[X] My Assistant

Is doing IW worth the time it takes for armor/shields?

Also should I soulfuse before doing IW to speed up process?

My 2 cents: at your level, you'll be replacing armor and shields too fast for IW to help.

If you get a good mag rapier and have to soulfuse it to use it, ok.
And a good weapon for your level should be soulfused, for the extra attack you get at IW 10, and the improvements
void attack gives you.

Mu (.) (.) y

Greetings, Experts. In Ring of Blood Strategies for melee the Wiki recommends the use of a Void weapon (either ethereal weapon or use a voidseeker shard). For Dual Wield a club for Main Hand and a rapier as Off-hand. Therefore, in DW, would ethereal in both hands be optimal? Also, why is the DW combo of a club for Main Hand and a rapier as Off-hand recommended? Thank you.

Greetings, Experts. In Ring of Blood Strategies for melee the Wiki recommends the use of a Void weapon (either ethereal weapon or use a voidseeker shard). For Dual Wield a club for Main Hand and a rapier as Off-hand. Therefore, in DW, would ethereal in both hands be optimal? Also, why is the DW combo of a club for Main Hand and a rapier as Off-hand recommended? Thank you.

The strategy in the wiki for Ring of Blood is... wrong.

You should play your character a particular way. Call that a "build." There are some builds others have tried out and found to work well which might appeal to you. You should seek out improvements to that build once you have chosen it. Better gear, better abilities, Hath Perks, and so on. All of the more recommended builds can handle Ring of Blood, once you have progressed on your build enough.

The Wiki entry, based entirely on outdated information and opinion, suggests the DW build might be best for it. Whatever your "main build" is, with the most work done to it, will be your best choice to take on Ring of Blood (and anywhere, really). You should not, for example, attempt to put together a DW build on the mistaken advice from the wiki that DW somehow works better against it. DW with weak gear will not do as well as whatever your main build with your best gear is.

That said, all melee strategies benefit from a void weapon (or both weapons as void for DW and Niten). This has nothing to do with DW in particular, but just the way void damage bypasses the resistance of monsters. Monsters simply have no resistance value against void. Treat it as 0%. The monsters in Ring of Blood tend to have strong resistances.

Assuming you're still interested in information on DW, not necessarily just for Ring of Blood:
Again, the wiki is somewhat limited in value for advice on DW. It isn't as popular and well-researched a build as 1h.

When doing DW build, you have a lot of consideration that you'll have to learn about, test out, and see the results for. Like all builds, you have to weigh the value of offense and defense.

Axes do the most raw damage. Rapiers do less raw damage, but inflict "Penetrated Armor" on your target, which removes a big portion of its physical mitigation (pmit). Strong monsters will reduce your damage by almost half, so eliminating this pmit will effectively almost double your damage output, making the rapier worth a lot more.

Rapiers also give a nice bit of parry stat to help protect you.

Clubs (and shortswords) do more raw damage than rapiers, but less than axes. Clubs give the "stun" effect to enemies. This keeps them from taking actions until the stun wears off, and it also keeps them from parrying or evading your attacks. So, for offense, it offers good damage, and eliminates another form of defense opponents may use to stay alive. For defense, stunned enemies don't hit you.

Axes, shortswords, and wakizashis all inflict the Bleeding Wound effect, which is not very popular compared to those other two effects.

Axes are valued by high-end players who can get a lot of defense from other sources from having really good gear and stuff. So they rely on their weapon less for defense and can shift more of their build towards offense. Beginning players may need more choices in their build devoted to defenses just to stay alive.

Shortswords, like rapiers, offer a bit of parry stat. They're not too popular.

Wakizashis give the least raw damage, but give parry stat and attack speed (which makes you go faster, which translates to enemies getting fewer turns relative to how many you take. Which is a defensive benefit).

So that is the overall knowledge-base that some of the wiki entry is based on. You may decide you agree with the wiki advice and go with Club+Rapier. You may decide that something like Rapier+Wakizashi or Axe+Rapier is more your style.

The strategy in the wiki for Ring of Blood is... wrong.

Perfect. Thank you, for your detailed and informative reply.


[edit]: just shortened the quote. feel free to remove this line.

edit: Thanks Scremaz, for keeping it tidy. I'll remember to follow suit.

This post has been edited by tamiroff: Dec 13 2017, 23:17

So when I look at equipment drops right now, I basically do this:

crude - auto-salvage
fair - auto-salvage
average - auto-bazaar
superior - compare to current equipment, if worse, bazaar, if it has a prefix I might admire it for a bit and then bazaar it
exquisite - if it has a bad suffix or only 1 PAB I bazaar it
magnificent - keep because I don't know how to evaluate

Do these seem like generally good rules of thumb?

Basically I have no idea how to evaluate equipment. I've read the wiki page on it and stat ranges - and it's funny even back in 2013 I had trouble making comparisons. A huge issue for me is, since I'm only level 200ish, I don't know how to scale equipment so I can compare it on an even level with some of the level 500 stuff I see everywhere. It's really taxing trying to evaluate whether your stuff is worth keeping.

So when I look at equipment drops right now, I basically do this:

crude - auto-salvage
fair - auto-salvage
average - auto-bazaar
superior - compare to current equipment, if worse, bazaar, if it has a prefix I might admire it for a bit and then bazaar it
exquisite - if it has a bad suffix or only 1 PAB I bazaar it
magnificent - keep because I don't know how to evaluate

Do these seem like generally good rules of thumb?

Basically I have no idea how to evaluate equipment. I've read the wiki page on it and stat ranges - and it's funny even back in 2013 I had trouble making comparisons. A huge issue for me is, since I'm only level 200ish, I don't know how to scale equipment so I can compare it on an even level with some of the level 500 stuff I see everywhere. It's really taxing trying to evaluate whether your stuff is worth keeping.

Looks like a decent start.

If it isn't an upgrade for you, it isn't worth keeping.

As for evaluating Magnificents:
1-handers, 2-handers, shields, cloth armor, and heavy armor have three PABs. Light armor has four. Saves have two.

Not all Mags have all the PABs possible, and if your particular item lacks one, it will probably not be interesting to others to buy it. That's a pretty easy item to see and filter for, not necessarily the most important thing.

Prefixes and suffixes are pretty easy to notice and evaluate too.
One-handed weapons: Ethereal is popular for several builds.
Light or Dark prefix is very popular. It is even preferred over ethereal on rapiers due to 1h's mechanics.
The other four elements are mostly equal, though cold is favored a little, and fire us less preferred a little.
No prefix is trash.

One possible exception to this is a Rapier. If it is missing agi PAB that's fine (for 1h build users). It can also lack a prefix (though that is a pretty big detractor). As long as it is of Slaughter and very high damage and parry base stats.

Suffixes:
Slaughter is pretty universally popular.
Balance is useful for certain builds/options, and generally better than other prefixes overall.
Nimble/Swift nearly useless, though better than no suffix. Swift may be of some slight interest to others if on a wakizashi; Nimble may be of some interest to some if on a wakizashi, shortsword, or rapier.
No suffix is trash. Not sure if magnificent can even come without a suffix.

Weapons generally are rated for their damage first and foremost. Bring up the equipment popup with the "C' button for any gear you're evaluating. Mouseover various stats and look at the base values. After you do this for awhile, you'll get to know which stats are fairly high (and you can refer to the ranges in the Wiki too). There are also scripts, like HVToolbox which (among other things) faciliate this process.

Shields are only useable by the 1h build. While they have four possible PABs, they'll only ever have three of them. The ideal combination is STR+DEX+END (SDE). SDA is acceptable to many, though not ideal. DEA and SEA are trash. Less than three PABS is trash.

Block stat is the most important stat on a shield. Bucklers are all trash unless they have the "of Barrier" suffix which raises block. Kite shields are fairly useable and sellable if they're pretty good, but force shields simply have the highest block stats, so don't expect much out of non-force shields. The high burden of force shields is not an issue for 1h builds.

Most of your magnificent shields ought to be salvaged for a high-grade wood material, which can be sold for a decent amount.

A force shield with really high block stat may attract buyers even if it has trash PABs. Since Legendary shields are better, and shield is pretty important to the 1h build, they're likely to skip over magnificent shields in favor of a legendary one though. Middle-range legendary shields have better block than top-end magnificent.

2-handed weapons are all pretty much trash. 2h style is useful up to around the level 200-250 range, but popularity severely drops off at that point. The weapon needs to be legendary to really draw any interest from people after this point, and with nearly perfect stats to get them to even raise an eyebrow.

heavy armor:
Needs to not be missing PABS, and if it is plate armor, it needs to be of protection, warding, or dampening to stand a chance to sell. Most people are going to ignore it completely though, since even legendary plate armor is pretty cheap there is little to no reason to get magnificent. If it has shielding prefix, it might draw a tiny bit of attention.

Most people are interested in power armor. Missing a PAB is maybe less of an issue if it is of Slaughter or Balance. Protection, Warding, or Dampening with all three PABs might also sell well.

Savage prefix with often raise the value of the armor. Especially if it is of Balance or Slaughter. That's basically the jackpot of heavy armor.

ADB for power armor is also very important. Buyers are often willing to sacrifice other considerations in order to have higher damage.

Light armor:
Leather is all trash. Even peerless grade. Not even high-grade leather is worth much.

Shade armor is attractive to non-1h builds since it offers a lot of agility. Builds using light armor are very stat-hungry, so need all four PABs for sure.

Damage boost is very important.

Suffix: Shadowdancer is most attractive. Fleet is reasonably attractive. Negation and Arcanist are mostly trash.
Prefix: savage or agile raise the value quite a bit.

Cloth:
Nearly all magnificent cloth is trash. Mage is the most expensive build, due to high demand among the richest players in the game. So there is no reason for someone to bother with less than the best. They'll be buying legendary.

On the other hand, magnificent cloth can be salvaged for high-grade cloth which is pretty valuable.

You might get some sell-value out of a magnificent phase cloth with a charged or radiant prefix.

Staves:
Same as cloth. Mages will be the most picky about which staff they bother to buy. Salvage for high-grade wood most likely.

That should get you started.

So when I look at equipment drops right now, I basically do this:

crude - auto-salvage
fair - auto-salvage
average - auto-bazaar
superior - compare to current equipment, if worse, bazaar, if it has a prefix I might admire it for a bit and then bazaar it
exquisite - if it has a bad suffix or only 1 PAB I bazaar it
magnificent - keep because I don't know how to evaluate

Do these seem like generally good rules of thumb?

Basically I have no idea how to evaluate equipment. I've read the wiki page on it and stat ranges - and it's funny even back in 2013 I had trouble making comparisons. A huge issue for me is, since I'm only level 200ish, I don't know how to scale equipment so I can compare it on an even level with some of the level 500 stuff I see everywhere. It's really taxing trying to evaluate whether your stuff is worth keeping.

short answer:
- don't bazaar Exquisite cotton/phase: salvage it for mid-grade cloth (sellable)
- exquisite, mag & leg: check the WTB / auction rules of decondelite. If he won't buy it, it's trash. Salvage all magnificent cotton/phase for expensive high-grade cloth (~17k)
- leg: check if Superlatanium would take it for auction. If so, it's probably a very good piece. Otherwise use self or, sell in decondelite's auction.

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Dec 13 2017, 08:20

That should get you started.

Damn, thanks for the detailed reply. Things have changed a mighty lot since the old days, that's for sure. I'm pretty sad to see that 2H has no viability at higher levels (it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

At least it's pretty clear to me that the overflow of gear has reached the point of legendary or bust. That simplifies a lot - now I just have to look at mags+ and can not bother wasting time with lesser stuff besides incrementally building up my 'own' gear/sets. I did notice while looking around the WTS/WTB sections that gear that was practically unattainable without dumping huge chunks of credits way back then can even be found for free now.

Damn, thanks for the detailed reply. Things have changed a mighty lot since the old days, that's for sure. I'm pretty sad to see that 2H has no viability at higher levels (it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

At least it's pretty clear to me that the overflow of gear has reached the point of legendary or bust. That simplifies a lot - now I just have to look at mags+ and can not bother wasting time with lesser stuff besides incrementally building up my 'own' gear/sets. I did notice while looking around the WTS/WTB sections that gear that was practically unattainable without dumping huge chunks of credits way back then can even be found for free now.

don't forget: your old gear could be collectible obsoletes and worth credits!

short answer:
- don't bazaar Exquisite cotton/phase: salvage it for mid-grade cloth (sellable)

Thank you as well for the links. Interesting on salvaging for mid-cloth. I assumed mid-level mats were practically worth nothing since you can buy in shop for 1,000, or 900 with Coupon Clipper (meaning generally I'd expect it to be even cheaper) and Ex's look like they generally sell for around 900-1,200 to the bazaar. Oh wait...you probably get more than 1 mid-cloth from salvaging don't you?

don't forget: your old gear could be collectible obsoletes and worth credits!

I know I'm sitting on some weird nonsense that people for the most part won't want. Like this 4 PAB shield. Or a smattering of Kevlar/Gossamer/Shield class stuff. Some "Fine" quality things and some absolute trash daggers of battlecaster that I used to grind proficiencies with (get the feeling that doesn't work now). Probably sitting on several million credits worth of artifacts and trophies too.

This post has been edited by ravenfrost123: Dec 13 2017, 08:51

I agree with what the wiki apparently says for Ring of Blood. DW with a club + whatever is probably best. Club + wakizashi, or rapier + wakizashi can also be fine. I presume this advice is primarily for low level players who still need some slight effort to beat Ring of Blood. For the highest Rings of Blood, 1H may offer more survivability, but for most of them with just a few monsters, nothing beats DW club + whatever in both offense and defense.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Dec 13 2017, 09:22

(it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

The main point, especially in the 200-250 range I mentioned in which 2h drops off in viability, is due to that being when player-raised monsters typically have spirit attacks. Those hit very hard. So, basically, the environment you fight in suddently becomes way, way more dangerous. Heavy armor, particularly at those low-ish levels, is one of the cheapest/easiest ways to get enough durability to live through that. 1h style with a reasonably good shield offers the block stat which contributes to this overall durability.

Of note, plate armor is super cheap. You can bulk up on a ton of defensive stats very cheaply this route. Even low-tier power armor helps boost damage, while still giving a hefty chunk of durability.

Not getting killed lets you make progress towards the end and win.

2h (along with DW and Niten) would still work reasonably well, except they don't quite work as well in heavy armor the way 1h does. The big culprit is the burden stat. It reduces your crit chance, attack speed, and evade. Those other styles are hurt more by that than 1h is.

1h does suffer a little for the loss of crit. However, due to the counter attack mechanic, 1h is actually better with very low (0% is ideal) attack speed, so opponents take more attacks for you to block and parry and therefore counter attack. Similarly, the build favors very low (again, 0% is ideal) evade, because evade happens before block or parry, and does not trigger counter attack.

It is harder to get as much durability out of light armor as it is out of heavy armor. While most light armor is trash, shade armor of the shadowdancer, especially if it is also agile or savage prefixed, can be very expensive. So, budget-wise, it is way more economical and effective to get a set of plate armor, and work into power armor.

In addition to not dying as easily, 1h's counterattacks offer a pretty sizeable amount of damage.

Consider DW:
Main strike(100%)+void strike(50%)+elemental strike 1(25%) + elemental strike 2(25%)
Offhand(50%)+void strike(25%)+elemental strike 1(12.5%) + elemental strike 2(12.5%)

8 total strikes hitting the opponent from one click, all combines to about 300% of your main strike damage.

Consider 1h:
Main strike(100%)+void strike(50%)+elemental strike 1(25%)+ elemental strike 2(25%)
and up to three counters per round, at 50% main strike each.

4-7 strikes hitting the opponents from one click, all combining to 200%-350% of your main strike damage.

Add to that the fact that 1h gains overcharge from counter attacks which let it actually maintain spirit stance pretty much indefinitely in most situations, so double all that damage. So 400%-700% main strike damage. Though to be fair, DW can put spirit stance up too, but not indefinitely. So it can count some increase in damage due to that but not quite a full doubling.

There is also the increase to damage from Penetrated Armor from your rapier in either build, and DW gets slightly better benefit from that since counters usually hit non-penetrated targets while all 8 of DW's strikes do.

One of these days I plan to work out the numbers on 2h and Niten.

But that's why 1h isn't that slow.

The strategy in the wiki for Ring of Blood is... wrong.

as a generic rule of thumb, sure. many sections in wiki can be outdated/wrong. reason is that wiki is big (really big!) and it's hard to update all of it. add this to the fact that it was primarily edited by a lone person (who has many things to do apart that) or still a small group of persons...

this being said, yep. that paragraph needs a bit of reworking.

- don't bazaar Exquisite cotton/phase: salvage it for mid-grade cloth (sellable)

phases are generally worth more at bazaar. just saying.

(it's insane in concept to me that 1H is the way to go, how does it not take forever to clear mobs?).

because of the particular way 1H is implehemented in this game. see Cryo's post for more details. but yep, it's sort of an oddity.
also, it's not like 2H has no viability. sickentide displayed it quite recently. it's most that for such a build to work, it may require particular conditions which confine it to the rank of an oddity, rather than a mainstream style.

I assumed mid-level mats were practically worth nothing since you can buy in shop for 1,000, or 900 with Coupon Clipper (meaning generally I'd expect it to be even cheaper)

and at 350~500 c on auctons/WTS/WTB. jfyi.

Probably sitting on several million credits worth of artifacts and trophies too.

feel free to fire me a pm with the list for an evaluation. equips are fine too. refer to this page for a generic definition: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Obsolete_Items
and to my WTB for some additional items

rapier + wakizashi can also be fine.

confirmed.

nothing beats DW club + whatever in both offense and defense.

quite not. probably i didn't catch the glimpse of the style yet, but it seems to me it's weaker than both 1H and DW rapier/waki. or better: less safe, so more risky.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM, then slash him to death (because I use a shortsword and not a rapier), and once I get enough overcharge I just OFC everyone. And once FSM is dead, I turn back to Invisible Pink Unicorn, do the same, and then it's Real Life. Once all 3 of them are dead, the goddesses are already dead from the OFCs, and the 3 dragons are already either dead or almost dead.

Way faster and more efficient than DW, IMHO.

I highly recommend Imperil+BW instead of PA. BW is unpopular mostly because people don't know how to play it correctly.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM

last time i did it, i killed the tree, then fired a gum and all of three gods were either dead or almost dead before the gum expired. all the rest are pretty much mere punchbags in comparison. goddesses last to enjoy groping them as much as possible :3

though gums weren't as expensive as they currently are (they still were at 3k), so knowing that i can still end the quest without too trouble i wouldn't use it now.



btw, once you reach a level high enough you can even go there, just cast Regen and Heartseeker immediately, spirit stance as soon as possible, imperil as needed and whacking the critters indefinitely. a bit longer, but still effective.

To clear the TT&T RoB, I just go in with my 1H set, Imperil FSM, then slash him to death (because I use a shortsword and not a rapier), and once I get enough overcharge I just OFC everyone. And once FSM is dead, I turn back to Invisible Pink Unicorn, do the same, and then it's Real Life. Once all 3 of them are dead, the goddesses are already dead from the OFCs, and the 3 dragons are already either dead or almost dead.

Way faster and more efficient than DW, IMHO.

I highly recommend Imperil+BW instead of PA. BW is unpopular mostly because people don't know how to play it correctly.

Seconded. Shortsword is really better compare to Rapier when you're fighting bosses. 1 action from the enemy mean you get 1 free hit with BW on. And you get higher ADB compare to Rapier so that's even more damage.

(◕‿◕) okay. I have a question! ٩(◕‿◕)۶

IW still beats my mage up... When you start forging your set it becomes comfortable to do IW or it will always keep itself somewhat hard requiring too much healing?

quite not. probably i didn't catch the glimpse of the style yet, but it seems to me it's weaker than both 1H and DW rapier/waki.

While I do think that DW club is a good style, for that particular sentence I was only referring to DW club on a very low level player in the lower Ring of Bloods only. In this case, say you are fighting Yuki Nagato all by herself, and she is hard for you. You cannot go wrong with DW club because you will just keep stunning her over and over, providing the best defense, and potentially the best offense.

Only multiple monsters can overcome the invincible stun wall of DW club.

Only multiple monsters can overcome the invincible stun wall of DW club.

A.K.A. pretty much everything else than the 2-3 first RoBs.

A.K.A. pretty much everything else than the 2-3 first RoBs.

and arenas. but it still remains that these two guys:
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showuser=805738
https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showuser=497966
play with a club. axe + club and club + rapier respectively.