[X] My Assistant

And I heard the highest level players get to do fsm like 4 times a day from all the tokens they get.

Eh... cooldown? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

any melees got a quicker way to melee IWBTH FSM?

i'm taking 1000 turns and it gets annoying... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)

Hmmm.. I think I saw someone post about using a strong dw combo, charge up oc, use holy infusion, weaken + nerf + other debuffs, then used iris strike, backstab, frenzied blows and did something like 6 million damage.

Eh... cooldown? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Doh!

Well I know I definitely heard somewhere that the top players get like 12 tokens a day.

PROTIP: To defeat FSM, repeat this process until it dies.

Hit until OC maxed, Holy infusion, DW Skill

Hey all, since reading from what I've seen so far and seeing as this where novices like me can garner some useful tactics, I was wondering if
it would be best to go for DW for awhile.
I first thought of going Arcane DW rogue (DA reference), but that doesn't seem to work well in this type of game.
So would DW be the a good path for mostly lvl 20-80ish?
I heard that switching to 2H in the later levels will be useful

Mostly what I learned is that DW is best for few groups of enemies and bosses whilst 2H is for mobs and crowd control.
So would it be best to keep DW for the time being and what would be a reccommended time/lvl to switch over to 2h?

Was also wondering what tier armors to wear?
I believe DW was a full light armor set
and 2H was a full heavy armor set, but I've heard there are differences in this field as well something like a mix of heavy and cloth, etc.

Any ideal abilities to focus on info would be nice. I know the tank, boost and slot abilities are a must, but any suggestions on what else? I think a few were
weaken, spirit shield

This post has been edited by Hakrei: Mar 27 2012, 05:21

are my proficiencies normal for this level, and i will get more when grinding exp for higher levels, or should i train them in lower difficulties or something?

Let's say like this: if you level really fast, you're going to have a lower prof.
But eventually you're going to slow down, and then your prof. will catch up.
Certainly training prof. will help you, but that's not very important if you're power-leveling.

So would it be best to keep DW for the time being and what would be a reccommended time/lvl to switch over to 2h?

Was also wondering what tier armors to wear?

Any ideal abilities to focus on info would be nice.

You should train 2-handed AND either 1-handed OR dual-wield.
There's no switching for melees: both of them will be useful in different situations.

As for armor, it mostly depends on your weapon. And mixing heavy/cloth is a bad idea.

At your level, protection should be your friend. Then get 1 point in poison and full weaken against difficult enemies. Later, you can choose to use shadow veil and/or haste, depending on your style.

This post has been edited by varst: Mar 27 2012, 05:42

You can definitely use 2H with light armor. Usually, you'd go for a mace to take advantage of you fast speed and keep your enemies stunned and attack them while stunned (at my current level, my mace has 4 turns of stun, and I'm fast enough to get off 8 attacks or so while they are stunned). You'd also have high dodge (especially with shade) and low interference (again with shade) so SV and Haste are much more affordable effective and will help you out a lot.

For heavy armor, you'd go for a katana or scythe. You are much slower and because of the high burden and interference, casting haste or sv are much costlier and give less effect since they are based on your base speed and evade. You can use a high bleed scythe or katana because bleed damage procs on your enemies turn so high speed is not nearly as useful for that (with a mace though, you'd attack too slowly to take advantage of the precious turns of stun).

This post has been edited by Kaosumx: Mar 27 2012, 06:02

Burden have no effects on action speed now, so the speed difference between Light and Heavy are much less than it used to be.

There're very little good thing left to talk about Light nowadays. What Light could do, Heavy can do better with some additional mana cost; you can't do Critical hit with skill attack and so Light sucks in that regard, Evade is overrated (you don't have enough of them at low level, and mitigation work just as well at high level, plus Shield armor has more 'Evade' than Shade), Shade is expensive to upgrade, 'Resist' is a shitty stats in general play, blah blah blah the list go on... Hence, all of you melee should use Heavy now ...


... so that Light price will be (even more) cheaper and I could finally get an upgrade to my Light set! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)




PS. That's enough HV for today...

Dang, after getting 5 artifacts or so in three days, today's arena run has been very dry. I cleared all the long arenas (except for one where i was REALLY trying to conserve my mana so my health was too low and I ended up dying) and I still haven't gotten any new artifacts. Got a good haul on the other facts from the other days though, no crystals (good thing since I didn't get Hath Perk for moar crystals yet).

except for one where i was REALLY trying to conserve my mana so my health was too low and I ended up dying

don't be so cheap, you can buy dozens mana pot with the clear bonuses alone (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Burden have no effects on action speed now, so the speed difference between Light and Heavy are much less than it used to be.

There're very little good thing left to talk about Light nowadays. What Light could do, Heavy can do better with some additional mana cost; you can't do Critical hit with skill attack and so Light sucks in that regard, Evade is overrated (you don't have enough of them at low level, and mitigation work just as well at high level, plus Shield armor has more 'Evade' than Shade), Shade is expensive to upgrade, 'Resist' is a shitty stats in general play, blah blah blah the list go on... Hence, all of you melee should use Heavy now ...
... so that Light price will be (even more) cheaper and I could finally get an upgrade to my Light set! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
PS. That's enough HV for today...

I don't know, I agree that light has lost a few of its advantages I wouldn't say that it's terribly worse then heavy.
Your reasons also seem a little strange: 1) Heavy can crit skill attacks? How so? I hadn't heard of that ability given to heavy armor. 2) I agree evade at low level is pretty useless, but if it works just as well at high level can you really say it's worse? 3) Are you saying that Shield armor has more evade because of the block chance? It's interesting, but I'd want to see more evidence of the total block rate on the average heavy player being higher then the total evade of the average light player (or perhaps just see which one gets hit more often) 4) Definitely no arguments about how expensive it is or how useless resist is, but since Shade only has the 4 types (and arguably, three of them are pretty good (I'm calling Arcanist good because of the low Interference )) I'd say that's not a terrible trade off.
Then there's the lower mana cost and the fact that your mitigation can actually be somewhat decent with a full set of shade to throw into the mix.

Sorry for the tirade, I just felt the need to stick up for light.
I don't necessarily think it's better then heavy, I think it's just a different play style.
I'm glad Ten fixed heavy, especially since when I started playing it was kind of useless, but I wouldn't say it's the only melee style worthwhile.

don't be so cheap, you can buy dozens mana pot with the clear bonuses alone (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Yup, first I went from: "I can do this with only one potion" to

"I can do this with no potion" to

"I can do this one with no potion and then clear the next one straight away with no potion again"

Needless to say, that attitude led to me not healing or casting SOL even though I had plenty of MP and then I got raped. I guess I'm mentally preparing myself for the later arenas this way. >.>

I think I'll level up my crappy Ethereal Rapier later >.>. The stats kind of suck, but it's the only Ethereal Rapier I got and all my credits are tied up in training right now so I can't buy one myself.

With DW, no matter how high your attack is, it will take you a minimum of 9 turns to kill 9 guys, and obviously that's unlikely. (not counting merciless blows).

Did you mean Merciful Blow? That's not a DW skill. And it's not a one-shot kill either, since it works on enemies who have already been hit for over 75% of their health.

Or did you mean Frenzied Blows?

Edit2: im an idiot for not reading the previous page...
Anyways, since magical mitigation is harder to get for melee, should i consider getting armor "of warding", or whats a better for full heavy/ DW melee?

The only things that hit you with magic in normal gameplay are elementals. It would seem a giant waste to get warding gear. Same for elemental protection gear, bar one or two special occasions.

Did you mean Merciful Blow? That's not a DW skill. And it's not a one-shot kill either, since it works on enemies who have already been hit for over 75% of their health.

Or did you mean Frenzied Blows?

er woops, yeah i mean frenzied. My bad, thanks, and no i meant with that skill you can attack more than 1 guy at a time. Editing previous.

The only things that hit you with magic in normal gameplay are elementals. It would seem a giant waste to get warding gear. Same for elemental protection gear, bar one or two special occasions.

Thought only the elemental special was magic? Weaken works on an elemental's normal attack.
a couple of the normal hverse mobs have magic skills too, blue slime etc, check the hentaiverse bestiary for the list. But basically yeah, warding is useless.

My heavy prof is higher than my light prof 110 vs 76, but i spent enough time and credits scouring for my gear so i can offer an opinion. Heavy is better for my level and lower. Since mana cost is directly tied to level, higher levels will feel the burn of interference more, but right now, protect/regen costs 50 for heavy, and 46 for my light set.

Proficiency bonus of heavy is way better than light too; those specific damage type mitigations really add up, and who wants resist? Observe:
kevlar mitigation: shield mitigation:

Add to that bonus endurance (heavy set gives me +280 health), and with comparable phy asb/mit (mid 50/high 40s) I find survivability much better w/ plate.

First and foremost though i think is simply how good your gear is. If plate's interference is a bother, you have to spend the time acquiring good pieces w/ low interference and eth weapons.

This post has been edited by etothex: Mar 27 2012, 10:33

From my experience when going melee, the mace is king. Stun prevents your enemies from fighting back, meaning less mana for cure/regen. Second is that 2H weapons can domino strike meaning that you can potentially stun almost/everyone with one attack. After the skills were added I never got back into DW combat so I do not know how good frenzied can be so take my side with grain of salt.

However generally the best method to play HV is to wipe out the mooks before they can attack/really hurt you. Mages are uniquely suited for that role, hence why many play that role later on. However 2H can 'imitate' the mage's sweeping damage.

This post has been edited by DSpooky: Mar 27 2012, 10:26

1) Heavy can crit skill attacks? How so? I hadn't heard of that ability given to heavy armor.

2) I agree evade at low level is pretty useless, but if it works just as well at high level can you really say it's worse?

3) Are you saying that Shield armor has more evade because of the block chance? It's interesting, but I'd want to see more evidence of the total block rate on the average heavy player being higher then the total evade of the average light player (or perhaps just see which one gets hit more often)

4) Definitely no arguments about how expensive it is or how useless resist is, but since Shade only has the 4 types (and arguably, three of them are pretty good (I'm calling Arcanist good because of the low Interference )) I'd say that's not a terrible trade off.

5??)Then there's the lower mana cost and the fact that your mitigation can actually be somewhat decent with a full set of shade to throw into the mix.

1) Slaughter Heavy has WAY more base damage then Shade, and I'm quite certain that helps skill dmg. Now, if skill somehow have some weird dmg mechanic (i.e. like how the monster skill using dex to determined dmg), then I may be wrong about this point, though I kinda doubt that.

Skill have become something of a norm for melee now if one want to do melee efficiently and effectively at high difficulty level especially for 2H, and Light strong point, the Crit bonus, doesn't help this. If skill can do critical, I would have no more issue with Light.

2) I'm saying that it's overrated, not unusable. However, relying on evade for defense requires very expensive equipment in order to get it to a usable amount and you would end up gamble your life on dice anyway, while for Heavy, mitigation are predictable, reliable, work as well, and are free for every point of prof! ... Nowadays, Mitigation (both Physical and the three physical 'element' damage type mit) is THE defensive stats (excluding the stun & crit chance, of course!), and evade improves and enhance on that. Don't believe me? Just ask mage! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

3) If you excluding the evade bonuses from auras, stats, and title, Shield armor hands-down has more 'Evade' than any Shade. And don't forget, 'Evade' from Shield armor don't get zapped away by burden ... This reduction of evade by burden basically turns Kevlar into a wannabe Plate armor for non-eth weapon user, and even if using eth, this fact barely change...

4) I'm a bit confuse by this. But oh well...

5) To clarify, I'm still using Light and it still work fine and I don't think I'll change any time soon. The less mana cost + more action speed are nice. But as it stands now, Heavy is better for raw performance in pretty much every aspect, more so given how the skill currently work and how costly it is to stay in SP mode in order to take the advantage of Light.

At any rate, your argument are reasonable and I welcomed such wholesome debate, it's good for someone who cares to read them, so no need to be sorry about it at all. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by buktore: Mar 27 2012, 19:05

"Put on your robe and Heimdall hat" is also a well-proven strategy to defeat FSM quickly. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

How do you level your monster in the monster lab?

If I can't melee FSM faster in that setup, no more vigor crystal for you! ... (IMG:[bbs.pramool.com] http://bbs.pramool.com/webboard/pic/93.gif)