[X] My Assistant

Aura L3(Green)

Cloth
Head 1.73%
Body 2.89%
Hands 2.19%
Legs 2.87%
Feet 1.50%
STR 166
END 166
Final Mit. 28.47%
With Protection I took ~10% less damage.

Light
Head 3.34%
Body 10.56%
Hands 5.14%
Legs 3.50%
Feet 3.30%
STR 175
END 165
Final Mit. 38.94%
With Protection I took ~24% less damage.

Heavy
Head 7.31%
Body 14.41%
Hands 10.28%
Legs 6.98%
Feet 5.01%
STR 199
END 192
Final Mit. 51.4%
With Protection I took ~40% less damage.

These were the numbers I had when testing.
I tried again just now with a different set:

Head 3.34%
Body 5.24%
Hands 5.15%
Legs 3.50%
Feet 3.30%
STR 173
END 171
Aura L3
Final Mit. 35.5%.
With Protection I'm taking ~20% less damage.
Using Defend instead I take exactly 25% less damage.

First, look at Weapon Damage, then Critical Bonus, those are very important stats. Depend on weapon type and its suffix, look at how much stat bonus they give (Most players tend to stay away from Ox, Raccoon, etc unless there is no better alternative).

As long as the proc is 18% or above and lasts at least 1~2 turn (4 turns for bleed), then it is not too shabby for using.

Cool, then I guess my 28% stun for 4 turns mace is good enough for now.

...uh, yeah, about my sig...I'm going to start using scythes once I get SoL.

wanna see mine?

It is the dawn of a new day!
Reflecting on your journey so far, you find that you are a little wiser.
You gain 8,038,635 EXP!
You gain 6 Credits

only random between 5 to 15 credits if you have no single hath perks mod (award&aura)

Alright I get now, thanks man.

I know, but what I'm seeing is double(+100%) the amount my armor's provide, not +25%.

Example:
My Mitigation is going from:
(1 - head) * (1 - body) * (1 - hand) * (1 - legs) * (1 - feet) * (1 - aura) * (1 - str*.004) * (1 - end*.007)
to approximately this with Protection:
(1 - 2*head) * (1 - 2*body) * (1 - 2*hand) * (1 - 2*legs) * (1 - 2*feet) * (1 - aura) * (1 - str*.004) * (1 - end*.007)

Going to have to agree with you, except for your math.

Did my test against Liselotte Werckmeister, got to love the little scamp.

In my light set, I have 25.2% mitigation from gear, and 54.4% mitigation with auras and stats. With the spell protection I took ~74% of the damage I would normally take. which is 1-.252=0.748. And considering that damage gets rounded it is close enough.

In my Protection hybrid set (just my highest mitigation gears) and had 38.4% mitigation from gear, and 63.8% with stats and auras combined with that. With protection I took ~61% of the damage I took without it. 1-0.384=0.618, which again is close enough with rounding.

Therefore the spell Protection is currently giving you 2x the mitigation from gear, not 0.25.

Formulas:
Normal:
Mitigation = 1 - (1 - shield) * (1 - head) * (1 - body) * (1 - hand) * (1 - legs) * (1 - feet) * (1 - aura) * (1 - str*.004) * (1 - end*.007)

With Protection
Mitigation with Protection = 1- (1 - shield) * (1 - head) * (1 - body) * (1 - hand) * (1 - legs) * (1 - feet) * (1 - shield) * (1 - head) * (1 - body) * (1 - hand) * (1 - legs) * (1 - feet) * (1 - aura) * (1 - str*.004) * (1 - end*.007)

Or to simplify
gearmit = 1 - (1 - shield) * (1 - head) * (1 - body) * (1 - hand) * (1 - legs) * (1 - feet)

and

Mitigation with Protection = 1- (1 - gearmit) * (1 - gearmit)* (1 - aura) * (1 - str*.004) * (1 - end*.007)

ex 5 pieces with 10% mitigation, and no str/end/aura

Mitigation = 1 - (1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1) = 40.95%

gearmit = 1 - (1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1) = 40.95% (equal in this case to Mitigation because of no str/end/aura)

w/Protection = 1 - (1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1)*(1-.1) = 65.13%
or it is about = 1 - (1-.4095)*(1-.4095) = 65.13%

100*(1-.4095)=~59.05
100*(1-.6513)=~34.87
34.87/59.05=0.5905
1-0.5905=0.4094 => 40.94% less damage

if protection was 1/4 like advertised
1 - (1-.4095)*(1-.4095/4) = 47.00%
100*(1-.47)=53
53/59.05=.8975
1-.8975=0.1025 => 10.25% ~= 40.95/4=10.24%

So the question is, working as intended? Or is the spell broken...

@kjeron this is where I argue with your approximation
1 - (1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2) =/= 1 - (1-.4095)*(1-.4095)
67.232 =/= 65.13, and that much of a difference is noticeable against monsters of my level with doing damage testing

This post has been edited by skillchip: Apr 27 2012, 23:44

@kjeron this is where I argue with your approximation
1 - (1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2)*(1-.2) =/= 1 - (1-.4095)*(1-.4095)
67.232 =/= 65.13, and that much of a difference is noticeable against monsters of my level with doing damage testing

Noted, I didn't think about it squaring the mitigations rather than doubling, and unfortunately at my level I wouldn't have been able to see enough of a difference to know which it was even if I had.

Thank you Skillchip for verifying this.

NP, I was already working on monster damage and this was on my list, you just sped it up cause it was glaringly different then what is advertised

Sooo, in conclusion, protection is basically a lot better than we thought?

Oh yeah! (koolaid man breaks through 12 walls like a tank in plate!)

Oh yeah! (koolaid man breaks through 12 walls like a tank in plate!)

Well, at least we dont need to change the advice about using Protection for heavy armor and Shadow Veil for others.

Wise it could get some more duration boost, though....

Well, at least we dont need to change the advice about using Protection for heavy armor and Shadow Veil for others.

Wise it could get some more duration boost, though....

IA (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Problem solved.

Well, at least we dont need to change the advice about using Protection for heavy armor and Shadow Veil for others.

Wise it could get some more duration boost, though....

Light can also take advantage of Protection. Kevlar, anyone?

Good, I've some idea on wiki about those player-found discrepancy now. Probably wait a few days so I can finish another small conversion first.

Tenboro included a calculation as an example of how Protection worked. So maybe it was changed while we weren't looking since some of us were complaining of how much suck it consisted of?

Tenboro included a calculation as an example of how Protection worked. So maybe it was changed while we weren't looking since some of us were complaining of how much suck it consisted of?

It is in 0.6.0 version

- The spell versions of Shield and Barrier will now enhance your equipment directly, boosting the natural physical and magical absorption and mitigation bonus from your armor by 25%.
-- Meaning, if your equipment set adds up to 50% Physical Mitigation and 20% Magical Mitigation, it will increase your total mitigation to 50% * 25% = 12.5 => 1 - (0.5 * 0.875) = 56.25%, and 20% * 25% = 5 => 1 - (0.80 * 0.95) = 24%, respectively.
-- Note that other things that affect your absorption and mitigation - like equipment set bonuses, auras, the Defense command and the shield/barrier scrolls - do not count towards this bonus.

Tenboro included a calculation as an example of how Protection worked. So maybe it was changed while we weren't looking since some of us were complaining of how much suck it consisted of?

Can't be sure if it's a change in respect of the absorption removal or any other reasons.

I would argue (i.e. guess, just for the heck of it) that it haven't been changed. Back in 0.6.0 when it was changed, Shield spell (which later became 'Protection'), in spite of the description which suggested a meager defense boost, was strangely became very powerful. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ... In fact, it was clearly better than SV for melee, even for shade user! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

And then monster dmg got boosted and people said it suck. On the other hand, I still thing it work just as well as before (it still reduced dmg by quite a lot). It just that SV was becoming more competitive due to the high dmg and the general suckiness of Heavy at the time.

I personally cast one or other depend on situation and mood, or use both if needed, which I continued to do up to this day and haven't felt that anything have change much and it still work fine, which is why I guess that it may not changed at all.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone here; I have no fucking clue how the spell actually work! And I gave up wanting to know since long time ago, so meh... (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Remember when I once said Protection seems to be better than SV for heavy melees, instead of the theoretical disadvantage? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Sometimes, math is wrong. Because its done wrong. Somebody is wrong. Maybe everybody is wrong. STOP DOING IT WRONG.

Meh... You ruined it! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I posted that to bait Tenb to come and correct whoever is wrong (though I don't know if he read this thread), and if lucky enough, reveal how it work in detail if something were change, so that we would know how it actually work! And correct the bug if it was the case.

Remember when I once said Protection seems to be better than SV for heavy melees, instead of the theoretical disadvantage? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Yeah. Still depend on the situation though, just like Shatter! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well I can tell you that my math is right (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)