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What are the best potencies for a destruction staff / elemental mage?

S4P5

not a mage expert, but are we sure s4p5 is actually a panacea?

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as willow already has counter-resit,
So,do willow will not need to use imperil ?
and
will they need less than 0.68 factor?

as willow already has counter-resit,
So,do willow will not need to use imperil ?
and
will they need less than 0.68 factor?

I'm not an expert, but I believe 0.68 factor thing isn't about counterresist but about mitigation decrease, so yea, you still need imperil & 0.68 factor. Correct me if i'm wrong.


[EDIT] Also where is that "proven noumerous times"? Who did testing, and where can i find the results? I looked around forums few days ago and the whole thing appears to come from literally only 1 DwD run and half a GF.

This post has been edited by quitetanky: Mar 7 2018, 20:16

I'm not an expert, but I believe 0.68 factor thing isn't about counterresist but about mitigation decrease, so yea, you still need imperil & 0.68 factor. Correct me if i'm wrong.
[EDIT] Also where is that "proven noumerous times"? Who did testing, and where can i find the results? I looked around forums few days ago and the whole thing appears to come from literally only 1 DwD run and half a GF.

Our archives. Very hard to find anything in there. But no, it's not only from 1 DWD and half a GF.

So you have the choice, in this thread that's called "ask the experts": You can follow the experts' advice, or you can do what you think is best.

as willow already has counter-resit,
So,do willow will not need to use imperil ?
and
will they need less than 0.68 factor?

Imperil doesn't lose the Problem of Resisting.
I think Willow ist the best Staff Type for Using Imperil:
1. It has Counter-Resist.
2. It has the highst Deprecating Proficiencies.

If you don't want to use Imperil, I think Oak is the best Choice:
1. It also has Counter-Resist.
2. It don't has Deprecating Proficiencies, but the highst Supportive Proficiencies.

If you want to change the only Cotton to Phase, you can use Excel to calculate, if you can make more Damage with this Change or not.

Our archives. Very hard to find anything in there. But no, it's not only from 1 DWD and half a GF.

So you have the choice, in this thread that's called "ask the experts": You can follow the experts' advice, or you can do what you think is best.

I've already checked there, and i went through it again now. There is not a single person there who actually tested it. Super just did some basic math, came up with reasonable compromise number once and after that everyone just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. First of all, as i mentioned, its a compromise, and it isn't that specific as everyone believes. In fact, just based on Supers math, here are the thresholds, based on achievable monster max res:
37.5 res -> 0.00
50.0 res -> 0.35
62.5 res -> 0.59
75.0 res -> 0.78

Apparently Super just took avg of last two. Here's the thing: everything over 0.59 would only improve performance against those with 75 res, and since relation is linear, there is no reason to stop on one exact number and the more, the better.

And then there is a bigger question: how do we know Supers math is right if noone tested it:
-How was formula from wiki obtained?
-And, most importantly, does imperil mitigation really stacks additively? Because, based on everything else in this game, i very much doubt it.

This is why I'm asking whether or not someone actually tested it, since i can't find anything while you said:

0.68 is enough for elemental mage. Has been tested countless times.

All i could found is this, and prof is not even the only thing that changed (eco->pene):

[Edit] Okay, not linear, since not all monsters are maxed out, but still monotone, so the point stands.

This post has been edited by quitetanky: Mar 7 2018, 22:14

go melee and you won't have to wonder about prof factors anymore :3

go melee and you won't have to wonder about prof factors anymore :3

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) its kinda opposite: i can't afford to go mage and test it myself so i have to ask here.

And just to hammer the point home, does resistance mitigation apply additively and not multiplicatively like, you know, everything else: PA, BD, anti-evade, anti-parry, counter-resist? Ok, tbh, I haven't tested those too, but afaik wiki and general opinion here is that all those are multiplicative.
I'll stop and won't annoy everyone by discussing this any further.

I'll stop and won't annoy everyone by discussing this any further.

I am quite sure that was not intended by scremaz with his post.

And just to hammer the point home, does resistance mitigation apply additively and not multiplicatively like, you know, everything else: PA, BD, anti-evade, anti-parry, counter-resist?

1. they say it stacks additively, yep.
2. not everything else. ADB, MDB, ACC, Crit damage, MC, Cast speed and something else i'm forgetting apply additively too.

I am quite sure that was not intended by scremaz with his post.

i'm quite sure as well. it was an invitation in sort of counter-tendency. oh, well...

Does infusions add +25% overall damage like DD perk line or does it add +25% to your spell damage bonus?

With my non-imperil build the difference between PSRD and PSRM has a difference of 22 magic score however this number can grow to 250~ depending on how infusions are calculated.

2. not everything else. ADB, MDB, ACC, Crit damage, MC, Cast speed and something else i'm forgetting apply additively too.

Just to be clear I didn't say stacks, i said applied.

I did, hovever, mentioned stacking too, previousely

-And, most importantly, does imperil mitigation really stacks additively? Because, based on everything else in this game, i very much doubt it.

I'll try to clarify that too.
As rule of thumb, if it can go over 100% without breaking the game, it stacks additively.
ADB/MDB are plain numbers, so no surprise there. P/M crit damage as well as EDB are modificators for those numbers, so their additive stacking is fairly obvious. Accuracy is intended to go over 100% to give player anti-evade, so yeah. Mana conservation is multiplicative. Cast speed is only very little bonus, but even if you could go beyond 100%, it wouldn't be broken, since it would still take you some time to cast. I believe only exception is if stat is on the same item.
As for counter-stat/debuff stacking, they appear to be in the gray area. According to decon, overpower stacks multiplicatively, while I know for sure that penetrator prof stacks with counter-res on staff additively (but its same item), while i don't know for sure about stacking with counter-resist from prof. Mitigation decreases from different debuffs also afaik all stack multiplicatively. So unless its accuracy or on the same item, i don't know any examples of additive stacking of debuffs/counter-stats (or, indeed, buffs).
As for applying to an enemy, well, I already said everything in previous post: any other debuff/counter-stat appears to be applied multiplicatively.
Also that last part wasn't meant as a reply, its just while writing these i feel like i'm screaming into the abyss.

This post has been edited by quitetanky: Mar 8 2018, 02:56

-And, most importantly, does imperil mitigation really stacks additively? Because, based on everything else in this game, i very much doubt it.

It does, otherwise this would have resulted in holy/dark 0.695 + imperil with worse result than 1.00, which is not the case.
Mitigations cannot go lower than 0 though, so if the monsters have already low elemental mitigations imperil basically only reduces magical mitigation.

This is also true for counter-resist, you add staff CR to prof CR and that's it.

On the 0.68 thing, that's just a random number, the idea is that around that number you get the best possible results, but there is nothing wrong with playing with 0.65 or 0.7, difference is very very minor.
And since the math checks out and the few tests done verify the validity of the theory there is 0 reason to collect thousand of rounds to verify it.
In two years no one ever found a single reason not to aim for around 0.68 prof, that alone should tell you something.

Obviously if you want to disprove the theory collect the data and let's hear what you have to say, complaining because no one has done more work to validate a theory which has been already validated by math and tests it's pretty silly.

Does infusions add +25% overall damage like DD perk line or does it add +25% to your spell damage bonus?

25% to spell damage bonus.
For what they cost infusions suck for mages.

This post has been edited by Sapo84: Mar 8 2018, 02:36

Can't you scan the monster after imperil to check? Prof factor target makes little if any difference with imperil play style considering how close the trade off is elemental proficiency vs phase ebd. If you truly wanted to min-max then 0.78 for elemental mages in Arena, less for holy/dark cause Konata has less hp than her school girl counterparts.

However in non-imperil play style is where prof factor really matters, even the difference of 1.9 vs 2.0 prof factor is a difference of 10% in overall turns (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/faint.gif)

Thanks for the replies! (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)
1) Formula from wiki does appear to work, and it does stack additively acording to testing from link Sapo84 provided.
2) Yes, using scan it is possible to confirm that resistance reduction from Elemental Status Effects and Imperil applies additively, and using 1) its fair to say same thing is with mitigation from prof. factor.
3) That 0.68 is just a random number is the whole point I originally tried to make (got sidetracked a little), it is not some hard cap (that would be 0.78) and having more is better, while if you have little bit less, you don't have to switch another slot for it.
4) I didn't ask for more tests, I asked for links to existing ones. Thanks again!

This post has been edited by quitetanky: Mar 8 2018, 13:44

Is there a hotkey for the stats page? I'd like to show the more experienced players how my stats are so that they could give me some advice on how I should handle them.

Also, I'm curious about my setup. How is my load-out?

Legendary Arctic Rapier of Slaughter
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/105472630/5c41f07d06
Legendary Cobalt Force Shield of Deflection
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/151535615/d69bf0e9cf
Magnificent Power Helmet of Slaughter
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/131517242/9fef99235a
Legendary Cobalt Power Armor of Warding
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/142866274/0a82549be5
Legendary Onyx Power Gauntlets of Protection
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/138471600/abdf0a5474
Magnificent Amber Power Leggings of Warding
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/109317644/f66feb9afa
Magnificent Power Boots of Warding
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/104249235/dd924b0bfa

You rapier is imo meh, not the best damage, quite low parry and dex. And the IW is really for 1H. Of course it is Arctic and Slaughter, but still.

The shield is okayish. Good block not the best suffix. But useble.

Is there a hotkey for the stats page? I'd like to show the more experienced players how my stats are so that they could give me some advice on how I should handle them.

Also, I'm curious about my setup. How is my load-out?

Legendary Arctic Rapier of Slaughter

Legendary Cobalt Force Shield of Deflection

Magnificent Power Helmet of Slaughter

Legendary Cobalt Power Armor of Warding

Legendary Onyx Power Gauntlets of Protection

Magnificent Amber Power Leggings of Warding

Magnificent Power Boots of Warding

Rapier : maybe you should looking for better replacement and IW it to butcher5/fatality4 or vice versa, then upgrade the parry chance and attack acc

Shield : upgrade the block chance, 25 should be enough

Armors : replace them to be all legendary power, if you need a good clearance time in arena then look for slaughter/balance suffix, if your mitigations are too low (like mine) look for protection/warding suffix. If you have enough time/credits then IW all armors to get juggernaut 4/5. Upgrading power armor will be a great credit sink, so IW max to get juggernaut 4/5 will be enough for 1h+power user like us.

Just my 2cents