[X] My Assistant

Yes, pretty much leftover hunter killer in the sewer.

which is bad. i often suggest people with low budgets to hunt for leftovers at auctions - which can still be ok-ish for the average and the starter user, even if meh for the... uh... market?

issary has a point as well.

furthermore, you have to consider that auctions end at saturday for a reason: there's a fair chance people don't work at saturday and they have more time to surf the forum.


i can understand you want to incentivize early bids (your auction, your rules) but at the same time i invite you to reconsider the penalty at later time thing in some way.

Also I can put my final line on but that can make me pay 20m for an equipment that no one else will pay more than 5m.It's hard to caculate values on auction.
Not everyone can check forums at work,punishes on this can be unfair to those with less time on hv.

Why not using proxy bid? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
You can bid whenever you're free and you pay only the minimum increment over the next max bid.

Anyway, adding a small fee for late bidding doesn't sound that great mainly because it's very hard to explain.
If someone bids 3M he expects to pay 3M, not 3.1M.

Absolutely punish sniping.

My suggestion is, as I suggested months ago, to affect bid increases, not bids themselves.
Early bid? Smaller bid increase
Bid on friday and saturday until 2-3 hours before end? Normal bid increase
Late bid? Higher bid increase

Some further rules are fine.

Examples:

Sniping should be punished more than late bidding so:
If the item has no bids, starting bid should stay the same in all cases. No sniping or overbid so it's okay.

The higher bid increase suggested some lines above should NOT apply anymore if the item gets extended overtime more than once (that means that the sniper got fought back), BUT bidding "14 minutes and half" after the last extension should be punished as it is annoying and time wasting on purpose.


My numbers suggestions more in detail:

Thursday: bid increases are halved (1.5% for mats, 15k/25k/1.5% for items)
Friday and Saturday until the last 3 hours: normal bid increases
3 hours to 1 hour from end: bid increases are 20% higher (3.6%, 36k/60k/3.6%)
1 hour to 15 minutes: bid increases are 50% higher (4.5%, 45k/75k/4.5%)
last 15 minutes: bid increases are doubled (6%, 60k/100k/6%)

Overtime
0-5 min after last bid: normal bid increases
5-10 min after last bid: bid increases are 50% higher
11-15 min after last bid: bid increases are doubled

This post has been edited by End Of All Hope: Oct 19 2017, 12:46

Only use time valuing won't stop snipe,it is providing discount to those who can check thread lots times a day and won't push a lot people without that much time to put final price on at first(because everyone want to save credits).Others will try to get some bid-time-value at lower price and wait until last time.
People do that you called snipes because they neither want to lost the item(bid earlier and be overbid by other at last time)nor want to over pay too much if their final bid may be way higher than any others,after all there are no standard price for equips on auction.
Either you put out a huge encourage on this or use some really smart ways to count,or I'don't think you can change it a lot.

Or you can just think about real world auction.Their'll be no more than 30 minutes for bid,and a long exhibition time before it(through sending auction notice to possible bidders or something like that).Imagine those times before last hour as an exhibition time(even make it a real exhibition time)(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why not using proxy bid? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
You can bid whenever you're free and you pay only the minimum increment over the next max bid.

Anyway, adding a small fee for late bidding doesn't sound that great mainly because it's very hard to explain.
If someone bids 3M he expects to pay 3M, not 3.1M.

Cause I'm neither know an item's value at first and never change nor rich enough to put a bid high enough to ignore it (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) .manully bid gives me considering time (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Absolutely punish sniping.

My suggestion is, as I suggested months ago, to affect bid increases, not bids themselves.
Early bid? Smaller bid increase
Bid on friday and saturday until 2-3 hours before end? Normal bid increase
Late bid? Higher bid increase

Vote for this

Overtime
0-5 min after last bid: normal bid increases
5-10 min after last bid: bid increases are 50% higher
11-15 min after last bid: bid increases are doubled

once i had to bid on the last one or two minutes of extended time because i didn't see the last bid and the other bidder didn't mind about pressing the "update" button. should i be punished with double increasing? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

once i had to bid on the last one or two minutes of extended time because i didn't see the last bid and the other bidder didn't mind about pressing the "update" button. should i be punished with double increasing? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Or just cut it to 10 min (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

once i had to bid on the last one or two minutes of extended time because i didn't see the last bid and the other bidder didn't mind about pressing the "update" button. should i be punished with double increasing? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

There is no way to discern a distraction from a dick move without making rules too complicated.
It's better to punish such behaviours...
After all the auction end should be the moment when you pay attention for a little bit.
If you punish people for being late they will hurry therefore the timespan needing your attention will decrease.

Or you can just think about real world auction.Their'll be no more than 30 minutes for bid,and a long exhibition time before it(through sending auction notice to possible bidders or something like that).Imagine those times before last hour as an exhibition time(even make it a real exhibition time)(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I mean it's ok to punish those bid in last minute,but punish those bid in last hour can be meaningless

I mean it's ok to punish those bid in last minute,but punish those bid in last hour can be meaningless

Isn't it nearly same .
That's not a good argument.As 1 hour would not reduce snipping.
I think 1 hour is not enough . it should be much larger window. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(Why you wait for last hour to bid when you could bid for more then 2 days)

This post has been edited by ALL_MIGHT: Oct 19 2017, 14:21

Isn't it nearly same .
That's not a good argument.As 1 hour would not reduce snipping.
I think 1 hour is not enough . it should be much larger window. (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(Why you wait for last hour to bid when you could bid for more then 2 days)

Because so I don't have to check forums alot for more than 2 days.Not everyone have plenty of time to check thread many times a day.
I don't like snipping cause it'll cost me more time,but your solution is……cost even more time than that.

@Super
Can you code in such a way that along with countdown timer a % charge also mentioned. and this % also increases with time but very slowly.
like it is 0% on start and 10% at last minute.

and you can increase it from 0% 10% by very little amounts with time.By that way this % would also be dynamic , and it would be incentive to everyone to bid early.and this mount would belong to you as it would replace the current flat 10% charge(sorry but this method would decrease your earnings).
(you can trace it for every bid by coding that % gets calculated with time stamp)

It is just a proposal and can be amended and improved as per consensus by community.

you and also make it variate from 0% to 15% that way your overall income also would not get affected and it would also incentivize people to bid early.
(PS:- and this % amount would be taken from buyer amount and not seller. that way earlier Bid will be cheaper and act as incentive.)

What do you think about this method?

(Sorry , and ignore it , if it is too big of a hurdle to code in this way)

This post has been edited by ALL_MIGHT: Oct 19 2017, 18:15

Thanks for the feedback.

Until bids are anonymous it doesn't solve the problem of " (early bidding) ... informs all other bidders of your serious intent to win the item, and gives them all time to see it and think and bid against you. " However, this arrangement is welcome to disincentivise the initial bids in overtime (which is very bad faith imo). The problem isn't even that the above problem occurs, it's the perceived risk of it happening.

That's the whole point though: to get everyone to show their intent in a timely manner so they can fight it out with each other quickly rather than waiting until the last few minutes.

Showing one's serious intent to try for an item early (once you decide you want it) is probably the best example of good-faith bidding, in contrast to intentional procrastinating. People might not like being encouraged to show their hand early, but one's competitors will be feeling the same thing, hopefully leading to most items being resolved within the first couple days rather than during the last 15 minutes.

Rewards earlier bidders is good but punish low-bid-time bidders is kind of…… Just in case,what if I don't have many time to check auctions?Like I've check auction twice a day or only once at night and overbid an item at that time,after my bid a player with lots of time on forums overbid it and he'll have much longer bid time.I can get any thing I want with about 30 minutes a week at Sat in each auction in past,but now I have to check it much more often if I don't want to pay that *sniper* fee.

At least 3 options:

• Whenever you realize you want the item, submit a proxy bid for the amount you value it at. Either you'll win the item at a good discount (not only the -8%, but also the difference between your max bid and the 2nd highest bid), or someone else will have bid higher, leaving you no worse off.
• If someone doesn't want to proxy bid for some reason, they can post a manual bid within the first day or two, an amount close to what they value it at. Similar situation to the above, except that since you aren't proxy bidding, you'll lose out on the difference between the (theoretical) 2nd highest bid and your bid.
• Have someone else do it for you

I don't expect people to check the forums constantly. All they have to do is submit a true proxy bid within the first day or day and a half, and they'll all get the full discount (or someone else will bid higher). You don't have to be on all the time, you just have to be on in advance of the end time.

Many online auctions only operate with proxy bids; when a proxy bid mechanism exists, "manual" bids don't make so much sense, since they're so inefficient for the bidders. (but people are used to the structure of using the forum and posting bids manually, unfortunately) I think everyone with a habit of proxy bidding will find this a very easy source of discounts, no matter how often they're online.

Also I can put my final line on but that can make me pay 20m for an equipment that no one else will pay more than 5m.

You mean, you value the item at 20m, and everyone else values the item at 5m or less? Sure, just proxy bid 20m in the first 36 hours, and then you win the item at 5m (+ increment) (- full discount) = 4.7m or so.

which is bad. i often suggest people with low budgets to hunt for leftovers at auctions - which can still be ok-ish for the average and the starter user, even if meh for the... uh... market?

There's nothing stopping people from bidding 50k or 80k on items (or multiple items) in advance. (though for average beginner-quality gear, shops are a better choice)

furthermore, you have to consider that auctions end at saturday for a reason: there's a fair chance people don't work at saturday and they have more time to surf the forum.
i can understand you want to incentivize early bids (your auction, your rules) but at the same time i invite you to reconsider the penalty at later time thing in some way.

People shouldn't be expected to be online most of the time, but they can at least stick their head in at some time before the last few hours, and if they're seriously interested in anything, submit a proxy bid.

Absolutely punish sniping.

My suggestion is, as I suggested months ago, to affect bid increases, not bids themselves.

Unfortunately, the snipers are quite often willing to push the price a whole lot higher, especially on high-value items, which are the most important but are rarely resolved until the snipers come in:
(sum graphs)
They may well frequently bid up and proceed to win, and be no worse off, to the annoyance of everyone else.



Under the Bid Times for the past 3 auctions, you guys might take a look at the "Time-Based Price Multipliers" graphic, and you'll probably see a trend: there's a pretty clear dividing line between those who bid when they can during the auction length, and those who first bid only in the last few hours or minutes. Many already start bidding early enough, it's not hard. Like Sapo said, the hard part would be getting people to understand it (and many aren't great at English).

and you can increase it from 0% 10% by very little amounts with time.By that way this % would also be dynamic , and it would be incentive to everyone to bid early.and this mount would belong to you as it would replace the current flat 10% charge(sorry but this method would decrease your earnings).
(you can trace it for every bid by coding that % gets calculated with time stamp)

That's the general idea of the "Time-Based Price Multipliers" graphic.

Proxy can solve what I said but I'm still kind of afraid that proxy can make it easier for those who doesn't want the item but just like to push the price......

@issary yes proxy does just that, but its a nice tool anyway.
and i naturally want to bid as late as possible up to my set maximum, so i dont raise the price when i dont need to, While there is still ton of time. so im curious how these new rules turn out.

I'm still wondering about the final rule(or currently working rule).How many discount/tax would been given and how it works? (IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Someone who bids at the last minute and accumulates no winning time will be on the hook for the full charge of 8%. Anyone who is winning an item for at least half of the auction duration will receive the full discount. Someone winning an item for 1/4th of the auction duration won't be penalized, but won't get a discount either.

The discount amount between 1/2 and 1/4th is a linear function, as is the penalty between 1/4th and 0.

I think 1/4th (~18 hours) is a good separator between those who get discounts and those who get taxed; for someone who's going to bid the most for the item, winning it for at least 1/4th of the time shouldn't be hard, even if it's hotly contested. (and potential winners can try to get even more of a discount by winning it for longer, which they'll probably do at least for ease of mind)

I want to make it so that each auction is revenue-neutral, rather than (for instance) manually adjusting percentages and deadlines as behaviors change. So while the maximum penalty will stay at 8% (which only the rudest bidders are likely to incur), the maximum discount will vary depending on how much sniping there is. I can only guess, but since people will probably quickly adjust their behavior to avoid sniping now that the rule is in place, the maximum discount may well end up being pretty low compared to 8%, since there probably won't be much revenue to take from the snipers.

(Which would be a good thing - it would be great if everyone bids before the end and there's no need for any penalties or discounts. A new equilibrium the same as before but without people sniping would be ideal)

It might end up like:

Duration winning | End price
100% | -2% (Discount)
50% | -2% (Discount)
40% | -1.2% (Discount)
30% | -0.4% (Discount)
25% | 0 (Same as end price)
20% | +1.6% (Tax)
15% | +3.2% (Tax)
10% | +4.8% (Tax)
5% | +6.4% (Tax)
0% | +8% (Tax)

That's the current plan. Soon (before Friday) I'll integrate the info for each bidder next to items on the forum, and onto the bid times page.

The specifics aren't incredibly simple, but the general idea is. Bid early, get discount. Bid a while before the end, no penalty. Intentionally wait until the very end, high penalty.

Maybe I'm taking this all a bit too seriously but I think a solid system with positive incentives for everyone coordinating is worth working for.

This post has been edited by Superlatanium: Oct 26 2017, 09:15

(IMG:[invalid] style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
it looks good.
Lets see how it plays out

It might end up like:

Duration winning | End price
100% | -2% (Discount)
50% | -2% (Discount)
40% | -1.2% (Discount)

Oh, it was -8% on the web system when I bid Mat23, and you changed the rule during the auction because it may make you deficit.
Cancel my bid please.

Oh, it was -8% on the web system when I bid Mat23, and you changed the rule during the auction because it may make you deficit.

most likely because he was still thinking about the exact amounts. and even if we're speaking about credits and i myself think he may be overzealous, i still think he's more than worth our trust and i'm curious enough to see the results he'll provide (which may or may not provide a benefit for the community, but we'll know it only at the end).


if you want to cancel your bid, feel free. but don't use such reasons.