[X] My Assistant

While more damage might push through to a win, I suspect that whatever barrier you're facing and thinking, "just a bit more damage and I'll get through" still exists even with more damage. This seems like it might be why people turn to rapiers and wakizashis to survive.

Alternatively, the double-axe style and/or FRD+DW style might work with better armor. More dex pab's = more parry. More agi pabs = more evade. More endurence pabs = more hp, pmit, and mmit. Forging your armor mitigations up, more hp from vigorous vitality hath perk, juggernaut potencies on armor, etc.. Again, you don't necessarily have to rely on your weapons to give you the defensive stats you need.

You could even commit utter blasphemy and wear leather in a slot or two for more protection, if the loss of damage from the downgrade from shade represents less of a loss of damage than swapping an axe. Legendary reinforced leather of protection instead of your weakest shade piece might be worth considering.

Might be easier to just paste what I was wearing.
mainhand offhand helm body hands legs feet
The two agiles are downgrades, but it gives me 24% attack speed. I don't know where 62.5 pmit ranks but it sure doesn't help when one monster parries EIGHT times in a row (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Damage doesn't matter as much with FRD as obtaining infinite stun or, failing that, an acceptable range of stun mixed with avoidance against small numbers.

Also I'm trying to avoid points in Better Protection. Mastery points cost a million chips. Scrolls are free compared to that, but I don't use them regularly.

My "underestimating stun" comes from two sources. One, I'm repeating/rewording what others have said: stunned monsters still build up mp/sp, and once they wake up from stun (those stragglers) they will tend to fire off their nukes at you. All the stun is doing is reducing the amount of regular attacks you're facing.

Two, personal experience, mostly confirming the above. 1h often generates a lot of stun. Even with all the defenses available to it, enemies still manage to generate enough offense to be a threat. Thus a frailer build seems even more at risk of being killed. Both have access to a liberal amount of stun, but one has less overall defense.

It isn't that stun is worthless, it just isn't the one thing that will keep you totally safe. Really only "bucketloads of HP" can be that.

You're still not getting me. You stun one monster, kill another, then go back and kill the stunned monster before it wakes up. I don't know how long 1h stun lasts, but normal stun gives you plenty of turns.
Now that I'm looking at it, is the free turn mechanic even still in the game? I'm in battle now, and enemies get two hits every other turn no matter what actions I take, and they're both taking no action on the turn stun/sleep wears off and never getting three hits in whenever they do act. Yet they also don't always get two hits on the turn they wake up. Must be too fast for em (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Enemies threaten you with 1h? Last time I played, I just hit S once and went 11111x222222x33333... in absolute safety. Some people even wanted perma-stance to get nerfed because "use 1h -> win" was the go-to advice for anyone trying to do the higher difficulties. I liked club over rapier so I could have more control over the level 2 skill, but I doubt I'd do it today.

Also don't forget that when absorb and spark are triggered, they block all attacks for that turn. FRD and 2H skills resetting every monster's spell timers is a useful side effect.

As for single target vs "spray," again I haven't actually used DW myself. I would assume that DW would prefer to single-target for safety purposes. [...]Again, this works out regardless of which number of opponents you face, or how many strikes it takes to kill each opponent.

You really need to actually play it for bit. This entire example is completely wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
In an avoidanceless, procless, stanceless, skill-less, damageless version of hentaiverse, sure you'd want to kill one target at a time. Then you'd immediately die because DW isn't built for that without the absolute godliest of gear, in which case it wouldn't matter what you target because everything would die in one hit regardless. You should be starting the round with frenzy to instantly kill the first five targets before doing anything else. DW is a lot stronger than 1h. A LOT stronger. Even the proficiency bonus is better at 3/4/5 over 2/3/4. A player's natural evade, parry, and shadow veil is enough to get a good bit under 50% chance to be hit. From here it should be easier to see how reaching out to kill the weak enemies first is better than going one at a time. The number of opponents and strikes per kill absolutely determines what actions you should take. That's the entire game! Even with 1h, you should be keeping an eye on the damage your counterhits are doing and picking off weak monsters or using a skill on stronger ones if you want to be more efficient.

Of course enemies with procs on them should have a higher priority.

Bleeding wound is an absolute joke. The formula is Bleeding % (20 max for 1h weapons) * base damage * Stack (5 stacks) * 0.4. An extra two hits for every five hits AFTER building up all five stacks is meaningless outside of niten's squidward sword.

10 total levels eliminates all enemy parry, period.

EDIT Enemy parry is capped at 19%. If OP5 eliminated parry, people would have noticed it, so this confirms it's multiplicative. Also lines up with Scremaz recommending 6 as it brings a capped monster from 1/5 to 1/7 parry. The extra 4 to get to 1/9 is a lot less noticeable.

DW does sound pretty fun. I look forward to eventually giving it a try. I still have some more work and expenses to deal with in my main style first, but I have been collecting pieces of gear to try out other things whenever the funds become available for forging/IW'ing. I have a persona set up with the basic abilities for "melee in light armor that uses agility." It has all of the 2h and DW (and thus Niten) abilities and light armor abilities.

IWBTH is easy enough without gear. You'll just have to use spells. Gear won't help if the player skills aren't there (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

mainhand offhand helm body hands legs feet

Main-hand: axe
Off-hand: axe
(◕‿◕) this is a lot of axes.

EDIT Enemy parry is capped at 19%. If OP5 eliminated parry, people would have noticed it, so this confirms it's multiplicative.

eh? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Also lines up with Scremaz recommending 6 as it brings a capped monster from 1/5 to 1/7 parry. The extra 4 to get to 1/9 is a lot less noticeable.

it's not that i'm recommending. i'm saying that 6 is good enough since personally i don't feel that big of a difference if compared to when i had OP8, but that's only my personal opinion.

also, i remind you that while there's plenty of datas about 1H and mages, DW is still relatively un-explored in this meta. i mean, we know about the standard builds that work, but we don't know too much neither about some of the more experimental ones nor the optimal IW. if someone wants to collect some datas about this, i won't say no for sure.

You're still not getting me. You stun one monster, kill another, then go back and kill the stunned monster before it wakes up. I don't know how long 1h stun lasts, but normal stun gives you plenty of turns.

...

You really need to actually play it for bit. This entire example is completely wrong (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
In an avoidanceless, procless, stanceless, skill-less, damageless version of hentaiverse, sure you'd want to kill one target at a time. Then you'd immediately die because DW isn't built for that without the absolute godliest of gear, in which case it wouldn't matter what you target because everything would die in one hit regardless.

You should be starting the round with frenzy to instantly kill the first five targets before doing anything else. DW is a lot stronger than 1h. A LOT stronger. Even the proficiency bonus is better at 3/4/5 over 2/3/4. A player's natural evade, parry, and shadow veil is enough to get a good bit under 50% chance to be hit. From here it should be easier to see how reaching out to kill the weak enemies first is better than going one at a time. The number of opponents and strikes per kill absolutely determines what actions you should take. That's the entire game! Even with 1h, you should be keeping an eye on the damage your counterhits are doing and picking off weak monsters or using a skill on stronger ones if you want to be more efficient.

Of course enemies with procs on them should have a higher priority.

Did a damage log of two early rounds in EoD PFUDOR. Both had three opponents, and very similar total HP. In one I did "spray" method, the other I did "focus" method.

Linky

For "spray" I did 1,2,3,1,2,3 etc. until things died off. For "focus" I did 1,1,1, until death,2,2,2, until death, 3,3,3 until death.

It would take a lot more data points to really eliminate outliers, but between the two fights you can see that it still takes a very similar amount of offense from me to clear the rounds. The spray version I received 4 more attacks from the enemies, despite the fact that I got parried three times in the focus method (thus granting that set of opponents three more rounds worth of attacks at me). Do also note all the stuns that reduced how many attacks I received in both cases too. Every counter is a 2-turn stun, and there were more counters in the spray log. I'm confident that you'd see a noticeable difference in how many attacks received between the two methods with more data points.

Even with a small number of opponents, a lot of defenses, and other oddities going on, the math still checks out. Spray method simply invites more attacks your way than focus method. Better defenses (be they evade/parry/speed of DW, or Block/parry/mitigation of 1h) will make this extra offense more survivable.

Yes, that is only three opponents. Which is far less extreme an example than my 10 opponents example above. You can imagine that these are the three remaining opponents after you've used burst effects to quickly kill off the other 7 opponents or something if you like.

Regardless of whatever your defenses, strategy, damage output, or number of opponents is, you are better off finishing off opponents faster rather than "spraying."

By all means, use whatever you need to survive the brutal start of a big round, but at some point during the round you'll get to this stage.

eh? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
it's not that i'm recommending. i'm saying that 6 is good enough since personally i don't feel that big of a difference if compared to when i had OP8, but that's only my personal opinion.

also, i remind you that while there's plenty of datas about 1H and mages, DW is still relatively un-explored in this meta. i mean, we know about the standard builds that work, but we don't know too much neither about some of the more experimental ones nor the optimal IW. if someone wants to collect some datas about this, i won't say no for sure.

Looking at the formula "Parry = 1 - (1 - min(10 , (DEX/ 100) , (DEX - Level) / 75) / 100) * (1 - chaos_interception_rank * 0.5%)"
1 - (1 - 10 / 100) * (1 - 20 * 0.005) = 19 flat. So OP5 if subtractive would take out all 19 of it.

I thought DW was popular enough to have more eyes looking into it. I'm actually more surprised about all these niten posts. Why bother when you can mage on lower diffs and do anything else on higher diffs, including mage? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) It's skill used to hit all ten targets, right? Once that got nerfed there was no longer any reason to use it. Bleed is trash so you need squidward to get instant stacks, but you also need it to kill, doublebut you also need not TOO much damage or you won't get the 110 oc back before the next round. And there's no offhand bonus so you still need to survive a screenful of pissed off monsters before the first five drop. I'm sure it's a 1 hit kill when you're forged up, but before that I'm just not seeing it.

Anyway, if overpower is a straight stack, then OP5 should go on the offhand while the mainhand gets butcher and fatality to ensure it's a 1 hit kill. The ideal setup won't be hard to figure out if you start wth the strats.

Looking at the formula "Parry = 1 - (1 - min(10 , (DEX/ 100) , (DEX - Level) / 75) / 100) * (1 - chaos_interception_rank * 0.5%)"
1 - (1 - 10 / 100) * (1 - 20 * 0.005) = 19 flat. So OP5 if subtractive would take out all 19 of it.

Lol, where did this "OP is subtractive" come from?
20% counter-parry just means you have 20% less chance of being parry.

So if you're playing @PFUDOR against fully chaosed monsters the chance of being parried is reduced from 27.1% to 21.7%.
If you have no other way to counter-parry there is literally nothing better than OP since it's 4.58% more damage and 4.58% more OC gain.

DW is a lot stronger than 1h. A LOT stronger.

Yeah, I would honestly call for a nerf.

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Dec 9 2017, 02:25

Lol, where did this "OP is subtractive" come from?

That's only way it could "eliminate all parry." So I highly doubt it does.

Yeah, I would honestly call for a nerf.

booo *hiss* (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)
Buff 1h instead. Lower the cooldowns for shield bash and vital strike, then make the spike shield ability add an elemental strike to a 1-handed counter on block-only. More points raises the percent damage.

For "spray" I did 1,2,3,1,2,3 etc. until things died off.

Are you trolling me? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) When there's only three targets you're better off killing one at a time, yes, but let me try to explain it again.
You don't switch between each target until they all die. You hit about 4 or 5, then look at the monsters' bars and procs and adjust accordingly. Now assuming you have the damage to land 1-2 or 3 hit kills (not happening with 1h), let's say 2 are dead, one is stunned and will die in 1-2 more hits, one is stunned with high health, and one parried. Then you look at the rest of the monsters if there are any and pick your target accordingly, but as I said earlier you should be starting with frenzy (or something else I'm about to get to) to instantly kill five targets. Or if you have a rapier or something, swap stun with PA and adjust your target accordingly. It sounds drawn out on e-paper but it's not something you sit and think about, you just do it automatically.

Also monsters spawn in packs so if you see one monster take a massive hit, most of the monsters in the set will also be weak spawns. Adjust accordingly. In a strong pack you stun one or two and hit the third until death, or proc PA on the first monster you hit and kill it immediately, probably with a skill if you're using them.

Just sit down and actually play for a while. You might like it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The ideal setup won't be hard to figure out if you start wth the strats.

Cont.
In the perfect world, DW would hit and kill each target once. So in a full house, round1 would be [frenzy 67890], round2 [12345 frenzy], round 3 [1-0]. Round 3 is the problematic spot. The options are to get enough avoidance and gamble, get mit and tank/cure through it, or hope sleep hits three and - if needed - hope confuse hits three more and get on with it. With enough speed, the defending buff lasts a few turns, so it's also possible to defend+attack through it, but defend costs 25 oc now for some godawful reason. If perfect gear can give 1 hit kills without stance and two axes, then the offhand should be a waki with swift strike. As Cryosite once said, weapons don't have to be the sole source of defense, but the massive speed from a 'roided-up waki will free up more mod slots on the armor while also reducing the amount of enemies taking actions each turn.

If stance is required, every combination is back on the table, but then the question of frenzy vs no frenzy depends on how much OP and avoidance there is. Stance takes 0-5 oc per hit, but skills always take the full ten, making frenzy cost 85 oc / 17 oc per target. That's a lot of parries and non-1 hit kills that can be afforded across the same 5 targets, provided the player can withstand getting wailed on that long. But this is a rich kids conversation, so stanced skills are verboten. For the mortals, there's always the "start the round with stanced frenzy, stance off, kill the rest plainly" tactic.

It takes 63.4% crit to get 2/3rds after fartseeker, and 72.3 to break the 3/4ths barrier. I don't know how much crit that forge 'roids can give out, but more than 2/3rds effective crit is probably not worth it. Raw damage should be killing enemies outright, and the crits are for bringing down the tougher ones. With elemental strikes dealing 50% damage and both weapons being ethereal with two infusions, that's 9x the listed damage with identical weapons and stance on (before mit). Supposedly. The wiki page is implying there's an additional 50% penalty on top of it? It also says the offhand deals 50% instead of 80%, so it's probably wrong. The date still says August 2017 (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
Maybe one day boroTen will buff DW and allow the proc from the mainhand (rapier) to set before the offhand hits, or if it does already it doesn't appear that way in the battle log.

Affixes: balance on offhand waki probably isn't worth it since the offhand crits if the mainhand does, and forging can get close to 100% offhand chance on non-balanced weapons. Contenders are nimble with agile armor or swiftness with savage armor.
Quickly-dying enemies can't cast spells, so shadowdancer is the only option.
If crit damage mods can make up for adb, the mainhand may not have to be slaughter or an axe, but I've only ever seen screenshots with axes so it either didn't work or there wasn't enough wealth and interest in people sitting down with all the options and a trademarked Skillchip supercomputer. Does slaughter axe and non-nimble waki even reach 200% accuracy? Void shards don't restock, and a non-slaughter or non-axe mainhand opens the door for other offhand options. Maybe we can get another buff that makes accuracy over 200% reduce enemy parry.
Potencies are still Butchality/OP. Maybe fatality over swift strike for a waki with agile gear.
I don't even want to think about heavy armor right now. I don't see how it can be faster with all that burden, even after full feathers. Shielding of slaughter with two rapiers / rapier-waki? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Maybe that's what the niten's are using.

Although I'm still a little hesitant to try selling my own items and equipment through the shops, I do want to go into selling eventually. That said, I am wondering about soulfused equipment. I read that they are untradeable, does this mean that I cannot sell them, as they need to be sent through the moogle system?

That's only way it could "eliminate all parry." So I highly doubt it does.

It's not possible to eliminate all parry, the same way it's not possible to eliminate all resist.
Even with maxed OP you will still get parried (sometime even twice in a row).

booo *hiss* (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)
Buff 1h instead. Lower the cooldowns for shield bash and vital strike, then make the spike shield ability add an elemental strike to a 1-handed counter on block-only. More points raises the percent damage.

That was a joke (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)
Outside of some selected scenarios 1H + heavy slaughters outperforms every other melee styles, in some cases even significantly so.
Best defense in the game + immense OC gain + ridiculous ADB from armor pieces + one shot from OFC.
Even if paired with bad skills it's still a mindless playstyle which is also plenty fast.

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Dec 9 2017, 16:39

Are you trolling me? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) When there's only three targets you're better off killing one at a time, yes, but let me try to explain it again.

...

Just sit down and actually play for a while. You might like it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Doing just that.

Iris Strike+Backstab is kinda nice vs the boss, while Frenzied Blows seems reasonably nice for clearing out large-ish rounds of trash. All three skills are nice and cheap on the OC cost.

I'll continue to test out the build on these two arenas, since they're fairly easy and lack SG's to complicate things.

That said, I think you're too stuck on "I'm right" and not listening to what my last couple of posts were about, so I'll just drop it. No sense speaking to a brick wall. I'll leave off saying that what I was talking about is proving to be the case in this testing so far.

Frenzy Blows is good on the boss, too. Try it, no need for Iris Strike or Backstab. =)

However, the boss should be alone, otherwise the Frenzy Blows will go hit other guys. So when there are multiple SG or bosses, you have to do the Iris Strike and Backstab on the first ones.

Although I'm still a little hesitant to try selling my own items and equipment through the shops, I do want to go into selling eventually. That said, I am wondering about soulfused equipment. I read that they are untradeable, does this mean that I cannot sell them, as they need to be sent through the moogle system?

Correct. Note that this means you won't be able to send them to IW service either.

Hi, I just begin playing HV recently. I installed HVToolBox, and found there are some numbers at the bottom of equipment detail.
For example, my current equipped armor(https://hentaiverse.org/equip/147155519/2bedb9b494), I can read "ADB -219%"
What does the number mean? Why is it negative? How is the percentage number calculated?

Hi and welcome to HentaiVerse!

The number indicates the attack damage stat roll on the item within the Legendary quality range. For example, a Legendary Shade Breastplate of the Shadowdancer with ADB 0% would mean it has the lowest possible damage bonus roll, while an ADB 100% would mean the highest possible (Peerless quality) roll. Your stat is negative because the stat range for Superior items is far lower than for Legendaries, but they're still calculated using the Legendary range.

Hope I made things clearer (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Hi, I just begin playing HV recently. I installed HVToolBox, and found there are some numbers at the bottom of equipment detail.
For example, my current equipped armor(https://hentaiverse.org/equip/147155519/2bedb9b494), I can read "ADB -219%"
What does the number mean? Why is it negative? How is the percentage number calculated?

Welcome to this forum, haoije!

Good start, installing HV Toolbox!

The numbers work like this:

- They show how this equip would perform as a Legendary. 100% means the best legendary equip possible. 0% means the worst legendary equip possible.
- So if you have a lower quality, let's say Exquisite, the stats are far below the lowest possible for Legendary. So it would be a very bad, impossibly bad, legendary. Because it's not legendary, it's exquisite. Lower than 0% means not in the legendary range.
- Negative percentages can be used to compare equips. -250% is better than -260%.

hopefully doujin-nani or i-scream-Z will add this information (◕‿◕) about the percentile range in the script to the next thread

one of the most frequently asked questions, indeed

After reading about hot DW debates, I'm just curious which melee style is fastest in DWD.

I'm currently playing 1h with mag rap, leg force, ex power slaughters. My clear time is about 40-50 minutes depending on t/s and take 6000 turns .

Considering price of rap, and power slaughters, it will take a long time to get better gears and heard that with all leg equips, 1h took at least about 4-5000 turns

At mid-level, with mid-quality equips, which style takes least time to clear DWD??

This post has been edited by paruri: Dec 9 2017, 21:35

It currently takes me 4300 turns and 25 mins to clear PFUDOR DwD as 1H, but frankly my playstyle and gear are completely out of the norm.

After reading about hot DW debates, I'm just curious which melee style is fastest in DWD.

I'm currently playing 1h with mag rap, leg force, ex power slaughters. My clear time is about 40-50 minutes depending on t/s and take 6000 turns .

Considering price of rap, and power slaughters, it will take a long time to get better gears and heard that with all leg equips, 1h took at least about 4-5000 turns

At mid-level, with mid-quality equips, which style takes least time to clear DWD??

I bet it's a question of how much credits you are willing to spend... Very expensive 1h is pretty fast.

After reading about hot DW debates, I'm just curious which melee style is fastest in DWD.

I'm currently playing 1h with mag rap, leg force, ex power slaughters. My clear time is about 40-50 minutes depending on t/s and take 6000 turns .

Considering price of rap, and power slaughters, it will take a long time to get better gears and heard that with all leg equips, 1h took at least about 4-5000 turns

At mid-level, with mid-quality equips, which style takes least time to clear DWD??

1H, I suppose (but not too much difference). Also, you don't need slaughter stuff to reach 3000-4000k turns when you are level 3xx, just a decent rapier and leg protection armor.

Btw, my record with dual wielding is 4100 turns