[X] My Assistant

Have a question about application of mitigation reduction(imperil, penetration proc, magic prof effects)
Are they piled up on another or just applied the largest one?
and for specific mitigation, monsters' stats are like 50~70 elemental mitigation, then, imperil works like 70-50 or 70(1-50%)?? Which one is correct??

Well, lets test?

Baseline:

Scanning Cube Rings...
HP: 29652 / 29652 MP: 43% SP: 38%
Monster Class: Mechanoid, Power Level 1311
Monster Trainer: Mantra64
Melee Attack: Piercing
Fire:+62%
Cold:+62%
Elec:+14%
Wind:+62%
Holy:+62%
Dark:+46%
Crushing:+0%
Slashing:+25%
Piercing:+25%
You use Scan.

Imperil:

Cube Rings gains the effect Imperiled.
You cast Imperil.

Scanning Cube Rings...
HP: 26035 / 29652 MP: 99% SP: 66%
Monster Class: Mechanoid, Power Level 1311
Monster Trainer: Mantra64
Melee Attack: Piercing
Fire:+27%
Cold:+27%
Elec:+0%
Wind:+27%
Holy:+62%
Dark:+46%
Crushing:+0%
Slashing:+25%
Piercing:+25%
You use Scan.

Spell proc and Imperil:

Cube Rings gains the effect Searing Skin.
Flames of Loki hits Cube Rings for 2215 fire damage
You cast Flames of Loki.

Scanning Cube Rings...
HP: 23297 / 29652 MP: 25% SP: 79%
Monster Class: Mechanoid, Power Level 1311
Monster Trainer: Mantra64
Melee Attack: Piercing
Fire:+27%
Cold:+2%
Elec:+0%
Wind:+27%
Holy:+62%
Dark:+46%
Crushing:+0%
Slashing:+25%
Piercing:+25%
You use Scan.

The effect Imperiled on Cube Rings has expired.
Cube Rings gains the effect Searing Skin.
Your spike shield hits Cube Rings for 32 points of fire damage.

Scanning Cube Rings...
HP: 3589 / 29652 MP: 24% SP: 30%
Monster Class: Mechanoid, Power Level 1311
Monster Trainer: Mantra64
Melee Attack: Piercing
Fire:+62%
Cold:+37%
Elec:+14%
Wind:+62%
Holy:+62%
Dark:+46%
Crushing:+0%
Slashing:+25%
Piercing:+25%
You use Scan.

Bold on cold resistance for clarity.

This post has been edited by Cryosite: Nov 21 2017, 09:25

So then it appears the elemental mitigation is additive (and Cryosite also has Imperil upgraded to level 4). Also the effects of spike shield are additive with the elemental part of Imperil.

I guess one slight odd thing is that elemental mitigation is multiplicative if you stack multiple armors on yourself. But we have seen this weirdness before (swift strike on a wakizashi is additive with the innate speed bonus, the resultant value is then multiplicative with speed bonuses from other gear).

We can't see physical/magical mitigation through scan, but I did test it before and found that Penetrated Armor 3 does not stack with Imperil at all. Or rather, it could stack, but if so it caps out at 75% mitigation reduction.

I guess sometime I will test that again, and also test if Penetrated Armor 1 stacks with Imperil.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Nov 21 2017, 11:04

I'm thinking about using shade armor. What would be the best weapon style for it? Also, if I went with dual wielding, what types of weapons would be best?

Dw style, yep. Probably also niten.
As for weapons, I suggest:
1. Club of slaughter + rapier of balance
2. Rapier of slaughter + waki of nimble
Though I can't tell you which is better, since I use only number 2

Well, lets test?

Baseline:
Imperil:
Spell proc and Imperil:
Bold on cold resistance for clarity.

Seems to me they stack. More, they stack additively...

So then it appears the elemental mitigation is additive (and Cryosite also has Imperil upgraded to level 4). Also the effects of spike shield are additive with the elemental part of Imperil.

I guess one slight odd thing is that elemental mitigation is multiplicative if you stack multiple armors on yourself. But we have seen this weirdness before (swift strike on a wakizashi is additive with the innate speed bonus, the resultant value is then multiplicative with speed bonuses from other gear).

We can't see physical/magical mitigation through scan, but I did test it before and found that Penetrated Armor 3 does not stack with Imperil at all. Or rather, it could stack, but if so it caps out at 75% mitigation reduction.

I guess sometime I will test that again, and also test if Penetrated Armor 1 stacks with Imperil.

Don't bother, I'm gonna do it this week with the very appropriate tools:

1. Crude Buttered Rapier of the Laugh-Weaver
2. A Leg rapier that has way higher proc chance
3. Crude Breeze Wakizashi of Laughter
4. PL2250 monsters (we know their stats exactly)
5. Good old Excel

This post has been edited by decondelite: Nov 21 2017, 11:28

Do you need something else? Btw, we should somehow officialize this "guinea pig" method (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

Do you need something else? Btw, we should somehow officialize this "guinea pig" method (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/duck.gif)

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/xP0KmWu.png)

Thanks guys:)
Still I'm wondering if mitigation reduction by magic proficiency(not status effect like Searing Skin) (whose formula is [Mitigation reduction = (prof_factor ^ 1.5) * 50] on wiki )
is additive to the imperil. I think I can't check it through scan(or just don't know using scan properly...)

This post has been edited by paruri: Nov 21 2017, 12:54

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/xP0KmWu.png)

lol. tbh it's been a while since i last ate spaghetti alla carbonara (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

well, community needs data every now and then. people may offer themselves as guinea pigs (saying, for a perk) and eventually ask for a crowdfunding. in exchange, they'll have to be willing to share their datas with the community - eventually upon request as well. something like that.

Thanks guys:)
Still I'm wondering if mitigation reduction by magic proficiency(not status effect like Searing Skin) (whose formula is [Mitigation reduction = (prof_factor ^ 1.5) * 50] on wiki )
is additive to the imperil. I think I can't check it through scan(or just don't know using scan properly...)

If the same logic applies than with the rest, then it should be additive with both the Imperil's effect (40% for fire/cold/wind/electricity, 25% for dark/holy) and with the monster's elemental-specific mitigation. It makes a maximum of 100% reduction for fire/cold/elec/wind, 75% for dark/holy.

But then it's a field I cannot do research in, I've got nothing to go west go mage.

Thanks guys:)
Still I'm wondering if mitigation reduction by magic proficiency(not status effect like Searing Skin) (whose formula is [Mitigation reduction = (prof_factor ^ 1.5) * 50] on wiki )
is additive to the imperil. I think I can't check it through scan(or just don't know using scan properly...)

It is, otherwise the "magic" 0.68 prof factor would not work at all (a much higher one would be needed).

What happens if you sell an untradeable item (that you originally bought from bazaar)? Does it go back to the bazaar? Can someone else buy it?

edit: Nevermind, I should have looked it up again myself. It works the same as salvaging; only the owner can buy it back for the huge penalty cost. Hmm, I guess if you are trying to IW an equipment, selling may be slightly better than salvaging to reforge at level 10. I further suppose that if you are willing to take a gamble, you may sell your valuable weapon to bazaar then go buy it back ASAP and hope no one else bought your Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Slaughter before you haha. This would sort of grant you one free reforge at level 10; after that it would be untradeable so the penalty buyback would apply.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Nov 21 2017, 14:32

DON'T start trying to circumvent the usage of shards with that kind of means, you'll end up making someone angry. IIRC, he's aware of that kind of possible abuse and he'll do what's needed to make players unable to exploit them.

DON'T start trying to circumvent the usage of shards with that kind of means, you'll end up making someone angry. IIRC, he's aware of that kind of possible abuse and he'll do what's needed to make players unable to exploit them.

aye. afaik, buying back prices are explicitly meant to make that thing non-profitable.

... then go buy it back ASAP and hope no one else bought your Peerless Ethereal Rapier of Slaughter before you haha. This would sort of grant you one free reforge at level 10; after that it would be untradeable so the penalty buyback would apply.

Correct me here, buy if will sell soulfused equipment, then you (and only you!) can buy-back it in 24 hours, then it will be perished.
Also all equipment bought from bazaar immediately become unreadable (and so locked to your account).
Taken in account these two points, you should just soulfuse equipment before any IW, then bazaar it if you want and because it has been soulfused - yiy can safely buy it back in 24 hours with no other player's interference.
Am I right? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

aye. afaik, buying back prices are explicitly meant to make that thing non-profitable.

I have talked with Tenboro about that feature. He called it exploit and said that has nothing against it, however he mentioned this is this not intended way to reforge and ~possibly~ he will fix it. Also he said about 10,000 price cap.

So, use that feature safely, you will not be banned or whatever, but be ready that one day it will be fixed (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) maybe (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Speaking of which, it looks like Tenboro said a lot to me, but actually he said all information above in 13 words (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

We already discussed this before, it should be okay as the buyback penalty cost is fair, even unprofitable depending on the class and quality of item. It's actually a desirable system as it partially determines our forum trade value for amnesia shards.

Taken in account these two points, you should just soulfuse equipment before any IW, then bazaar it if you want and because it has been soulfused - you can safely buy it back in 24 hours with no other player's interference.

Yes, that is the standard way, and you will pay a penalty cost of 25x the sell price, about 100,000 credits for a legendary rapier (note: 5 amnesia shards with dark descent is cheaper). It is still one of the cheapest ways because soulfusing speeds up IW.

But supposing it is a weapon that you don't want to soulfuse, then as a one-time trick, maybe you can sell it to the bazaar to reforge and buy it back without the penalty cost, for only 20,000 credits (and some risk that someone else will buy it first). Of course, after this procedure, you will have to soulfuse it anyway as it became untradeable.

selling to the bazaar will not reforge it, i have bought pieces with IW from the bazaar. if you want it reforged, you have to salvage it, with the usual buyback penalty

selling to the bazaar will not reforge it, i have bought pieces with IW from the bazaar. if you want it reforged, you have to salvage it, with the usual buyback penalty

Of course!
Thanks. Honestly, I did forget about that rule (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And it was loooong-looong time ago I reforged anything in any way by myself, I mostly prefer to ask for IW service for me.

Weird, I had assumed there was some technical issue with storing IW data in the bazaar. Since there isn't, then the reforge through salvage mechanic must have been deliberately implemented in the first place. This means it was probably intended for use.

I suppose you could argue that the salvaging mechanic is intended only for forge upgrades, but even so it would have been a simple matter to leave the IW intact upon salvaging.

This post has been edited by BlueWaterSplash: Nov 22 2017, 01:40

One thing I've been wondering is about upgrades and suffixes. If you got a weapon with the 'Balance' suffix, it comes with an increased crit stat. Is that number the base from which you upgrade? Say if you had a balance weapon with 10% crit, after full forge upgrades, you should get 15%, right? Something I've been wondering about recently.

One thing I've been wondering is about upgrades and suffixes. If you got a weapon with the 'Balance' suffix, it comes with an increased crit stat. Is that number the base from which you upgrade? Say if you had a balance weapon with 10% crit, after full forge upgrades, you should get 15%, right? Something I've been wondering about recently.

i keep a text file with all of my forged gear's unforged base stats, so i just had to check that to confirm: forging a balance weapon with 13.26 crit to 25 gives 16.55, +25%, so it takes the suffix into account

note however that forging to 50 only adds about 36%, not the 50% you may expect

This post has been edited by sickentide: Nov 22 2017, 02:00