[X] My Assistant

Would it be a good idea to try and transition from Light armor to Heavy armor to give me better durability in fights on my 1H/Shield fighter?

Would it be a good idea to try and transition from Light armor to Heavy armor to give me better durability in fights on my 1H/Shield fighter?

yes, your level should be good to start switching from Leather to Power. remember to enable "better 1H" ability at lv250, it'll play a certain role

speaking of which, most important stats for shade armors are DEX and AGI. check for your next armor to have those two, if it's a Mag.

Part of the build, IMO, is to need craploads of PABs: STR is needed for damage to reduce how many FRDs you need to clear a round, as well as overall speed of clearing. Dex is super good, but STR adds a whole lot of raw damage. END is needed to take those hits during the cleanup/short rounds. Light armor is only worth wearing instead of heavy if it gives all of that.

afaik you should still need a bit of Swift. not sure how much, but i'd bet on at least 3 or 4 levels. i guess they may be better on the waki, but i may be wrong.
apart for that, yep, go for butcher and fatality.

Well, I do not have complete agile set, so you're probably right. Mkay, so it looks like between your answer and lololo's, then really all four possible potencies are useful, unlike with 1h. That's encouraging. Should be a fairly cheap IW commission then.

doesn't seem half bad, at least to try.

Maybe at least 45% bad? Maybe 30% bad?

Well, feeling more confident on the set. I am looking forward to blowing some stamina on low difficulties for a few days and gradually building up to test what it does and how it operates live then. Some day. After more exp grinding...

why not? just use skyward sword to stack PA on them and/or imperil, right after FRD.
frankly speaking, i never tried it, so i may be wrong. however i'd say be careful about your OC bar. by the time stuns expire, you absolutely have to have either low amount of mobs or enough OC for FRD, and FRD available at every new round. if you need to cast new spells, do it at the end of the round - even at the cost of wasting some rounds.

3.1 basically all, like every non-1H style. *maybe* you could drop either spark or spirit shield though
3.2 imperil for SGs, maybe Silence for very powerful mobs
3.3 i'd drop spirit stance, but skyward sword may still be useful - at least for SGs

Even if not from personal experience, sounds like a good set of things to keep an eye out for and be mindful of. The OC bar is a fickle resource to manage. Even when OC is in abundance with 1h style, OC-using skills like OFC are just so damn hungry.

Well, playtesting will be interesting to say the least.

As for Why not [use this build on SGs]? 'cause 1h style seems to be working pretty well. Part of the context of the FRD build is that it looks more offense-leaning than 1h, and might therefore clear out some content more quickly/efficiently than 1h. I don't expect it to do so against SGs, which are single high-hp content.

All else roughly equal, 1h+heavy:

• 1h gets slightly more damage from five armor slots. It seems power armor vs shade, raw ADB numbers, especially with slaughter, seem higher on heavy.
• 1h gets to basically double all of its damage output due to permanent spirit stance being easy to maintain.
• 1h gets to often enjoy close to another doubling of damage vs a single target due to PA stacks, essentially for free.

All these contribute to quite a lot of single-target damage ability. Pretty close to 4x damage considering those last two points.

FRD-Niten+light gets:

• Slightly more damaging weapons due to 2-handers being very slightly higher ADB than one-handers, and a wakizashi in offhand instead of a shield.
• Slightly more damage from Niten's abilities than 1h's.
• Offhand Strike probably significant source of single-target damage.
• Skyward Sword probably comparable to Vital Strike for situational single-target damage burst.

I guess this brings up another question from me
5) Do elemental/void strikes of only my Katana matter? Does the Offhand Strike get those too?
5.1) what kind of offhand strike chance is possible and what kind of chance should I expect?
5.2) Wakizashi's don't hit very hard, how much damage can I really expect out of Offhand Strike?
(Honestly, I probably ought to go read the wiki again for these...)

I use Skyward sword whenever I have more than 200 of overcharge, but since you are going to need two or more frd per round I think it would be better not to use any of them [other Overcharge-consuming skills]

After using frd don't do anything that isn't killing monsters. Use weaken instead of frd if there are just a few monsters (or don't use anything. Overpower is useful here). Try to hit some monsters before using it

This sounds like the best advice so far. I'll keep that in mind. FRD+the rounds of stuns it create = murder stuff only.
"Cleanup" and "Maintenance" happen after reducing the enemy count very low. Got it.

It's [Overpower potency]useful if you are powerful enough to kill ALMOST all of them with only one frd or when you use skyward sword instead of frd (less than 6 monsters)

This is very helpful information. So 6 opponents is a good rule of thumb to know when to use FRD or when to rely on your evasion/mitigation/regen? Is this also a good rule of thumb to decide if a second FRD should be used or if I should enter cleanup?

I use those that you mentioned, but the most important are SoL, regen and haste.

I have IA2, so that lets me keep SoL and Haste up. So I could do the same buffing strategy with this build as I do with 1h: keep casting regen when it runs out and use channeling procs/gems to mostly pay for heartseeker mostly. Just need to pay attention during cleanup to ensure there is enough duration left in both to last through the FRD next round. Possibly recast early in those cases, and eat up the slightly inefficient mana consumption that entails.

Where are you getting that 30% number from? Like why would you need 30 and not more? are there diminishing returns on attack speed after it gets to a certain amount or what?

The main answer was given by Scremaz and Sickentide, yes. It's more "I need to be at least this fast to ride."

There is also a slight bit of diminishing returns, yes. For example, if my agility, wakizashi, agile prefixes, and X Swift Strikes potencies gets me to 30%, then 18-x potencies could all go to Fatality/Butcher and increase my damage (and some to Overpower too). Every level of Swift Strikes above X isn't Fatality/Butcher/Overpower.

Additional speed above 30% may be useful. I don't really have the experience with it to know. Having the cooldown of FRD end before stun does on my enemies matters for survival and is part of the build. Additional speed might let my get some extra attacks in during that stun, but I don't know how much damage that represents compared to other potencies.

Another build consideration is that if more of the needed speed in my build comes from Swift Strikes, I could potentially wear more Savage shade armors instead of Agile. Which is roughly the same as getting Fatal Potencies instead of Swift Strikes.

Or it might be the case that going well above 30% is good. Swift Strikes/Agile in this context might result in more damage than Fatality/Butcher/Savage.

Whatever the "ideal" mix is, I don't know. It's a budget set to try the build, focusing on achieving the minimum in order to try it out and get a feel for it, rather than seeking to take it to end-game. Once it is working and I can play around with it, I can seek to refine it from there.

Hi, now I am able to complete all Arena of IWBTH, and some of PFUDOR. But it takes too much time to do these on high difficulties. Sometimes I fail because I do it too fast, innate SoL can't even save me.
It's pretty hard to find good weapons of my lvs on WTS, but I rly want some good gear, especially a rapier. Would completing them on high difficulty worth the time (I can do End of Days on PFUDOR, but I don't know if it worths the time and risk of failure (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ..), and increase the chance I get good gear?
Or shall I count on trophies to get a good rapier of slaughter? high diffi Arena and Trophies, which one offers more chance of getting good gear

I don't think trophies is a good idea.
For trophies below appendage, even you shrine 2000+ and you may still get nothing worthy.(I have that experience).
Even for appendage, you have only around 20% to get a Mag and aruond 2% to get a Leg.
And yet still need to pray getting right tier and suffix.

Playing at high difficulty does give better drops, but it is meaningless if you cannot afford it.
In conclusion, saving money and wait some good pieces pop.
Or I would say PUR RE would have the biggest chance, except buying it.

This post has been edited by qr12345: Dec 4 2017, 18:51

Is there any reason why OC decrease on immediate action (item usage) during Spirit Stance?

Also as i see in the wiki: Spirit Stance consumes one point of Spirit and 10% overcharge per round.
This could be outdated, anyone could point me to the HV update which make it costs OC per action instead of round/turn?

Part of the build, IMO, is to need craploads of PABs: STR is needed for damage to reduce how many FRDs you need to clear a round, as well as overall speed of clearing. Dex is super good, but STR adds a whole lot of raw damage. END is needed to take those hits during the cleanup/short rounds. Light armor is only worth wearing instead of heavy if it gives all of that.

you're implying FRD could actually be used for its damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

OC-using skills like OFC are just so damn hungry.

FRD requires 100 OC. skyward sword another 100. and you won't need spirit stance.

I guess this brings up another question from me
5) Do elemental/void strikes of only my Katana matter? Does the Offhand Strike get those too?
5.1) what kind of offhand strike chance is possible and what kind of chance should I expect?
5.2) Wakizashi's don't hit very hard, how much damage can I really expect out of Offhand Strike?
(Honestly, I probably ought to go read the wiki again for these...)

for this purpose Niten behaves like DW. therefore:
5) offhand gets an elemental strikes, yep. given waki's low BUR, you may also go for an elemental one to know from the start which strike it'll have
5.1) i have 92% with a high-ACC, 21-level waki. i expect to reach 94 when fully forged. maybe around 88~90 at your level, but reaching 100 should be easy with a Balance. in general it should be 75 + 0.5 * waki_ACC (assuming all the other things are maxed. check here: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Fighting_Styles#Dual_Wielding)
5.2) relatively low, i guess. probably a good bunch may be due to offhand's Void. considering low ADB, 0.8 reduction etc etc, probably Balance to boost overall Crit may be better at your level. just FYI, this is a very lazy sample of damages done with my Shade DW set (Rapier/Waki): https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=211457

Another build consideration is that if more of the needed speed in my build comes from Swift Strikes, I could potentially wear more Savage shade armors instead of Agile. Which is roughly the same as getting Fatal Potencies instead of Swift Strikes.

aye.

Or it might be the case that going well above 30% is good. Swift Strikes/Agile in this context might result in more damage than Fatality/Butcher/Savage.

well, a bit more than 30% may give you a safety margin of 1 turns or even 2 - which means, stun will expire 1~2 turns after FRD cooldown does. but more than that feels like wasted damage to me.

Is there any reason why OC decrease on immediate action (item usage) during Spirit Stance?

to punish ppl who use item (╯°Д°)╯ ? already makes too good by using spirits instants if could use item even so would be more overkills than already is

well, a bit more than 30% may give you a safety margin of 1 turns or even 2 - which means, stun will expire 1~2 turns after FRD cooldown does. but more than that feels like wasted damage to me.

for maximus min-maximus it is necessary to finish FRD in the EXACT moments you can cast again
it is a necessity for the efficiency ppl ＜( ￣︿￣)︵θ︵θ︵☆(＞口＜－)

for maximus min-maximus it is necessary to finish FRD in the EXACT moments you can cast again
it is a necessity for the efficiency ppl ＜( ￣︿￣)︵θ︵θ︵☆(＞口＜－)

i'm an engineer. exact numbers don't exist and security coefficients rule (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Main reason I was asking about the 30% number is because it's so easy to get there. At least for me.

I have This waki that I got from lottery a while back, and with that and my club and no other speed boosting items I get 33.3% attack speed. Granted my club has two swift strike potencies but even with 1 that would push you over 30%, even without agile shade.

I guess my higher level also helps though, with the Light Speed ability slotted, but still.

Main reason I was asking about the 30% number is because it's so easy to get there. At least for me.

I have This waki that I got from lottery a while back, and with that and my club and no other speed boosting items I get 33.3% attack speed. Granted my club has two swift strike potencies but even with 1 that would push you over 30%, even without agile shade.

I guess my higher level also helps though, with the Light Speed ability slotted, but still.

29.8 here with a decent waki and DW style too. no swift strike.

shouldn't be too hard to reach with Niten style either. a SS-based IW and Agile pieces were needed on 2H playstyle (when the only contribution comes from 2H weapon's AGI roll and is very low, if compared to a waki) and most likely at cryo's level as well. but yep, before start speaking about IW she'd better equip gears and see at which point she is.

Is there any reason why OC decrease on immediate action (item usage) during Spirit Stance?

Also as i see in the wiki: Spirit Stance consumes one point of Spirit and 10% overcharge per round.
This could be outdated, anyone could point me to the HV update which make it costs OC per action instead of round/turn?

Spirit Stance consumes 10% OC per action, not round. That includes actions which have very high speed, like potions.

A "round" is one complete side having all their HP depleted/flee. A "turn" is you taking an action.

Both you and your enemies take turns. You both get as many turns as you can get based on how fast you are in general and how speedy the actions you take are.

Potions/scrolls and so on are just super fast actions. You still increase your turn count taking those actions, but they are so fast you can do an infinite number of them relative to how fast your opponents are going.

Of related note, some actions are "very slow" too. Heartseeker spell, for example, has a very long casting time and you'll often see opponents getting two-ish turns when you cast it.

you're implying FRD could actually be used for its damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

Everyone needs damage, and part of this is to explore what kind of damage is possible with the build.

FRD requires 100 OC. skyward sword another 100. and you won't need spirit stance.
for this purpose Niten behaves like DW. therefore:
5) offhand gets an elemental strikes, yep. given waki's low BUR, you may also go for an elemental one to know from the start which strike it'll have
5.1) i have 92% with a high-ACC, 21-level waki. i expect to reach 94 when fully forged. maybe around 88~90 at your level, but reaching 100 should be easy with a Balance. in general it should be 75 + 0.5 * waki_ACC (assuming all the other things are maxed. check here: https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Fighting_Styles#Dual_Wielding)
5.2) relatively low, i guess. probably a good bunch may be due to offhand's Void. considering low ADB, 0.8 reduction etc etc, probably Balance to boost overall Crit may be better at your level. just FYI, this is a very lazy sample of damages done with my Shade DW set (Rapier/Waki): https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=211457
aye.

First off, thanks for the data sample. It was very helpful. I came to the conclusion that, using my method of assessing things, you can roughly translate offhand-strike to about 50% main weapon damage.

There are ideal choices you can make in Wakizashi. You can make poorer choices. But the proc chance of Off-Hand being able to go to 100%, and the overall damage of the proc capped at 50% are the major contributors.

In your data set, you have about 50% ADB on your waki as you have on your rapier. But both pale in comparison to the ADB from armor/PABs. So the damage of your regular strikes and offhand strikes is pretty close to the same, factoring in the 50% cap.

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/Qlr1ZXk.png)

This data sample is also pretty nice in that it is pretty close to the same size chunk of damage I'd be interested in for an FRD "burst." FRD itself hits for some amount of damage, then I get fairly safe 5 turns to beat up on things. As lololo's advice suggests, this burst has a goal of either killing everything (ideal) or reducing the enemies down to minimally dangerous quantities. If neither of those happen (likely in my case) FRD again.

Your data sample shows 4 strikes worth of damage, and all to one opponent. That's pretty similar to what I'd collect with Niten for an FRD burst: 5 attacks. I'd also be getting some domino strikes in there, as well as many more bleeds from domino bleed procs.

So if I had your stats, but was using Niten, and went to five actions, I could expect about 92k damage, plus some more from domino.

well, a bit more than 30% may give you a safety margin of 1 turns or even 2 - which means, stun will expire 1~2 turns after FRD cooldown does. but more than that feels like wasted damage to me.

Of course, that 5 actions is more or less based on the idea of 5 rounds of stun = 5 of my own actions. Being faster than the opponents by enough could sneak a few more actions in before they take 5 stunned turns. Every action I take in that time would be about 15k damage (and more domino procs). Getting 7 actions would be worth about a 40% hike in damage.

To give that some measure of perspective, the opponents I typically face at the moment in my usual 1h arena clearing have mostly 50k hp, with a few frail ones having notably less, and most "tanky" ones having 75K, and the extreme upper limit (ssss2's giants) with about 85k hp.

So, with your stats, a single FRD+5action salvo could probably demolish even the strongest giant, while the rest of the mob getting hit with only domino strikes. It could also probably kill or nearly kill two opponents of average HP (beasts and robots and lizards and the like). (Also forgetting to include FRD itself contributing to damage)

FRD+7 action salvo could could more consistently kill two opponents, while also having 40% more domino damage softening up everything else not being focused on.

I'm failing to see how this is wasteful in any sense of the word.

Got any anecdotal odds for selling vs shrining trophies? I mean this guy "only" cost 33 noodles. Or 800ish sgs (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Plus soulfuse tax for us lowly lowbies (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cry.gif)

dunnos if you would get that droppy with 33 noodly (◕‿◕)
savadancer adb almost 80% would be very good result

you wills falls in this fugging nothing
okays, was anothers times, but would take the money over the noodly unless already has very very noice set,
which you has not (me nethers ｡ﾟ(｡ﾉωヽ｡)ﾟ｡ )

also congratz for lolololololol for becoming the rich ppl ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ

This post has been edited by reality_marble: Dec 5 2017, 00:06

how did lololo become the rich people

So 6 opponents is a good rule of thumb to know when to use FRD or when to rely on your evasion/mitigation/regen? Is this also a good rule of thumb to decide if a second FRD should be used or if I should enter cleanup?

You will kill them faster using skyward, so you should use it only if you have more than 60% of overcharge (against 5, 6 or even 7 monsters). When there are only 4 or less monster you can try killing them with normal attacks.
With that set of yours, you won't be able to use 2 frd unless there are more than 7 monsters, if you use it, you won't have enough overcharge for the next round. You are not weak enough
I tried it with this stuff Wakizashi Katana Helmet Breastplate Gauntlets Leggings Boots

Additional speed above 30% may be useful. I don't really have the experience with it to know.

Well, you will need to cure less if you have more speed. In my case, I can't use more than one frd (because they die too fast) and that's a big problem when I do an IW or fest :s. When it comes to normal arenas I can use 4 savage armors and don't have any problem

IW of a peerless equip.

7962 attack base damage
59.8 % crit chance / +65 % damage
36.9 % attack speed bonus



7938 attack base damage
59.3 % crit chance / +67 % damage
40.2 % attack speed bonus

how did lololo become the rich people

I don't know (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

You will kill them faster using skyward, so you should use it only if you have more than 60% of overcharge (against 5, 6 or even 7 monsters). When there are only 4 or less monster you can try killing them with normal attacks.

Definitely sounds like a bit of a learning curve to it. I'll have to learn to manage that OC meter much more closely with the build.

Sounds fun though.

With that set of yours, you won't be able to use 2 frd unless there are more than 7 monsters, if you use it, you won't have enough overcharge for the next round. You are not weak enough
I tried it with this stuff Katana

...that Katana.

If I'm understanding right, you switched to that set of gear to try to match my set's performance, and you still wound up destroying everything in a single FRD?That's pretty encouraging to hear.

Overall though, I think I need to find myself a Balance Wakizashi. It'll be way easier to hit 50 acc with it than the one I have.

Ckyc has record several thousands noodly,not many good things.
Noodly won't pays back on average,or riches would push them higher.

The basic guide on the FAQ says use light armor up to Lv 200.

I get the 2H usage, but why light armor though?

The basic guide on the FAQ says use light armor up to Lv 200.

I get the 2H usage, but why light armor though?

due to its evade and resist values, light armour is said to offer better defence than heavy, and this is most important during lower levels where defence in general is lower

Because:

1) The "Heavy HP" ability tends to require a high level before being decently developped:
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Abilities#Heavy_Armor

2) Heavy armor as heither a very high burden (plate armor), or a very high interference (power armor), both of which being very problematic for a low level player:
https://ehwiki.org/wiki/Equipment#Tables

When you are a higher level, your heavy armor grants you a bit more HP, your MP tank and regeneration are more efficient and your heavy armor is of a higher quality, which means lower burden and interference. At some point you can even afford spamming spells.