[X] My Assistant

Why does a weapon with a 10-point-higher accuracy bonus only raise my hit chance by like 1%? No wonder people value Slaughter over Balance!

Diminishing Returns!

Why does a weapon with a 10-point-higher accuracy bonus only raise my hit chance by like 1%? No wonder people value Slaughter over Balance!

pp = [en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point

The +X% to accuracy is a misnomer. It applies to miss chance, and not directly but by adding pp to a category which is then applied as a %

Base miss chance is 20%. Each category then applies to that as a % reduction causing diminishing returns. Two separate -50% to miss chance (incorrectly called +50% hit chance) bonuses would give you -10pp and -5pp for a total miss chance of 5% aka 95% hit chance.

However your bonuses are actually applied by category. If you have 3 pieces of armor which give +5% to hit chance then their combined category bonus is 15%.
So instead of 20% * .95 * .95 * .95 = 17.1475% miss chance
those armor pieces give you 20% * .85 = 17% miss chance
This singular aspect of how it is calculated is actually done in your favor (every other aspect of the calculation is done to give you the absolute minimal bonus)

pp = [en.wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentage_point

The +X% to accuracy is a misnomer. It applies to miss chance, and not directly but by adding pp to a category which is then applied as a %

Base miss chance is 20%. Each category then applies to that as a % reduction causing diminishing returns. Two separate -50% to miss chance (incorrectly called +50% hit chance) bonuses would give you -10pp and -5pp for a total miss chance of 5% aka 95% hit chance.

However your bonuses are actually applied by category. If you have 3 pieces of armor which give +5% to hit chance then their combined category bonus is 15%.
So instead of 20% * .95 * .95 * .95 = 17.1475% miss chance
those armor pieces give you 20% * .85 = 17% miss chance
This singular aspect of how it is calculated is actually done in your favor (every other aspect of the calculation is done to give you the absolute minimal bonus)

pretty much how i visualize it

What does cheater on someone's name mean?

What does cheater on someone's name mean?

Means they were caught using bots before. They get a credit penalty and the (Cheater) stigma added to their name. It can be removed though given enough time.

Doesn't happen anymore since botters get instabanned now.

Means they were caught using bots before. They get a credit penalty and the (Cheater) stigma added to their name. It can be removed though given enough time.

Doesn't happen anymore since botters get instabanned now.

Ok, thanks for the info.

However your bonuses are actually applied by category. If you have 3 pieces of armor which give +5% to hit chance then their combined category bonus is 15%.
So instead of 20% * .95 * .95 * .95 = 17.1475% miss chance
those armor pieces give you 20% * .85 = 17% miss chance
This singular aspect of how it is calculated is actually done in your favor (every other aspect of the calculation is done to give you the absolute minimal bonus)

Bonus applied separately instead of adding up.

So instead of 20% * .95 * .95 * .95 = 17.1475% miss chance

this one is the right one

6,755,254 (@ 3,655,859)

So, I have been analyzing spirit.
Spirit can be used for spirit stance at a rate of 1 spirit a round .
It can also be used up by spirit shield and spark of life at a rate of a % of your base spirit.

Attribute points and power points (regardless of source) all increase your BASE spirit only.
Only thing that increases your total spirit without increasing your base spirit is spirit tank ability (3pp each).

As such, it seems to me that the absolute 1 and only thing for which your actual numeric spirit score matters as more then a percentage is spirit stance. Everything else works off of a percent so gaining more spirit has no net negative or positive effect.

Is my assessment correct?

So, I have been analyzing spirit.
Spirit can be used for spirit stance at a rate of 1 spirit a round .
It can also be used up by spirit shield and spark of life at a rate of a % of your base spirit.

Attribute points and power points (regardless of source) all increase your BASE spirit only.
Only thing that increases your total spirit without increasing your base spirit is spirit tank ability (3pp each).

As such, it seems to me that the absolute 1 and only thing for which your actual numeric spirit score matters as more then a percentage is spirit stance. Everything else works off of a percent so gaining more spirit has no net negative or positive effect.

Is my assessment correct?

No because Spirit Shield scales off of damage absorbed, not how much spirit you have. Spark of Life uses 50% of your base spirit for the spell version and 25% of your base spirit for the scroll version.

No because Spirit Shield scales off of damage absorbed, not how much spirit you have.

It scales on both. (according to wiki)

For at a hit at 25% of HP it consumes 0% of base spirit. For a hit at 100% (cap) of HP it consumes exactly 10% of base spirit. The scaling between the two is linear.

Increasing your base spirit has no effect on such a scaling; A hit that would have done 100% of your HP in damage it consumes 10% exactly of your base spirit regardless what that numerical value is.

If my base spirit is 100 and it blocked a hit that would do 100% of my HP in damage then it takes 10 spirit.
If my base spirit is 200 and it blocked a hit that would do 100% of my HP in damage then it takes 20 spirit.
etc.

And regaining spirit is also based on base spirit (a % value).

Spark of Life uses 50% of your base spirit for the spell version and 25% of your base spirit for the scroll version.

And that is exactly what I said.

This post has been edited by mrttao: Jul 22 2012, 03:22

It scales on both. (according to wiki)

For at a hit at 25% of HP it consumes 0% of base spirit. For a hit at 100% (cap) of HP it consumes exactly 10% of base spirit. The scaling between the two is linear.

Increasing your base spirit has no effect on such a scaling; A hit that would have done 100% of your HP in damage it consumes 10% exactly of your base spirit regardless what that numerical value is.

If my base spirit is 100 and it blocked a hit that would do 100% of my HP in damage then it takes 10 spirit.
If my base spirit is 200 and it blocked a hit that would do 100% of my HP in damage then it takes 20 spirit.
etc.

And regaining spirit is also based on base spirit (a % value).

I don't know where you got that info. Couldn't find anything about that on the wiki. I know that is false though since:

7 24 Your spirit shield absorbs 8508 points of damage from the attack into 78.81 points of spirit damage.
My base spirit is 399. 10% of my base spirit would be 39.9. My health is 11486 with that equip set.

What the wiki does say is:

The amount of Spirit damage depends on the power of the blow that was absorbed, and is 40% of base (reducible to 20% at max AP) for blows that would otherwise take off 100% or more health, linearly reducing to 0 at exactly 25% damage.

Not sure exactly what that means though, and trying to apply it to what actually happens doesn't seem to yield any sort of result, so either I'm misunderstanding it, or the wiki formula is outdated/wrong.

What I know is that each point of spirit approximately absorbs 100 points of damage, with each point of spirit absorbing more points of damage the more damage you take, and less than 100 points of damage per point of spirit the less damage is absorbs.

And that is exactly what I said.

I was just making sure that anyone who read this knew how much Spark of Life cost.

Your max HP is 11486, 75% is 8614.5
So it scales linearly from 2871.5 (25% of max HP, 0% base SP) to 11486 (100% max HP, 20% base SP)
Or you can divide 8508 from 8614.5 to get 0.9876, which means the SP drained will be

0.9876 * 0.2 * 399.1 ~78.8 SP.

Increasing the base will only give advantage to people who use SP stance, but that's still very important since SP stance can be incorporated to many play styles.

Your max HP is 11486, 75% is 8614.5
So it scales linearly from 2871.5 (25% of max HP, 0% base SP) to 11486 (100% max HP, 20% base SP)
Or you can divide 8508 from 8614.5 to get 0.9876, which means the SP drained will be

0.9876 * 0.2 * 399.1 ~78.8 SP.

Increasing the base will only give advantage to people who use SP stance, but that's still very important since SP stance can be incorporated to many play styles.

Ah ok (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . I was trying all sorts of shit using my HP instead of SP to calculate SP damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

EDIT - Perhaps the wiki entry should be updated to mention that its base Spirit, base could refer to the damage or HP like I kept thinking.

This post has been edited by Kaosumx: Jul 22 2012, 07:51

Ah ok (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . I was trying all sorts of shit using my HP instead of SP to calculate SP damage (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

EDIT - Perhaps the wiki entry should be updated to mention that its base Spirit, base could refer to the damage or HP like I kept thinking.

Okay.

Sorry, 20% not 10%... as varst already explained.
Rest of what i said is accurate with that correction.

Increasing the base will only give advantage to people who use SP stance, but that's still very important since SP stance can be incorporated to many play styles.

Thanks for confirming, so it is as I had thought.

Speaking of... varst, in the suggestion thread you said you can regen mana via ether theft.
WTF how?

You need to first proc coalescing mana, then proc ether theft. You do not get any mana the turn it procs, you only get it whenever the monsters takes a turn (and attacks you).

Each time it attacks you though it had a chance of hitting you which requires a very expensive heal spell not to mention eating into your spirit. Add to that the fact that your buffs tick away every time YOU take a turn and due to optimizing for taking more turns then the enemy this means you are burning a lot of mana for each one of those ether theft ticks.

Coalescing mana is much better used for the half off mana cost bonus. You kill the monster at half the price instead of burning through heals, buffs, and many actions...

Then again, thanks to ever increasing proficiency in supporting my per turn buffs cost becomes less as I level rather then more. Combined with ever increasing evade and resist and increasing overall mana pool size. I guess it could eventually potentially break even. But the monsters are still getting stronger and your spirit is still getting eaten up.

This post has been edited by mrttao: Jul 23 2012, 02:41

Today every battle I fought had three to four monsters (player made) that were really strong & they also had spirit gauges, I just wanted to know if this was happening to anyone else or only me. Also I ranked up today and started using a new difficulty (Nintendo), I don't know if this is the cause, as that was the only thing I changed today, any info will be much appreciated -- thanks in advance.

At lv.193 you'll start to see monsters with PL over 400, which means they will have spirit gauge if the SP attack has been set.

At lv.193 you'll start to see monsters with PL over 400, which means they will have spirit gauge if the SP attack has been set.

Damn, been playing this game for so long and there's still a shitload I don't know, anyway thanks for info I'll karma you up.