[X] My Assistant

Just encountered this "oh my god! under 10% penalty!" (yes, I wasn't attentive enough and my case is no case) and all I want to say is - the only beneficiaries of this change is not majority of bidders, but auction sharks - those who monitor market beforehand, make market wise bids early and then monitor it everyday. The whole idea of punishing for bidding hours before the end is inadequate.

If you look at the history logs, the vast majority of bidders benefit from this. I don't know what you classify as "auction sharks".

Everyone has a bit more than 2 days to submit their desired bids and get a discount with no penalty. The ones who lose out are those who are either intentionally sniping, which is rude to other bidders, or those who don't care enough about the items or their final price to pay attention ahead of time - which is also rude to other bidders. If it's something worth fighting over, then it's probably worth considering how much it's actually worth ahead of time. (for important items, hopefully someone would do this anyway; after all, significantly under-bidding is a waste of time, and significantly over-bidding is a waste of money)

I don't get how this is "good" or "justice" to force bidders to follow auction everyday and research every item they might want to buy when there are many other things to do, but if Superlatanium thinks he is bidding supervisor it's more sad and worrisome than rule itself.

You don't have to follow the auction every day - you just need to visit the thread once before the last few hours and submit a bid representing your true valuation of the item, and you'll likely get a discount. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation at all. If you want to ensure you're getting a good deal, then of course feel free to do research, but no one's forcing you to.

If you don't like being incentivized to look at the auction sometime during the first couple days, compare that to how, in the past, everyone who was interested in winning something was forced to hover around during the last hour in order to be able to compete against the prolific snipers and counter-snipers. (and for some, that option didn't exist at all due to work, sleep, etc).

I think that's an improvement!

nothing automatic can be acceptable in any situation.

Guess I better shut the whole thing down (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Unfortunately I had not noticed that it was a couple of hours after the last-24hour time window, and the system refused my Cancel order. (as per Super rules).

I'm open to persuasion here. Canceling bids late and in general *does* create problems; people have complained about it off and on, sometimes related to proxy bid revealing, sometimes not. It can mess up the sequential bid chain, which is especially important nearer to the end. But the 24 hour mark is somewhat arbitrary, and people *can* still edit their posts regardless to invalidate their bid if they haven't revealed a proxy bid. (do note, their prior post will be viewable in the public edit log, for the sake of transparency) Once, it was suggested to completely forbid any bid cancellation at all, but that would probably create more headaches than it would solve.

If anyone has a suggestion about a better way things might be handled, feel free to post it. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other.

If it doesn't work why this even exist?

It certainly does work. Look at old bidtimes and bidlogs. Previously, most bids were placed in the last half or the last third of the auction time. Now, the pattern has reversed - most bids are placed during the first half of the auction.

It's just that some people are rich enough not to care about the penalty, which is unfortunate.

rude to other bidders

Please describe bidding etiquette, I don't get how codes and numbers can be rude.

If you look at the history logs, the vast majority of bidders benefit from this. I don't know what you classify as "auction sharks".

those who monitor market beforehand, make market wise bids early vand then monitor it everyday

Simply put - more experienced bidders with more time. Yes, this tax system benefit one and repress other, of course people adapt to your policy.

Everyone has a bit more than 2 days to submit their desired bids and get a discount with no penalty. The ones who lose out are those who are either intentionally sniping, which is rude to other bidders, or those who don't care enough about the items or their final price to pay attention ahead of time - which is also rude to other bidders.

So those who want to participate, follow to the end and get his lot in one day are rude to others? Really?

If it's something worth fighting over, then it's probably worth considering how much it's actually worth ahead of time. (for important items, hopefully someone would do this anyway; after all, significantly under-bidding is a waste of time, and significantly over-bidding is a waste of money)

But you repeatedly said that price depends on how much bidders are interested in certain item and you can't deny that market widely fluctuates, so what "actual worth" are we talking about?

You don't have to follow the auction every day - you just need to visit the thread once before the last few hours

No, you don't. According to your rules you need to bid before 18 hours to not get taxed

I think 1/4th (~18 hours) is a good separator between those who get discounts and those who get taxed; for someone who's going to bid the most for the item, winning it for at least 1/4th of the time shouldn't be hard, even if it's hotly contested. (and potential winners can try to get even more of a discount by winning it for longer, which they'll probably do at least for ease of mind)

If you don't like being incentivized to look at the auction sometime during the first couple days, compare that to how, in the past, everyone who was interested in winning something was forced to hover around during the last hour in order to be able to compete against the prolific snipers and counter-snipers. (and for some, that option didn't exist at all due to work, sleep, etc).

I think that's an improvement!

It's improvement due to proxy and people still get sniped because that's what auctions are - they end at more or less convenient time.

It certainly does work. Look at old bidtimes and bidlogs. Previously, most bids were placed in the last half or the last third of the auction time. Now, the pattern has reversed - most bids are placed during the first half of the auction.

It's just that some people are rich enough not to care about the penalty, which is unfortunate.

It affects one at the expense of another and doesn't solve sniping.

Noni edit: fixed your quotes

This post has been edited by DJNoni: Apr 23 2018, 18:54

...

This discussion is going on a bit too long, no point in dragging it out any further. To me it is clear that:
1. Benny thinks it's a bad system. For various reasons. With arguments. Which we all read. No need to repeat.
2. Super thinks it's a good system. For various reasons. With arguments. Which we all read. No need to repeat.

Now, how can we settle this? Let's try free market economics:
It's Super's auction. He can do what ever he wants. There is competition. 2 regular other auctions are available. So, if this method scares away buyers, that will scare away sellers, and the whole thing collapses in a matter of weeks. But that didn't happen up to now.

In the free market of WTS, you now have 2 choices: 1. don't shop at Super's auction anymore. or 2. you accept the 'general terms' of using his auction.

Hi! I'm looking to see how much some of my equipment is worth. Here's the most recent one I got from a monster drop:

Legendary Amber Shade Leggings of the Shadowdancer
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/152718695/d24b1c7486

Hi! I'm looking to see how much some of my equipment is worth. Here's the most recent one I got from a monster drop:

Legendary Amber Shade Leggings of the Shadowdancer
https://hentaiverse.org/equip/152718695/d24b1c7486

Use the price check subforum please.

Now, how can we settle this? Let's try free market economics:
It's Super's auction. He can do what ever he wants. There is competition. 2 regular other auctions are available. So, if this method scares away buyers, that will scare away sellers, and the whole thing collapses in a matter of weeks. But that didn't happen up to now.

In the free market of WTS, you now have 2 choices: 1. don't shop at Super's auction anymore. or 2. you accept the 'general terms' of using his auction.

Nah, I'm still surprised that it became so intense. Super obviously knows his stuff better, and even if I think something is silly overall his auction is still reasonable and compensated by his consisted efforts to do it and convenient proxy service, so there is nothing to settle - shots fired, all missed.

From the time this change went live i decided to sell all my things in SakiRaFubuKi auction and i have limited my offers in Superauction to only the things i really wanted, mainly putting the highest bid i was willing to pay in the proxy or by trying to get a first good bid in some cases.

That because i don't really like to have this type of modifier to think of but there are users that like it this way so be it.

This discussion is going on a bit too long, no point in dragging it out any further. To me it is clear that:
1. Benny thinks it's a bad system. For various reasons. With arguments. Which we all read. No need to repeat.
2. Super thinks it's a good system. For various reasons. With arguments. Which we all read. No need to repeat.

Now, how can we settle this? Let's try free market economics:
It's Super's auction. He can do what ever he wants. There is competition. 2 regular other auctions are available. So, if this method scares away buyers, that will scare away sellers, and the whole thing collapses in a matter of weeks. But that didn't happen up to now.

In the free market of WTS, you now have 2 choices: 1. don't shop at Super's auction anymore. or 2. you accept the 'general terms' of using his auction.

Noni, that doesn't work like that, sadly.

As a seller, you don't see any difference between kedama and super. So whatever, you put in either you want, whoever you think will get the best out of your item, or other (maybe irrational) considerations.
But as a bidder, we do not chose who is auctioning the items we want to acquire. And that, my friend, the seller doesn't give a crap about it.

And guess why I've come here all of a sudden while I usually don't read this thread: to check if what I've seen today in super's auction is an error or the unacceptable feature that doesn't do what it claims to do.

I'm talking about this:

winning for 70.5h / 71.6h; -0.4%
winning for 70.5h / 70.6h; -0.4%
winning for 70.9h / 71.1h; -0.4%
winning for 54.5h / 71.1h; -0.4%

And this:

winning for 0.5h / 71.1h; +7.8%
winning for 1.7h / 70.4h; +7.2%
winning for 1.4h / 39.8h; +6.9%
winning for 3.1h / 71.4h; +6.6%
winning for 5.5h / 71.5h; +5.5%
winning for 1.0h / 71.5h; +7.6%
winning for 0.1h / 71.0h; +7.9%

Let me translate both quotes for you: "those who have had the winning bids since the beginning get reduced by next to nothing, and those who don't are charged a very high amount even if they're not exactly sniping, which was the purpose I was claiming it is."

For instance, I am the one who led for 5.5 hours because, genius, I haven't been able to check auctions before this morning. Which is even greater than 5.5 hours because I have been outbid in the meantime.

If it was only that, it'd still be very unpleasant, but fairly acceptable. But no, the issue is worse than this. All those big positive percentage are outpaying the bonuses for those who had the luck of being available on wednesday, by a large amount. I got nothing against making some money in auctions (I don't even earn enough myself), but at that point you're making extra profit on bidders who have absolutely no clue how much they will actually be paying, and who are not necessarily responsible for starting their bids huuuh one day before the end.

In the end, sorry to put it that bluntly, but this system is shit and does more harm than it doesn't solve non-existing issues. "Non-existing" because when people get sniped, it's their fault for not bidding their max right away or at least making sure they'll be available later on to check if they need to bid again. "Doesn't solve" because in the end there's still the "sniping" we're talking about, and as I was saying that wasn't a problem either.

Mind you, I'm not even considering the fact that I'm wasting the margin of one entire week worth of my own auctions for that 5.5% bullshit alone.


TL;DR
I don't appreciate paying up big time for something I haven't done, due to a system that doesn't even fulfil its intended role. Role that isn't even justified itself in the first place.

For instance, I am the one who led for 5.5 hours because, genius, I haven't been able to check auctions before this morning.

it's their fault for not bidding their max right away or at least making sure they'll be available later on to check if they need to bid again.

So you're saying that these are equivalent situations:
-not being able to bid in first 54 hrs
-not being able to check you bid in the last 18 hrs

Also:

"Non-existing" because when people get sniped, it's their fault for not bidding their max right away or at least making sure they'll be available later on to check if they need to bid again.

How can you know how much item is worth in order to bid your max? Finding out the price is one of main functions of open ascending price auction, and your estimation supposed to change based on competition. Or at least that is how it works if nobody else wants to bid when time limit is reached.

Let me translate both quotes for you: "those who have had the winning bids since the beginning get reduced by next to nothing, and those who don't are charged a very high amount even if they're not exactly sniping, which was the purpose I was claiming it is."

Just because noone has time to read details, but has time to complain anyway lemme sum it up: Overall amount of discounts supposed to be equal to overall amount of penalties, while penalties are fixed at the max of 8%. You should also consider that discounts are rounded up to thousands, so percentage is usually very low because of that and the fact that most of bids are early (because the taxing system is totally not doing its job, right?).

For instance, I am the one who led for 5.5 hours because, genius, I haven't been able to check auctions before this morning. Which is even greater than 5.5 hours because I have been outbid in the meantime.

Overall time having winning bid adds up, so you led 5.5hrs exactly.

Also lemme fix that one for you:

If it was only that, it'd still be very unpleasant, but fairly acceptable. But no, the issue is worse than this. All those big positive percentage are outpaying the bonuses for those who had the luck of being available during the first 45-54 hours, by a large amount. I got nothing against making some money in auctions (I don't even earn enough myself), but at that point you're making extra profit on bidders who have absolutely no clue how much they will actually be paying, and who are not necessarily responsible for starting their bids huuuh one day before the end.

Srsly, read rules: you need only 1.5 days of winning to get the max discount, you need at least 18 hours to not get taxed.

This post has been edited by quitetanky: May 26 2018, 23:58

Noni, that doesn't work like that, sadly.

As a seller, you don't see any difference between kedama and super. So whatever, you put in either you want, whoever you think will get the best out of your item, or other (maybe irrational) considerations.
But as a bidder, we do not chose who is auctioning the items we want to acquire. And that, my friend, the seller doesn't give a crap about it.

And guess why I've come here all of a sudden while I usually don't read this thread: to check if what I've seen today in super's auction is an error or the unacceptable feature that doesn't do what it claims to do.

I'm talking about this:

And this:
Let me translate both quotes for you: "those who have had the winning bids since the beginning get reduced by next to nothing, and those who don't are charged a very high amount even if they're not exactly sniping, which was the purpose I was claiming it is."

For instance, I am the one who led for 5.5 hours because, genius, I haven't been able to check auctions before this morning. Which is even greater than 5.5 hours because I have been outbid in the meantime.

If it was only that, it'd still be very unpleasant, but fairly acceptable. But no, the issue is worse than this. All those big positive percentage are outpaying the bonuses for those who had the luck of being available on wednesday, by a large amount. I got nothing against making some money in auctions (I don't even earn enough myself), but at that point you're making extra profit on bidders who have absolutely no clue how much they will actually be paying, and who are not necessarily responsible for starting their bids huuuh one day before the end.

In the end, sorry to put it that bluntly, but this system is shit and does more harm than it doesn't solve non-existing issues. "Non-existing" because when people get sniped, it's their fault for not bidding their max right away or at least making sure they'll be available later on to check if they need to bid again. "Doesn't solve" because in the end there's still the "sniping" we're talking about, and as I was saying that wasn't a problem either.

Mind you, I'm not even considering the fact that I'm wasting the margin of one entire week worth of my own auctions for that 5.5% bullshit alone.
TL;DR
I don't appreciate paying up big time for something I haven't done, due to a system that doesn't even fulfil its intended role. Role that isn't even justified itself in the first place.

Mhhhh... kinda what i have in my mind right now...

Anyway!

Thats how the system works and dont question it... you dont want to be a "piyin".

Srsly, read rules: you need only 1.5 days of winning to get the max discount, you need at least 18 hours to not get taxed.

What???

From Super's auction, you have won:
Legendary Ethereal Club of Slaughter
Base price: 650k
Discount: 3k (70.4h / 71.0h)
= 647k

CoD Paid: 647,000 Credits

So if you have more than 2 days... you get 0.04%... so thats the max right???

How come Supers discounts over the final price nevers read wrong the 10%?

1308k * 90% = 1177k

i prefer a solid price (no discount) rather than a joke of discount:

Before: $10.00
Now: $9.99

Epic. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Wow Petal_Kiss came in for a whopping 98m at the end, which isn't uncommon for him, so all questions of non-paying bidders were irrelevant anyway.

And everyone else can thank Petal_Kiss for their -14.2% discount. Maybe this should be a strategy of the future. When you see a great item for auction, assume Petal_Kiss will win it, and bid on other items hoping for discount.

Under the latest system the discounts and penalties add to zero. So the amount of discount is based on the amount of people who tried to snipe, and how much they were taxed. When one really rich guy bids late and wins, all the early bidders benefit.

Under the latest system the discounts and penalties add to zero. So the amount of discount is based on the amount of people who tried to snipe, and how much they were taxed. When one really rich guy bids late and wins, all the early bidders benefit.

So, under what this post says:

-Early bidders wont have any good discount (nor even 2%) unless a rich bidder came last or try to snipe somethingfrom the auction = This systems make snipering a welcomed activity (which was what it was against or so they say).

-There is no point in early bids if you are looking for a discount = Encourage sniping and last moment bids... Then why not make the auction 30 mins long then? why have to wait 72 hrs for it to end? shorter time better the end result for everyone (kinda).

-What if rich bidders never join the auctions? will the system still work as planned?

Under the latest system the discounts and penalties add to zero. So the amount of discount is based on the amount of people who tried to snipe, and how much they were taxed. When one really rich guy bids late and wins, all the early bidders benefit.

Pretty much like that.
This week, so many items got early bids & many of them worth millions. Against, so few people who bid late (whether they snipe or wander into something considered cheap -like i do-).
TC;DBTE This week; Many 0.4% discounts against few 7.4% penalties. This system still carries out its premise, & i'm not against it.

-There is no point in early bids if you are looking for a discount = Encourage sniping and last moment bids... Then why not make the auction 30 mins long then? why have to wait 72 hrs for it to end? shorter time better the end result for everyone (kinda).

Not all people can be available right on every Wednesday UTC 13/14:00, even for Super and Saki they cannot promise to start the auction sharply on UTC 13/14:00.00, longer auction time allow late comer to join auction, and for people to compete auction price I guess.

Discount is just one of the encouragement for early bidding but surely people should not take it for granted. Penalty is however a must for very late bidding and sniping to be fair. If you cannot join super's auction 36/18 hours before end(end time is always fixed) and you don't want penalty, you surely should aware of high tax charging and don't bid on this week I think.

This post has been edited by Lastwizard05: May 27 2018, 08:57

Are you seriously complaining that the discount is too low?

I'm a big fan of the system. It's really hard for me to be present in the last 30 minutes of auction, and purposly waiting to the last moment gives you an advantage because there is a chance that the competition can't be there at that time.

Proxy bidding helps a lot, but it's even better if less people wait until the last moment. The advantage of bidding late is now countered by a penalty.

Nobody needs to get a bonus, really. Penalties are there to tax the benefits of bidding late, to level the playing field out again. But discount? You know what you are willing to pay, don't you? Just pay the right price.

I strongly suggest to everybody who has a problem with Super's auction system to use another auction, or to start one himself / herself. Let our free market decide.

This post has been edited by DJNoni: May 27 2018, 08:27

I think the real problem is that lattie uses percentage based on the price.
Example, i got 7.8% penalty, the biggest number yeah, but it's out of 160k in total. While somebody else bid earlier than me got 5.5%, out of 3millions. That hurts.
This way, people who bid on expensive items suffer bigger penalty even though they bid earlier or gain more discount/later. I enjoyed the show though.

Maybe it's better to use fixed amount of credits proportionate to time or something & still retain that "total penalty = total discount" thing.

I hate accute numerical activities.

The tax should be percentage based, not fixed. That way it is strategically balanced against the minimum bid increment.

piyin's fault here is that he can only narrowly consider things from his buyer point of view. He is stingy and scrounging even beyond that haha. Like picking up coins from the floor and bargaining with the street vendor. I feel sorry for piyin, maybe he has a hard life so he thinks this way.

Anyway, the point of this system isn't to give us buyers a discount. But that doesn't mean that we buyers should complain, even from a selfish perspective. This system does not necessarily hurt or help us. Nor does it necessarily hurt or help sellers, or the auctioneer.

Tactically, we buyers should try to bid early, but we do so not expecting a discount, but to avoid a tax. This is fine. On the other hand, the tax is not too large, so it's not a bad strategy to bid late as well in some cases.

Mhhhh... kinda what i have in my mind right now...

Anyway!

Thats how the system works and dont question it... you dont want to be a "piyin".
What???
So if you have more than 2 days... you get 0.04%... so thats the max right???

How come Supers discounts over the final price nevers read wrong the 10%?
i prefer a solid price (no discount) rather than a joke of discount:

Before: $10.00
Now: $9.99

Epic. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

So, under what this post says:

-Early bidders wont have any good discount (nor even 2%) unless a rich bidder came last or try to snipe somethingfrom the auction = This systems make snipering a welcomed activity (which was what it was against or so they say).

-There is no point in early bids if you are looking for a discount = Encourage sniping and last moment bids... Then why not make the auction 30 mins long then? why have to wait 72 hrs for it to end? shorter time better the end result for everyone (kinda).

-What if rich bidders never join the auctions? will the system still work as planned?

hey, you, agitator.

i remember a time in which a certain someone sticked too much to the amounts in the example and ended up barking for a 3k discount difference that didn't even exist to begin with. if you don't understand basic math and/or basic logic, no place to whine here.

if you have something to say, say it without recriminating.

and if you still have time to recriminate, a mod posed you a question in a thread you check daily, yet answer is pending for a week. you know what to do. or go write another episode of the FS soap opera, i've been waiting for one month to read it.

hello sire super latanium

if allowed

can i ask of you

to reduce the deadline auction time extension bidding from 15mins utes to 5 or 3 minutes ? thanky ou please

There is no point in early bids if you are looking for a discount = Encourage sniping and last moment bids

Discount was a mistake.
There should be no discount. In fact, tax should start increasing the moment the auction gets posted. Maybe then people will get the hint. Note: this still will not solve the "problem" of he with the largest purse hauling the largest trolley.

Maybe auctions are too frequent? Make them once every two weeks or a 7-day auction once a month. Then people can get their discounts when more sellers decide to make direct offers instead of waiting for the auction and auto-scrapping every other drop they get.

to reduce the deadline auction time extension bidding from 15mins utes to 5 or 3 minutes ?

Seconding this. Three is too short, but 5-10 could work. People still regularly wait until 14:59 in hopes the clock will help them out. Let's just save everyone's time.

This post has been edited by qw3rty67: May 27 2018, 18:39