[X] My Assistant

I have sent you PMs for a bidkey but maybe they're not getting through. Anyway, I'd like a bidkey please, thanks.

Same, I thought there was some sort of waiting list, backlog or Super is busy but if for any reason it ends up working by leaving a message here might as well try it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Super, can I have a bidkey as well? Tried to PM and MM you, but to no avail.

Same, I thought there was some sort of waiting list, backlog or Super is busy but if for any reason it ends up working by leaving a message here might as well try it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I remember I PM'd like a month ago then a few weeks after still no reply or bid key. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

May I please have a bidkey? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

http://hentaiverse.org/equip/256235598/f9a82dd946
http://hentaiverse.org/equip/172447754/80f4a22dd9

Wow there's actually a Legendary Cobalt Power Armor of Slaughter that is nearly identical to mine, it could be its twin brother! 370 vs 371 PXP0, exact same Condition, exact same Accuracy, exact same Physical Mitigation, similar Burden and Interference, and almost even the exact same item code! Worse defenses but a nearly perfect upgrade to offense.

If I win, I haven't decided if I would actually use it though. I might just leave it as an imaginary forever pretend upgrade if I were ever to reach level 500.

There's also a level 500 ethereal rapier this week that is similar to my own, ADB is just 0.01 points lower. I'm just shill bidding on it...nah I really wanted it...but it would only be worth using for me with a perfect item world, so it would also have likewise have become imaginary forever pretend in storage. I wish it well for its new owner. :)

May I have a bid key please? I also PM-ed a month ago but did not receive a reply.

The Legendary Ethereal Rapier of Slaughter that I was talking about and bidding on was immediately put up for resale at 5m, a markup of 100% ~ 200%. This is by the same person that has been notoriously shill bidding on their own materials for months.

I am not fully against the reselling of materials but when it has extended to very nice equipment, it has gone too far. I think moderators should consider intervening, especially in light of how one or two other players had been treated in the past (?)

With Arkoniusx having recalled his high-price equipments this past week, a frowned-upon action that is actually functionally equivalent to shill bidding, I think it's time we re-evaluate the auction rules.

I am not fully against the reselling of materials but when it has extended to very nice equipment, it has gone too far.

looks like double standards. materials is fine but nice equips not? where to draw the line at this point? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

This is by the same person that has been notoriously shill bidding on their own materials for months.

oh, this is more interesting already.

I think moderators should consider intervening, especially in light of how one or two other players had been treated in the past (?)

what am i missing here? even considering the same circumstances may be appliable - which (sorry to tell you) is not exactly up to users to evaluate, unless they know info we mods don't, hence they want to share with us - i think i know one of them, but not the second. and if it's *that* one, he did other stuff which i don't want to speak again, since i think it's been mentioned enough already.


but long story short, yep - we're discussing stuff

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Oct 25 2020, 11:17

Just clarifying, I think materials and equipment are in a similar boat. It's difficult to draw the line, and difficult to decide what policy should be. I've been thinking about this for a while and have a number of ideas, but I don't know what's best.

I think there's no right and wrong answer for the situation. These are economic and social issues for which various systems have been implemented over history.

One theory says that anything goes, free trade and all that. Yet free trade and the law of supply and demand break down under certain conditions which include: 1) low population, 2) imbalance in wealth (monopolization and steamrolling). Governments may intervene to fix this.

On a more practical level, most real life auctions do attempt to prevent shill bidding, so it's probably a good idea. The person in question hasn't bid on their own materials lately, but bidding on the next person's same materials while selling your own is similar.

There's nothing wrong with getting cheap equipment via auction to sell to your shop. Especially for good equip as you say. If it is good, pay a premium. I want to ask you why didn't you participate in that auction if you valued that equipment so much

Even bidding on your own items is not THAT bad, but a strike should be issued, and a possible ban if abused

There's a ethereal rapier this week that is similar to my own. I'm just shill bidding on it...nah I really wanted it...I wish it well for its new owner.

I did participate but didn't bid as high as I could have, because I wanted the equipment to go to the person who could make the best use of it. I looked forward to seeing it used, not sit in someone's shop. I won the swimsuit so I was greedy enough this week. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I'll reiterate I'm not entirely opposed to what sansvertu did, both for materials and equipment. However the free market principle works both ways. Sansvertu has become notorious. If moderators or auction keepers don't step in, any player has the potential ability to ruin the game for another.

Players can take this matter in our own hands by ganging up on sansvertu. We perform the same tactics, bidding him up and reselling items. It was a joke sort of, but I deliberately hinted at my shill bid as warning to him. I'm suspicious of the 2nd place bid too: x999 suggests a shill bid. Someone else may have already tried to combat sansvertu on that equipment.

One reason shill bids deserve a strong punishment is that they can be difficult to detect. Usually one does not blatantly bid on one's own items but uses a friend or alternate account to do it. A strike is not enough, a single true shill bid is already abuse. However I agree with the principle that the punishment should be as little as possible to achieve the desired result.

I did participate but didn't bid as high as I could have, because I wanted the equipment to go to the person who could make the best use of it. I looked forward to seeing it used, not sit in someone's shop. I won the swimsuit so I was greedy enough this week. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I'll reiterate I'm not entirely opposed to what sansvertu did, both for materials and equipment. However the free market principle works both ways. Sansvertu has become notorious. If moderators or auction keepers don't step in, any player has the potential ability to ruin the game for another.

Players can take this matter in our own hands by ganging up on sansvertu. We perform the same tactics, bidding him up and reselling items. It was a joke sort of, but I deliberately hinted at my shill bid as warning to him. I'm suspicious of the 2nd place bid too: x999 suggests a shill bid. Someone else may have already tried to combat sansvertu on that equipment.

One reason shill bids deserve a strong punishment is that they can be difficult to detect. Usually one does not blatantly bid on one's own items but uses a friend or alternate account to do it. A strike is not enough, a single true shill bid is already abuse. However I agree with the principle that the punishment should be as little as possible to achieve the desired result.

We're still thinking through exactly how to deal with this, but the working proposal is that we'll probably ask Superlatanium to set a few further rules for his auctions (specifically against this kind of shill bidding) and incorporate an exclusion list into his code so that items cannot be auctioned by nor bidded on by specified players.

One of the problems with shill bidding is that there's no definite way to detect people having their friends create false competition for their items, excepting cases where the friend loses the game of chicken and ends up winning it - in which case, if the item goes immediately back to the original seller, it's fairly clear.

But even that isn't perfect - if they just kept it, and tried to resell it themselves next week, they'd have a second chance for free, and the money could be sent back to the original seller without any of us knowing. This can be repeated ad nauseum as long as they've got enough friends, and there's no rule against reselling items they won previously (and I don't think there should be, because it weights the system against anyone ever re-entering equip back into the economy after finding something better - it's not like auctions guarantee profitable resale).

Personally, I don't think letting the community regulate itself is ideal for HV circumstances - despite how small the userbase is, it's still fragmented by language groups, and not everyone follows the drama on the English-speaking forums. But I'm also against overzealous moderation in what's essentially private business. We sticky the auctions because they serve a community benefit, but we can't really threaten to take that away either. That's partly because the auction would still be more community-serving than harmful even without better anti-abuse measures, and partly because Super's not getting anything out of doing this anyway - it's purely a charitable function now - so I can't imagine he'd have much motivation to respond to such an ultimatum (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Just clarifying, I think materials and equipment are in a similar boat. It's difficult to draw the line, and difficult to decide what policy should be. I've been thinking about this for a while and have a number of ideas, but I don't know what's best.

I think there's no right and wrong answer for the situation. These are economic and social issues for which various systems have been implemented over history.

One theory says that anything goes, free trade and all that. Yet free trade and the law of supply and demand break down under certain conditions which include: 1) low population, 2) imbalance in wealth (monopolization and steamrolling). Governments may intervene to fix this.

On a more practical level, most real life auctions do attempt to prevent shill bidding, so it's probably a good idea. The person in question hasn't bid on their own materials lately, but bidding on the next person's same materials while selling your own is similar.

This case is actually a bit more complex. The buyer / reseller has done some very dodgy business on the auctions lately. If you look closely at his trades, most of his materials were bought by someone whose name translates to 'little bird'. That account only traded with this buyer / reseller. This raised some eyebrows, and, well, the little bird will never fly again.

Next to bidding on his own items, it looks like he tried to artificially increase the market value of materials. Using the little bird try to screw us all (flipping us the little bird).

This case is actually a bit more complex. The buyer / reseller has done some very dodgy business on the auctions lately. If you look closely at his trades, most of his materials were bought by someone whose name translates to 'little bird'. That account only traded with this buyer / reseller. This raised some eyebrows, and, well, the little bird will never fly again.

Next to bidding on his own items, it looks like he tried to artificially increase the market value of materials. Using the little bird try to screw us all (flipping us the little bird).

This certainly seems abusive, he deserves whatever punishment he gets

This post has been edited by Visadio: Oct 25 2020, 22:22

We're still thinking through exactly how to deal with this

i always suspected that evil veteran players are plotting against us, naive rookies! all they want is to enslave us, make us mere supplies serfs! they formed a cartel group and became so wealthy that each of them swims in piles of peerless items but to keep others poor they need to suppress the free market! they already faked crucial info on wiki however thanks to sssss2 and logs he posted the truth was revealed. now they want to lynch our boy sansvertu they claim that he abuses the system despite the fact that prices in his shop are reasonable moreover he greatly overpaid for Legendary Savage Shade Breastplate of the Shadowdancer so which one system is he supposedly abusing? their malicious scheme system that one! don't let them deceive you, remember together thanks to Super, god bless his soul we can fight back! screen it before it gets deleted spreed the truth and the most importantly support free market at all cost.

i always suspected that evil veteran players are plotting against us, naive rookies! all they want is to enslave us, make us mere supplies serfs! they formed a cartel group and became so wealthy that each of them swims in piles of peerless items but to keep others poor they need to suppress the free market! they already faked crucial info on wiki however thanks to sssss2 and logs he posted the truth was revealed. now they want to lynch our boy sansvertu they claim that he abuses the system despite the fact that prices in his shop are reasonable moreover he greatly overpaid for Legendary Savage Shade Breastplate of the Shadowdancer so which one system is he supposedly abusing? their malicious scheme system that one! don't let them deceive you, remember together thanks to Super, god bless his soul we can fight back! screen it before it gets deleted spreed the truth and the most importantly support free market at all cost.

sansvertu's collab accounts have been banned, he's being reprimanded in public, his shop has been closed down till further notice, Tenb being notified all of these.

Any further questions?

-conspiracy theory-

(IMG:[i.imgur.com] https://i.imgur.com/LdpqGr6l.jpg)

My collection of refined dust collectors called Peerless says hello. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by decondelite: Oct 26 2020, 08:53

I did participate but didn't bid as high as I could have, because I wanted the equipment to go to the person who could make the best use of it. I looked forward to seeing it used, not sit in someone's shop. I won the swimsuit so I was greedy enough this week. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/heh.gif)

I'll reiterate I'm not entirely opposed to what sansvertu did, both for materials and equipment. However the free market principle works both ways. Sansvertu has become notorious. If moderators or auction keepers don't step in, any player has the potential ability to ruin the game for another.

Players can take this matter in our own hands by ganging up on sansvertu. We perform the same tactics, bidding him up and reselling items. It was a joke sort of, but I deliberately hinted at my shill bid as warning to him. I'm suspicious of the 2nd place bid too: x999 suggests a shill bid. Someone else may have already tried to combat sansvertu on that equipment.

One reason shill bids deserve a strong punishment is that they can be difficult to detect. Usually one does not blatantly bid on one's own items but uses a friend or alternate account to do it. A strike is not enough, a single true shill bid is already abuse. However I agree with the principle that the punishment should be as little as possible to achieve the desired result.

I think that your not having obtained what you had wanted in the bidding was due to your insufficient bid against him/her. In fact I do not like people rising the prices of materials/equipment because as a common f2p casual pleyer I always want to buy items at the lowest price. However, if re-selling is allowed by the organizers of an auction, it's fine because such action doesn't breach any rules.

In your described way how a group of members boost the price of certain items/equipments, I think in an alternative way. Yes the price of them is raised, but for a certain kind of item, there are other players selling them at their own shops or HV Market, and for equipment, we have various pieces to choose from, so it doesn't matter if you could not get them from a certain source. It's like the newly announced Nvidia 30 series graphic cards which are sold at very high price at some sellers', but are still in production and release and sold at lower prices at amazon etc. My second alternate way of thinking, is that it's very common for a player to play a game which even doesn't have team mode(s), with his/her friends, and the player may purchase certain item(s) for the "teammates" if they are unavailable to play. In fact, I once met another HV player at the very beginning level about two months ago in a Tencent QQ grop where HV had not even been mentioned before our first encounting. I generalously gave him a lot of items and several powerful equipment pieces. I think this is an important way how a game becomes popular - combination with social network. Therefore, the accounts you mentioned who "cooperated" with Mr/Mrs. Sas may not belong to that person, but instead perhaps his "teammates". I know it's not allowed here to have secondary/affilliate accounts, but one should make friends with players including you, although we have different opinions on this issue, and introduce friends from other verse(s) here to share the fun.

On topic of the price, I remembered when I started playing HV from the very beginning levels, I saw a post by, perhaps TXX.., sorry I couldn't remember the exact name, but I'm clear it starts with 'T' and this admin ID saied in a thread that the price is decided by the players themselves. In this words, the price is obviously not only decided by sellers, but also by buyers. So as I have mentioned before, you can buy other quip/items from others' stores, and as a result, your choice will pull the price down. So please take advantage of your decision wisely.

I personally don't support admin's operation to close his shop just because of your posts. If the admin team continue to do in this way, even if someone mistyping the amount in HVMarket or Exchange Center, then the player re-sells the residue when the prices gets higher, the player will be banned. This is absolutely unacceptable. I know HV Market has the rule prohibiting boosting prices, but the organizers of some auctions don't. So it's not appropriate to conduct your power beyond its prescribed range, which is what I have followed in my forum manegement at Key, and Asphalt 8 forums at Baidu.

In short, I don't like price boosting from my perspective of a common casual player, but I oppose any official action against them based on my knowledge and understanding on HV. I suggest you should use your decision wisely as a buyer. If more players vote with their decision more wisely, there will eveneually no space for price boosting because nobody will buy from boosters' shops.

I just reviewed my post and fixed some typos.

This post has been edited by ComradeGeneral: Oct 26 2020, 14:45

I personally don't support admin's operation to close his shop just because of your posts.

I assure you that BlueWaterSplash's posts were not a factor in moderation decisions about sansvertu; his actions were independently investigated and he was found to be breaking HentaiVerse rules, not just auction rules. The outcome of that is a matter between him and Tenboro.

The decision to close his shop temporarily is basically a 'time-out'. He is free to trade with players in other ways, but the fact of the matter is that the forums are supposed to be for the whole community, and that the moderation here is expected to curate that in the interest of said community. We do not unduly interfere in private business, except with occasional guidelines or very rarely limits to protect players from outright scams and abusive actions.

The thing you should be taking from that is the forums are a privilege, not a right, and if you want to use them, you must agree to co-exist fairly with other players.

Finally - because I'm not sure it's being understood well enough - what sansvertu was found to be doing was 1) using his own account to bid on his own items through the proxy system, to create fake 'competition' with existing proxy bidders, to try to push them up to their maximum bid and 2) if he accidentally went too far and won the item, he used a second account to outbid his main account - presumably so it wouldn't be too obvious. Without going into too many details, it is my understanding that the second account has not been abused in other ways to benefit his main account.

Finally - because I'm not sure it's being understood well enough - what sansvertu was found to be doing was 1) using his own account to bid on his own items through the proxy system, to create fake 'competition' with existing proxy bidders, to try to push them up to their maximum bid and 2) if he accidentally went too far and won the item, he used a second account to outbid his main account - presumably so it wouldn't be too obvious. Without going into too many details, it is my understanding that the second account has not been abused in other ways to benefit his main account.

You have not posted any clues on San's misbehaviour. You are just repeating what other admin/members have said before. I'm sorry that your words just gives me a feel of repeating and shouting. Based on my admin experience in Baidu forums, you or any admins should post sufficient clues, although such clues are very hard to obtain. I know sharing similar IP address or same MAC is not sufficient because it's possible someone plays HV on the same cafe/library machine or some people belong to the same organization, or in some region IPs are allocated dynamically. The difficulty is indeed on sufficient clues, but you should show them, or your words are invalid.

Sorry I just think your words are just a copy with subjects alternated from the latest admin post. On topic of "using his own account to bid on his own items", I think if his own equipment is not hidden from him from proxy or website UI, he may accidently purchased it. Such mistake should be avioded by improving the system features rather than punishment or to push the response exclusively on users.

I'm sorry for the unpleasure my doubts may bring you, and the disappointment your post has given me. I mean no offense but I personally look forward to seeing the clues, including the information on his cooperate accounts and all related transactions with any talking/consevations impling "they" were collaborating in the concerning auctions, and your reasonings. That's what I have done in my admin career on other forums and I wish you moders to cheer up and give general users like me a clear sight of this incident. Thanks man in advance. Enjoy a good night.

Some typos and grammar mistakes were fixed in my review.

PS: The reason why I'm concerned with this insident is that there are several members in the Baidu forums where I'm the admin play HV. As far as I know, they are legit players. It's very common players help with each other by giving/exchanging items via M-Mail. I know thay seldom participate in auctions because it's more time consuming than simply asking other members privately. What I'm worried about is the possibility that you ban players or their shops based on insufficient/unrelated facts with totally wrong reasonings. I must be responsible to keep my members safe, like a country should keep its overseas citizens safe.

This post has been edited by ComradeGeneral: Oct 26 2020, 15:53

If by "clues", you are asking for evidence, giving out how the evidence was obtained will reveal the methods of how the person was caught.

This is not good information to give out, as it makes it easier for other people to circumvent and get around the rules.

This post has been edited by Firew: Oct 26 2020, 15:56