your level you can do 60-80 rounds with melee...

That's just a ridiculous claim.

Truth. I average 70s with no items provided theres no bosses pops up. Twohander with decent bleed is all you need. By decent I mean any proc means fatal bleed and 25% proc rate (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

I can go to 20 with maging in NormalFest.

So congratulations, y'all win and I lose! Allow me to be the lightning rod of shame.

Truth. I average 70s with no items provided theres no bosses pops up. Twohander with decent bleed is all you need. By decent I mean any proc means fatal bleed and 25% proc rate smile.gif.

At your level you can do 60-80 rounds with melee...

I meant it's a ridiculous claim for me.
Yeah, I was just about to buy that longsword for cakefest too.

So congratulations, y'all win and I lose! Allow me to be the lightning rod of shame.

I don't give a damn (and I don't think anyone else do either) how long I can go in grindfest. 1000 rounds is the same as 10 or 15 100 rounds. I do care about arenas and legendaries.

This post has been edited by Golden Sun: Jun 22 2010, 17:28

Truth. I average 70s with no items provided theres no bosses pops up. Twohander with decent bleed is all you need. By decent I mean any proc means fatal bleed and 25% proc rate (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

Come to think I didn't try 2H. But by your numbers I perhaps you can clear +100 rounds after X-attack.

I can go to 20 with maging in NormalFest.
So congratulations, y'all win and I lose! Allow me to be the lightning rod of shame.

Ouch, that's even worse that I used to do when I switch to mage, still using silk, and elemental proficiency around 1/2 my level (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

In norm fest, one of the later few rounds without shield is pretty much gg.

6~8 absorb per piece heavy armor after nerf + shield, I see why heavy armor was nerfed.

I still tend to lean towards accuracy gear whilst in cake fests/IW though as I do not need all the extra absorb of heavy gear.

I meant it's a ridiculous claim for me.

Well you have STR,DEX,AGI below your level...

1000 rounds is the same as 10 or 15 100 rounds.

Actually no, quality increases until you reach the round 100. 2nd if you do less turns with one style, that's a bad style for leveling up, since IW is capped to 10 tries. (assuming you've time for it)

I do care about arenas and legendaries.

They can be made by any style at any level, just use what you prefer.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 22 2010, 17:37

Well you have STR,DEX,AGI below your level...

Average is below my level. Meaning if I distributed my stats evenly, everything would be 1-2 below my level. So that's not really a significant point.
I was talking more about equip and playing style.

Actually no, quality increases until you reach the round 100. 2nd if you do less turns with one style, that's a bad style for leveling up, since IW is capped to 10 tries. (assuming you've time for it)

I know that IW is capped to 10 tries, which is why I did not saw IW. I only mentioned grindfest. I know about the quality. But there's not much of an increase (most if it is random) and it caps at 50/100? That's why I said 10 OR 15 100 grinds.

They can be made by any style at any level, just use what you prefer.

??? What's they?

This post has been edited by Golden Sun: Jun 22 2010, 17:50

Come to think I didn't try 2H. But by your numbers I perhaps you can clear +100 rounds after X-attack.

Ouch, that's even worse that I used to do when I switch to mage, still using silk, and elemental proficiency around 1/2 my level (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

It's long been established that I'm a horrible player.

My elemental proficiency is my level and I'm wearing all Elementalist gear except my shoes.

And I still suck.

Eh, not that it matters.

Average is below my level. Meaning if I distributed my stats evenly, everything would be 1-2 below my level. So that's not really a significant point.

Actually it is.

??? What's they?

I'm referring to the challenges can be cleared with any fighting style.

This post has been edited by cmdct: Jun 22 2010, 18:39

It's long been established that I'm a horrible player.

My elemental proficiency is my level and I'm wearing all Elementalist gear except my shoes.

And I still suck.

Eh, not that it matters.

Imma pretty bad player too so I resort to being a farmer lulz.

You beat Mikuru. That makes you a better player than me.