[X] My Assistant

What is your supportive proficiency?

15.13

Nothing is going to be worthwhile with a proficiency that far below your level.

15.13

That's horribly low. That is why Shield is so weak. Likewise, other key defense magic will be weak, too.

The quickest way to raise Supportive proficiency is to enter Cakefest and cast Shield every single turn until you run out off MP and mana pots, then Flee or battle until you die. Shield gains +0.3 every time I do that. Shadow Veil, Absorb, Spark of Life, and Shield all use Supportive proficiency.

I think elemental proficiency doesn't add a fixed amount to the elemental damage, it's related to the level, something like this:
(A*level prof/level)*(fx(other magic damage bonus))
I remember that because the increase of mobs HP each level is related to the attack damage increase each level without counting the overcharge bonus. (what I mean is, over 70 levels and using the same weapon the % HP I take from mobs is the same, and my overcharge was always 100%)

Now magic damage is increased with the same thing, but with elemental prof instead of overcharge so it's logical that having no elemental proficiency bonus from gear, and discarding the rating bonuses, we should take the same amount of % mob's HP regardless the level with the elemental prof capped with elemental spells.

Oblivious this would be the same with holy/dark divine/forbidden prof respectably.

I don't think your level comes into it, except indirectly. This is what we know about damage:

Attack Rating: 1 + STR + DEX * 0.75 + AGI * 0.25
Magic Rating: 1 + INT * 1.5 + WIS * 0.5

Attack damage calculated from Attack Rating vs Shield Rating
Magic damage calculated from Magic Rating vs Barrier Rating

If you keep your stats balanced, attack rating and magic rating will grow roughly in proportion to your level. Monster HP will also grow at about the same rate. So it makes sense that physical attacks will do the same percentage of damage if you keep using the same weapon. But magic does proportionally more damage as you level up, because your elemental proficiency is increasing too. From what we know about the way the other proficiencies work, it should be something like this:

Magic damage = base damage * (1 + elemental prof / scaling factor)

where "base" damage is what's calculated from your magic rating, and obviously I'm ignoring the random element.

From what we know about the way the other proficiencies work, it should be something like this:
Magic damage = base damage * (1 + elemental prof / scaling factor)
where "base" damage is what's calculated from your magic rating, and obviously I'm ignoring the random element.

I wish we knew what the scaling factor was. If it is 200, elementalist gear is overpowered compared to specific damage type equipment. I'd say it would have to be 300 to be fair. Of course, it is probably underpowered either way in comparison to Destruction staffs. I wonder whether a 100 scaling factor would even be enough to make them a worthwhile trade-off. I don't think so, but I use holy more than most other mages seem to.

If you keep your stats balanced, attack rating and magic rating will grow roughly in proportion to your level. Monster HP will also grow at about the same rate. So it makes sense that physical attacks will do the same percentage of damage if you keep using the same weapon.

Yes, but the weapon it self was leveled up 120 levels and gained ~+15% attack damage multiplier, adding proficiency bonus and title bonus, I'm certain I got ~+20% attack damage multiplier, but I don't see a increase of 20% damage from my attacks, only a slider more and that's probably duo the characteristic of the weapon itself, so I believe mob's HP will also grow at about the same rate, counting attack rating, but also counting the fact we have attack bonus, so some middle value of this bonus is also added.
But true or not, that's not matter with the following matter.

But magic does proportionally more damage as you level up, because your elemental proficiency is increasing too.

It's here I disagree, because it's oblivious adding a few points of elemental proficiency makes a huge difference on magic. Because of that fact, and since we know mob's HP will also grow balanced with attack rating, that would lead to an unbalance of magic damage power to the point you wouldn't need elemental bonus from gear to do a massive damage, this without counting that we also gain magic ratings, in other words a 250 mage would be overpowered even with crappy gear per example.
No, for being balanced, I believe that considering same magic ratings, magic bonus multiplier, and with balanced stats, a level 50 player with 25/50 elemental proficiency should make a elemental damage that take the same % mob's HP, like a 200 level player with 100/200 elemental proficiency would.

From what we know about the way the other proficiencies work, it should be something like this:

Magic damage = base damage * (1 + elemental prof / scaling factor)

where "base" damage is what's calculated from your magic rating, and obviously I'm ignoring the random element.

Yep, I should learn to write formulas better, but essentially that's pretty much what I originally thought (forgot the 1 bah)

Magic damage = base damage * (1 + elemental prof / ((current level * scaling factor))

Okay, ...

A.) *glaze* (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

B.) I've learned that I can defeat a Boss faster with my Staff than with Rapier+PA.

Nerf (x5) - The target is nerfed, decreasing its attack rating, magic rating, evade chance, resist chance, shield rating and barrier rating. Additional points increase the duration of the spell. (Deprecating - Single Target)

Penetrated Armor essentially negates the affected monster's Shield and Barrier Ratings. This results in increased damage from all attacks (physical, magical, spirit). Poison also deals increased damage due to its magical nature.

1. Is nerv as awesome as I think it is?
2. Does it stack with PAs decreased Shield and Barrier Ratings?

3. What is a good bleeding damage at my level?

1. Is nerv as awesome as I think it is?

That's impossible to say because we have no idea how awesome you think it is. If you think it is equal to PA, you are wrong.

2. Does it stack with PAs decreased Shield and Barrier Ratings?

I haven't tested it, but it should.

It's here I disagree, because it's oblivious adding a few points of elemental proficiency makes a huge difference on magic. Because of that fact, and since we know mob's HP will also grow balanced with attack rating, that would lead to an unbalance of magic damage power to the point you wouldn't need elemental bonus from gear to do a massive damage, this without counting that we also gain magic ratings, in other words a 250 mage would be overpowered even with crappy gear per example.
No, for being balanced, I believe that considering same magic ratings, magic bonus multiplier, and with balanced stats, a level 50 player with 25/50 elemental proficiency should make a elemental damage that take the same % mob's HP, like a 200 level player with 100/200 elemental proficiency would.

But I'm pretty sure the amount of damage does increase as you level up. That's what lets me take out five mini-bosses with two tier 2 AoE spells, and allows Boggy to clear a round of Grindfest with just one Thunderstorm. I really don't think your level enters into it. For something like Haste, for example, the speed increase and the duration depend only on proficiency. Why should spell damage be any different?

Also, based on a rather rough test I just did, I estimate that the scaling factor is 200.

But I'm pretty sure the amount of damage does increase as you level up. That's what lets me take out five mini-bosses with two tier 2 AoE spells, and allows Boggy to clear a round of Grindfest with just one Thunderstorm. I really don't think your level enters into it. For something like Haste, for example, the speed increase and the duration depend only on proficiency. Why should spell damage be any different?

I rethink it over and you're right, although the examples you said does not mean anything, I can also clear a round with just one Thunderstorm occasionally, and with the +10% elec rating from the 3rd tier plus the extra elemental proficiency bonus I would have using his gear (which is superior to mine) would allow me to clear all rounds this way, without resists and mini-bosses of course.
Level can't effect at least directly for another reason: it would make elementalist gear weaker as you level you, because of the scaling. Ex:at level 100 you can get +100 elemental proficiency bonus with very good gear, but it's very unlikely to get at level 200 +200 elemental proficiency bonus from gear.

Also, based on a rather rough test I just did, I estimate that the scaling factor is 200.

If Boggyb bothers to do the same test would be nice since he is at very higher level.

Edit: Now I see where I was wrong (as usual), but well that's the reason of these discussions in the first place.

Attack damage calculated from Attack Rating vs Shield Rating
Magic damage calculated from Magic Rating vs Barrier Rating

If the Monters Barrier Rating grows not at same rate that Magic Rating does, but just a little more, that would avoid a unbalance extra magic damage increase rate from elemental proficiency. Case solved.

This post has been edited by cmdct: May 26 2010, 00:27

Should I consider consumable spirit items to be bazaar sway or an investment to a future version the game?

Should I consider consumable spirit items to be bazaar sway or an investment to a future version the game?

Sell them. You'll find more in the future.

Sell them. You'll find more in the future.

Well that's true, but it's the rarest of the three item types. I have six health and mana items in the triple digits but only one of my spirit types has passed 40. I just want to make sure skill aren't on the horizon before I dump my stock of 222 spirit items.

I just want to make sure skill aren't on the horizon before I dump my stock of 222 spirit items.

Tenboro could implement them tomorrow, in 6 months, in 2 years, or never. Only he can say and he wouldn't force himself into a timeline.

Well screw it then, off they go. Going to hold on to greater draughts and potions just to be safe though.

This post has been edited by Anomtai: May 26 2010, 08:34

Nerf Questions:

1) Does it stack with the other debuffs? For example, will Weaken/Bewilder + Nerf lower their damage further?
2) Will Poison do more damage if I cast Nerf along with PA?
3) What exactly does "lower evade/resist chance" mean? Monsters don't have evade/resist stats, right? Is it just a bonus to hit chance when attacking a Nerfed monster?

This post has been edited by Rei-Tenshi: May 26 2010, 08:55

Nerf Questions:
1) Does it stack with the other debuffs? For example, will Weaken/Bewilder + Nerf lower their damage further?

I assume so, but I haven't tested. Do you want me to? (I honestly don't think it would be that much)

2) Will Poison do more damage if I cast Nerf along with PA?

Yes.

3) What exactly does "lower evade/resist chance" mean? Monsters don't have evade/resist stats, right? Is it just a bonus to hit chance when attacking a Nerfed monster?

I assume it reduces your miss chance.

Can I just tell you that Nerf is an awesome spell when fighting bosses/legendaries?

This post has been edited by Boggyb: May 26 2010, 09:18

I assume so, but I haven't tested. Do you want me to? (I honestly don't think it would be that much)

No need, I'll just take your word for it. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Can I just tell you that Nerf is an awesome spell when fighting bosses/legendaries?

Furthering my long-time build of a Warrior Mage (extremely high profs in DualWield, and now growing in Staff, alternating the two styles while wearing mostly Cloth Armor), I first grabbed Fire Spells (since it seems the most monsters are vulnerable to it), then Electrical, then Holy.

Which Offensive Spell Type, or types. do you experienced Mages think I should grab next??

Furthering my long-time build of a Warrior Mage (extremely high profs in DualWield, and now growing in Staff, alternating the two styles while wearing mostly Cloth Armor), I first grabbed Fire Spells (since it seems the most monsters are vulnerable to it), then Electrical, then Holy.

Which Offensive Spell Type, or types. do you experienced Mages think I should grab next??

2nd or 3rd Wind tier for Konata, 2nd or 3rd Cold tier for WB boss.